Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: alwayslookin on October 29, 2015, 09:47:58 am
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Been tinkering the idea of making a bamboo backed bow. My question is since bamboo can overpower wood. In yalls experience what wood best suits being backed with bamboo?
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Ipe.
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I usually see bamboo ideally matched with high compression strength woods like ipe and osage (that's what I would use) however I also think that trapping the back of a bamboo bow when matched with a weaker belly wood can remedy this problem.
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My favorite is yew by far. Only because its light and quick to handle and shoot. Yew, osage or Ipe are your best bet. I wont trap a boo back, just my opinion.
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So I could probably getting away Osage slats then huh? I don't know where to ipe.
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I highly suggest them for a bomb proof, no breaking type bow when done right. Unless your into explosions? :)
With any belly wood, grain matters. Get the cleanest most straight osage grain you can find. Couple that with good sturdy, dry boo and you have one hell of a good combo.
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I highly suggest them for a bomb proof, no breaking type bow when done right. Unless your into explosions? :)
With any belly wood, grain matters. Get the cleanest most straight osage grain you can find. Couple that with good sturdy, dry boo and you have one hell of a good combo.
haha I don't mind explosions as long as they aren't bows. Thanks for the help pearl. You know where I can get any Osage slats?
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Mike Yancey at Pine Hollow in Arkansas. Cheap and he knows what you want. My buddy Roy just ordered some and was very happy. BBO bow is all he builds, so he knows osage slats.
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Awesome thanks man.
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Bamboo overpowers bellies for the same reasons intact wood backs overpower bellies. It is very strong in tension, but so are most bow woods anyway, like the intact back of a hickory, elm, maple, or mulberry sapling. Designed has a lot to do with it. Thinning and trapping the boo pretty far on a lighter wood is a good idea.
So you can use a lot of woods. I have made a LOT of bamboo backed bows with the bamboo flooring, and woods as light as red mulberry heartwood, plum, black locust, jatoba, etc. Also, had good success with very elastic woods in compression like yew heartwood, ERC, and juniper.
BUT, I definitely think you'll be better served pairing it with a high quality dense wood. Osage orange is fantastic, and ipe and massaranduba just as good or better. Brazilwood was pretty good, too.
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I'm pretty sure some boo backed hickory set some flight bow records, I'm not sure how its gonna work but i have a boo backed bl walnut to full brace right now
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Like to see that one bubby. I have an excess of BW and an extra bamboo backing in my shop.
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Ipe
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(http://i623.photobucket.com/albums/tt320/bubncheryl/Mobile%20Uploads/20151022_160618_zpsyr9zfkxo.jpg) (http://s623.photobucket.com/user/bubncheryl/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20151022_160618_zpsyr9zfkxo.jpg.html)
Here it is right now fred still lots to do
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Here are an Ipe, an Osage, and a Bloodwood bow. All are backed with Boo. I've also done Hickory, but I trap those (3:4 ratio).
(http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd44/kmsnake/20150907_121419.jpg)
(http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd44/kmsnake/20150907_121555.jpg)
(http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd44/kmsnake/20150907_121817.jpg)
Ken
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I highly suggest them for a bomb proof, no breaking type bow when done right. Unless your into explosions? :)
With any belly wood, grain matters. Get the cleanest most straight osage grain you can find. Couple that with good sturdy, dry boo and you have one hell of a good combo.
haha I don't mind explosions as long as they aren't bows. Thanks for the help pearl. You know where I can get any Osage slats?
I have made several Osage slat bows backed with Bamboo and all shoot great. I second Pine Hollow and Tree Rivers.
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Thanks guys for the help I think I'm gonna go Osage slats unless I come across some ipe some how.
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Anywhere that sell decking material will have Ipe.
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Best of luck with your build whatever you go with. I found a store with some Ideas locally and I'd love to give it a go with a boo back. But I'm daunted by its density as I only have handtools. Bubby I always enjoy seeing your work whatever stage it's at.And Ken those bows look absolutely incredible! :)
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Anywhere that sell decking material will have Ipe.
is grain orientation a huge factor with ipe?
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To a large degree, yes.
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I've read a few times that the grain on ipe is almost impossible to read. I've never found that true. I can look at either end figure it out quite easily. I prefer slat bows have the same type of grain Id look for if I was building a straight up board bow. Good ingredients equal good bows.
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Anywhere that sell decking material will have Ipe.
is grain orientation a huge factor with ipe?
As with most bows the grain is important and when looking for good slats. Just sight down the board and let you eyes tell you whether or not it will be a good candidate. That being said I have gotten a little desperate and gone for some not so choice pieces and they worked just fine.
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When it comes to ipe is edge grained preferred over face grained?
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Marc made a nice bamboo backed yellow heart not long ago,i think it's also called Pau amerello or some thing like that?not sure?
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When it comes to ipe is edge grained preferred over face grained?
It never mattered to me. I just want straight grain with no pins or swirls. They tend to give up the ghost on ipe.
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Thanks good Chris
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Beautiful bows, Ken.
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Just thought I would mention TRA is having a sale on slats right now $34 each plus shipping which put a little cheaper than others right now. They arrived yesterday and are damn near perfect. Best I got so far.
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thought I'd mention that with ipe , if you do get hold of it, then the main problem is knots, even the small, hardly visible pin knots will often cause compression fractures on the belly....so dont but ipe with knots...the grain is obviously better straight if you can get it, , but I have used run off grains on bellies with no problems at all, many times...and I believe it is absolutely the best match for bamboo, its a lot harder than osage, so therefore it will perform different to osage, one will be better than the other, IMHO ipe matches boo best....of course then there is boo and there is boo!!
Dave
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As long as you prep your bamboo properly, use a nice large diameter pole and thin it correctly before you glue it on you can get away with pretty much anything as a belly... Timber choice depends more on weight you're after from the bow.
I've made 40lb bows with bamboo backs and red oak bellies... 50-70lbs I use Grey Ironbark or Spotted gum or Massaranduba (pacific jarrah) and anything over 70 I use Red Ironbark or Ipe... You wont find spotted gum or the ironbarks in the states, they're Aussie natives but Osage would be a great substitute.
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Thanks for all the help gents. I think I will try Osage first and then locate some ipe.
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When it comes to ipe is edge grained preferred over face grained?
It never mattered to me. I just want straight grain with no pins or swirls. They tend to give up the ghost on ipe.
Yeah, the growth ring orientation isn't nearly as important as having the grain run mostly straight end to end. A little run off or some gentle zig-zags are ok, but kinks, angles, jogs, swirls, knots, and abrupt run-off are trouble.
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I'd like to see more bamboo-only bows. Bhutanese style bows seem pretty easy to make.
And I'd definitely like to know how the Song Mu Gung bamboo-only Korean bows are built - apparently a 51" ntn bow of bamboo can be drawn to 33"??! With reflex! Not sure if sinew backed or what...
Kind of off topic, but should one ever even bother trying to steam or boil bamboo to try to flatten it?
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Bhutanese bows require a special specie of bamboo that tolerates the inside of the bamboo being shaved down and still becoming the back of the bow.
I also like the look and coolness of all bamboo bows, but they take a lot of understanding and forethought. Large diameter bamboo helps. I have had success just laminating two pieces of even thickness together front to front, and shaping it like a pyramid bow, then messing with the side tiller (because the lenticular cross section doesn't allow a perfect pyramid bow.) The technical issue is that you need to thicken the handle with a tapered middle handle block/lam, and that is not easy to do well with basic tools. Also, you can scrape bamboo a little on the belly, and knock down the nodes on the belly, but don't do it on the back.
You CAN flatten bamboo side to side, and I have heard all kinds of guys do things like steam it between two boards that are clamped together tighter and tighter in increments. Stuff like that seems like so much trouble. Go too fast and it splits, etc I did learn that if I flattened the inside of bamboo and knocked out the inner nodes a bit, then ran the heatgun or torch over the outside of the bamboo, it would flatten itself. Not completely, but a lot, then you can sand the belly again. This tempered bamboo should only be used on the belly, though, because heat improves bamboo in compression, but NOT in tension as I understand. Unfortunately, I have been to busy since I learned this to try it in a bow.
And the last thing I learned that I filed away is that there are a TON of bamboo varieties throughout the world. So many. There are huge 10" plus diameter guadua bamboo pillars used as construction timbers in South America. There are tropical bamboos from SE Asia and India that are so dense they are solid all the way through and have a
band of the densest fibers 3/8" thick all around a 2" across pole. They are so dense and hard it is scary. Tre Gai bamboo grows 3" across and has only a 3/4" hole down the middle. I always wanted to buy a pole, split it and make an all bamboo ELB. But, most of this stuff is hard to get or super expensive to ship (can you imagine the shipping on a 12 foot long 10 inch dia. bamboo timber?) and I don't have any free time anymore.
I also want to mess with cable-backed, bamboo belly bows more.
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Seems like cable or sinew backed bamboo bows would have great potential. Thanks for the info
I found this from paleoplanet, it looks really cool. like a bhutanese bow with recurves and a cable backing
http://s178.photobucket.com/user/OrienM/media/bow002.jpg.html