Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Shooting and Hunting => Topic started by: JW_Halverson on November 06, 2015, 05:47:24 pm
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Some of you have read my post about the area I have scouted intensively and the poachers setting up bait and treestands. I got some good advice that nicely told me to quit whining like a mosquito in heat and move on. Thank you.
I did. Yesterday morning I was up long before the sun and off to the woods. I passed thru the poacher's bait stations and paused to take a leak on all three. Good strong coffee is inspirational! I continued on at least another half mile west along the ridgeline and found a great saddle I had not seen before. The draws that the saddle connected along this ridgeline were very heavily forested and after opening weekend, likely holding deer hiding out from the Orange Brigade. I moved from tree to tree looking for the best coverage/field of fire and kicked up a flock of sharptailed grouse. Sharpies are common in western South Dakota, but as a prairie bird! Fortunately, I had done more than relieve the bladder when I passed those baited treestands, or I'da had to jettison my shorts!
There was no movement on the saddle for two hours and the wind was up and blowing good. I moved off the ridgeline and down into the trees where the wind would disguise my movements. I worked down the ridgeline, stopping to rattle a smallish pair of whitetail antlers at every likely spot. Sure enough, the second set up gave an opportunity. Out of the corner of my eye, I spotted a bit of greyish brown ghosting thru the doghair pines. I was too busy counting tines and the opportunity passed without me taking up the slack. Spent the rest of the day alternating between "You idiot!" and "Too early in the season to not be picky."
Anywhich....I kept moving, eventually dropping into the valley and going up the next ridgeline where I found a large meadow at the top. Radiating out from this meadow is one finger ridge after another, between finger ridges are draws and shallow bowls of varying densities of pines and quakies. I worked a lot of them before the day was over and probably covered a good 9 miles of back and forth wandering. I kicked up plenty of does and fawns, but not a lot of bucks.
In a few areas I saw scrapes. Sometimes just one in a random place, others spaced out along a trail - one after another. However, none of the scrapes were much larger than a dinner plate, except one. And at no time did I find a rub tree from this year. What few rubs I found (three total all day) were last years or older.
Are these just younger deer or less dominant bucks making such small, weak scrapes? Or is this early in the season where they have not really worked long on the projects?
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Your assumptions are pretty much right I think.A scrape will get larger with more visits and to me the bigger bucks pick on bigger trees.You gotta sit still,sit still,sit still.Randomly stealth hunting against them usually turns out bad for me[they have far superior eyesight and nose]as you saying you chased up does and fawns.I guarantee you they warned any bucks in the area too.Unless you see one bedded down now and put the sneak on em wind being to your favor or getting him interested in your rattling to come to you.Finding where they are bedded down in the morning and knowing where they want to feed and being on an ambush point between them works for me.My route does not spook them from their bed when going to sit.It's a lot of work but fun when it all comes together.Checking on those scrapes to see if they are being visited helps.Doing that in the afternoon after they've eaten.Usually I don't sit in the same stand more than once.Even though I think and did'nt see any deer spooked they still know something strange has been there.In otherwords they are watching me when I don't see them....lol.
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Yeah, that sitting still thing is almost impossible for me. It works later in the day after I have tramped many miles up and down the ridges. If I am tired, I can handle it for a while.
I have now been 3 weeks without seeing the big 5x5 buck in the area I have my cameras. And today as I was stalking slowly thru the trees I saw something white on the side of a pine. When I got close, I saw it was an intact and filled scrotum from a whitetail buck. There was a gutpile 10 yds farther down the hill. Best I can guess is that the buck had shinnied up the tree to hide during the day and when he slid down after dark, his sack got caught on a broken branch and was torn off. He was so distraught and panic ridden he literally crapped his guts out. Not saying that is exactly what happened, just my best guess.
I saw a few does today. By moving very slowly up a ridge and over, I could glass the treeline ahead every few steps. When I saw does, I copped a squat close to a tree and rattled a pair of basket rack 4x4 whitetail antlers. The gals didn't seem to be impressed and didn't move in to investigate and no bucks showed up either. Later in the afternoon I was rattling next to a fairly large scrape with 6 sapling pine trees in sight that had been worked into a frenzy. The wind had died down to almost nothing and I stretched my ears for any sound at all. I heard a deer walk behind me, but never got a chance to peek. Probably a doe. When I got up to leave, I bumped two bucks just 50 yds away. They were standing in a thick clump of pines. Had I sat tighter, they would have probably stepped into the clear for a shot. Yeah, well, it's early, right? I still have until the end of the month.
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You got some real a$$holes your dealing with there.To be out there experiencing the whole deal is what makes the memories.You can just imagine the way it was back when a person had to hunt to eat.Countless woods knowledge acquired.It helps to get lucky though too....lol.If your seeing some like described you'll get your chance this year.At least to plant an arrow in the toooolies anyway like me.
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You are right, Ed. I paid for the ticket, I am here for the whole ride. That means enjoying all of it, whether I take meat home or not.
The other day I counted 9 species of birds in the three trees right in front of me, including a rare subspecies of junco only found in the Black Hills of South Dakota. I found a super-duper cool rock today and toted that 9 lbs of limestone for 4.5 miles while I hunted. I found a 10x8 cave under a limestone rock that would make a great emergency shelter and spent 15 minutes gathering ultra high quality tinder, small sticks, dry firewood, and some pitch pine stump material for that late muzzleloading season emergency. I left some strike-anywhere matches and a note for anyone that finds the spot that they are welcome to the firewood, but please replace it in case someone gets caught out here in bad weather and needs it. I watched some clouds.
Yeah, I paid for the whole ride, I am taking the whole ride!
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Very well done Sir ! That's what it's all about. Bob
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Yea buddy.That's thinking ahead.Sounds like you got a pretty decent place to hunt there.You sure you had time to hunt....lol.Just kidding.I have friends that go elk hunting every year to Utah,Wyoming,& Colorado.A nephew who just shot a 74" moose in Alaska & one thing I'm over looking here is the difference between that country and what I hunt here.Here it's perfect for whitetail deer.Close hunting.Not too far to walk.It's a lot more wide open and rangey out west by you.The elk travel a lot farther in a day then the whitetail do here.Following bulls around to ambush them is a lot more work than deer hunting here.Someday I might try it.They keep pestering me to go.If you get to keep hunting the area your at there that'll help alot to zero in on a deer I would think over the years.It can be different from year to year so prescouting the area helps.I don't use cameras so what comes by is what it is.You got muley,blacktail,and whitetail there I'm assuming.Maybe a transition area between them.I've heard they will interbreed.Don't know if it's true.You have to walk quite aways to get into them?Then maybe a portable tree stand might work.Making natural ground blinds.I'm sure you've contemplated about everything.Got some predators?I'd love to get a shot at a bobcat here.Need another quiver....lol.Heard the meat is pretty darn good too.
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Rubs can be a real mystery. It seems to be the same places year to year but it can be very concentrated. I think deer vary in their behavior a great deal from area to area. A good rub line that is used year to year seems to be one of the best tactics for bucks where I hunt. Another area I hunt has the same type of area and perpetual rub line area and it has never been productive for anyone that hunts the area. Hard to figure but doing what is productive in an area is where its at and figuring it out is the challenge. As far as scrapes go big and active pay off.
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Prospected yesterday on a ridgeline I had hunted turkeys long ago. There were lots of turkeys and I had no experience, consequently I moved to other places blaming the birds for being "unhuntable". Well, there are still turkeys there, loads of scratching and crapping going on there.
Also found a great scrapeline there....fairly large scrapes, but all the trees that were rubbed were inch or smaller in diameter. I sat and rattled for an hour before sunset. Nothin'.
I got back to the vehicle just after legal sunset, but we can hunt until 30 minutes after legal sunset. As I drove off, two does and three bucks ran across the road in front of me. I hopped out and ran into the trees, took a knee and started rattling. I dropped the antlers and shouldered the gun. The last one into the trees was the largest and he stood in the shadows. He dainty stepped out into the clear looking my direction. He was 30 yds away and perfectly in line with the wind carrying my sweaty scent down to him. I willed him to turn and he did. Perfect broadside. My heart was hammering and my breathing made the crosshairs of the rifle wobble. But this buck was so close, the crosshairs never wobbled out of the kill zone. I slipped off the safety and took up what little slack the Remmy 700 had. I took a deep breath ("to steady my nerves", for all you Escanaba in Da Moonlight fans) and eased the safety back on. I slowly let the rifle down and watched the young buck watch me.
1) I did not stalk him, I did not find him on my own.
2) I was 20 yds from the road and my vehicle.
3) My blaze orange was in the Jeep.
4) This didn't fit my definitions of 'fair chase'. Driving and shooting are not hunting to me.
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Now that is called integrity, good for you JW.
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Now that is called integrity, good for you JW.
....and his rack wasn't all that big. You know, been called out on transparency and all that.
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Glad to hear you didn't let those poachers ruin your season. It certainly sounds like you're putting the work in. I suspect a payoff ahead.
I remember my first year I was allowed to hunt without supervision, at 14. I was set up 50 yds from the interstate with my back to it. I heard what I thought was semi's jake breaks at first, but after a second my brain realized the sound didn't quite match. Sure enough a really wide 4x4 had crept in behind me. 30 yard shot with a tree to rest on was an easy shot even for a green horn. I clicked of the safety, held my breath, and ...Wait what was that yellow streak moving beyond the deer?!?! It was a school bus on the highway. I hadn't noticed the the traffic until the yellow caught my eye. No buck is worth that risk. After a solid minute of mexican standoff, snort.. snort.. wheeze & he was gone. I was pretty bummed. Didn't see anything else that day. In fact I think that was one of the few years I didn't fill a tag all season. Loading up at the truck at the days end I told my dad what had happened. He said I did the right thing. It was highly unlikely that a tragedy would have occurred had I taken the shot, but it could have. It's better to question on passing a shot than wishing/knowing you hadn't. After we got back to the house, I had overheard him talking to a few of our fellow sportsman sharing the day's events. I heard him relay my story to several people with pride in his words. He didn't even get that excited when describing his own harvests. That buck would have been my first and bigger than any he had killed at that point. To this day I think he was more impressed by the one shot I didn't take than the countless perfect ones I've made since.
Good job on listening to the little voice in your head that says "Wait... this is no good." A lot of hunters have a hard time hearing it, or flat out ignore it.
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Well done JDub - I'd be honored to share a Campfire with You any day ! Bob
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In a world full of lousy Heros, John, I appreciate your authenticity. As my body begins to show wear I am left with the unavoidable notion that we are called to be role models. Not for the purpose of being seen or recognized, but because... Dare we leave that space filled with Hollywood trash?!?
The noble rarely speak of their beliefs. The wise are frequently silent. The strong often quiet. Yet to spread our values some self promotion must happen.
I applaud any morally sound person who selflessly spreads wisdom and ethics while incidentally involving his own story. I will shake your hand if you do that with tact, and I'll buy your book if you make me smile while doing it.
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Well done JDub - I'd be honored to share a Campfire with You any day ! Bob
Well you better bring the venison steaks, cuz the way it is going mine may have to have Goodyear treadmarks on it!
Scott, there are some rolemodels I have found in this user group and plenty of 'em are a good bit younger than me.
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Well today I shoulda stayed in bed. My dog did.
Strong gusting winds today, I so planned on spot and stalk in heavy timber. The movement of the trees would disguise my movement. A cold front moved in and the rut is starting to gear up. Good, right? Wrong-oh, moosebreath!
I went to a high meadow I call "Wagonwheel". It is atop a ridgeline and has small draws and mini-ridgelines radiating out from the central meadow. I figured this would allow me to pick a draw or two where the wind was in my face. Wind to cover my movement and the sound of my footsteps, wind to blow my scent away from the deer, I was golden, right? Wrong-oh, bison-buttocks!
EVERY choice I made was second guessed (gust?) by the wind. It would swirl around and blow from behind, pushing my scent up the deer's noses like a stink bomb of danger. I blew more deer out of the woods ahead of me than I have seen in years. It was like a field of waving white tails saying bye bye sucker! Time after time, I would stop, climb back up to the meadow and start down another draw with the wind in my face, only to have it switch yet again.
On flat ground, wind blows fairly straight, but the Black Hills are a series of irregular ridges similar to the ridges of your fingerprint. As wind blows across, it catches on the tops and swirls up and down the slopes in wild and unpredictable ways.
About 2:30, my phone starts vibrating and it is the boss. Tonite's shift is open because a coworker called in sick. He apologizes for calling me, knows I am locked in an epic struggle to feed myself for the winter, but can I come in. When the going gets tough, the tough get going, right? A bad day of hunting is better than a good day of working? Wrong-oh, fishlips!
This was the excuse I was hoping for and I headed for the Jeep at a dogtrot, showered at home, fed the dog, played with her for a while, and headed in to work. I got 18 days of season left, after all.
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Well JW ,you should be in good shape after this if nothing else. :)
Pappy
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JW Are your finger ridges wooded. Because here in WV. they all are. Through the years. Me and friends have killed umteen mature bucks off down fingher ridges.
Here you'll have a up finger ridge and a down finger ridge. You can tell by which way the rubs are pointed. MORNING UP RIDGES LOOK UP SEE SHINNY RUBS. YOU HAVE TO LOOK DOWN TO SEE SHINNY DOWN RUBS.
You hunt evenings.
For a couple reasons. All mature mountain bucks. Bed above and between the up and down finger ridges below the ridge top. SO THEY CAN HOP OVER EITHER FINGER RIDGE OR OVER THE TOP IF NEEDED. There close enough to excape over either 3.
Plus evenings natural therms come down. So the winter before I scout out every down ridge. You have to set up a site far enough up the down ridge. So he'll get to you in the day light. Use'lly about 75 to 80% up towards the top.
By winter mature bucks have went back to being left alone like in SEPT, OCT. before the ruts gets involed. Closer to the rut less this works. When the bucks start bedding close to the doe's waiting on that first doe to come in heat.
So I go and scout in the WINTERS snow. Checking above all down ridges to if find buck beds. Look there,there you'll find them.
So I know how close I can get up the down ridge to the bedded buck. As close as I can. SO HE'LL GET TO ME IN THE DAY LIGHT.
And if you stay undetedted. Went far enough up the ridge. I pross you I had dozzens of mature bucks. SET UP WITH MY BACK TO THE ON COMEING BUCK. I let him pass he's only worryed about whats below him. He knows it's safe behind him.
NICE 10,15 YARD QUARTERING SHOT.
I've arrowed a dozzen like this. And gun killed another dozzen more. And friends have killed as many.
Granddadys probley scrarching and shakeing his head at me for telling you'all this.
My granddady was a gobbler hunter his whole like. As a kid growing up I went to a lot of turkey camps. Old timers then all hunted from turkey camps. He hunted a guy in NC,SC boarder at a place called dark corner.
Granddadys friend own 32,000 acers. Grandady had 312 spring gobblers in 92 straight springs. Land his friend had 388 fall and spring hunting. I'd been to 8 or 10 of his turkey camps through the years.
I guess I was 17,18 he throw me a tape. It was a tape his brother made in the 70's. His brother had more racks that I've ever seen to then period. He killed the all just like this.
I still have that tape. Of his way of hunting down finger ridges. Through the years I've refinded it to my verson. But basic the same.
Give it a try what you got to lose but your time.
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Please explain to the uninformed, that would be me, what a finger ridge is please?
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Please explain to the uninformed, that would be me, what a finger ridge is please?
Ok, you know what a ridgeline is, right? Along those ridgelines, smaller ridges fall away to the sides with a ravine or shallow bowl on either side. Those are finger ridges.
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JW here those small scrapes are 1 boundry scrapes from young 1 ,2 year old bucks. Last year just before the rut doe's run that years buck fawn away stops inbreeding. He has to go find his new click. Very seldom is there room where he's ran away from.
This is why so many 1 1/2's get shot every year.
Now a year later he's moved on. Found his own little peice of land where he's not bullyed around to much. He's made boundry scpapes of his new home range. Ruts coming he knows he surposed to do something he just dos'nt know what.
So he go's back to his borndry area and makes more SMALL breeding scrapes. Small plate size scrape's. He makes these when he see's and smells other scrapes made by other bucks. Like I said he knows he's sure pose to do some thing.
If you covered that much land saw only 3 small rubs from last year. Your either scouting the wrong area of or areas. And saw no sign post rubs FROM LAST RUT AND THIS YEARS RUT.
If your a buck hunter like me I'd move on. When I go to a new place I scout in the winter and if theirs mature bucks there. The leave sign from last years rut. If I don't find those 3 foot mateing rubs and those big shinny sign post rubs.
I DON'T THINK TWICE ABOUT MOVEING ON. I can thing of 4 farms through the years I had total hunting rights after scotuing it never hunted it.
The area where you saw these plate size scrape's were likly these 1 1/2 bucks.
Mature bucks not your 2 1/2 and 3 1/2's but say 4,5,6,year old bucks don't even make scrapes. O they work scrapes made by other bucks. Just make them into their breeding scrape. The smaller bucks not going to do a thing about it.
I'm not a scrape hunter anymore exspecially with a bow. But a rifle hunting down wind 75, 100 yards depending on the terain. In the 90's on up to 05 when I quit gun hunting. Me and friend killed so many off real and home made scrapes. That and ringer ridge kills rifles just got to easy.
But setting up right on a scrape very unlikey a mature bucks coming right to it unless it's dark. If theres been pressure in the area. But set up 75,100 yards down wind of the foirst trail you finds. Set up down wind. no pressure dead deer. If you've put pressure on the areas mature bucks. Stay home watch football. Because no 4,5,6 year olds going to show up inthe day light.
BET YOU GIVE YOU ODDS
I have 4 selfbow, mounts 6 rifle mounts, 3 ML, 2 shot gun. 1 pistol (SW 500). All mounts are from bucks 3 1/2 to 7 1/2, 32 skulls, 52 cut off racks. 100 bucks in all, 40 selfbow bucks. Most mounts came from scrapes or finger ridges.
But this year WV. oked cross bows. I killed a doe in school in the 70's. STEEL RECURVE BOW 2x2 four seamed like STEEL CABLE. So next year I just might try to kill a mature buck.Then give it to my youngest son BRIER.