Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Arrows => Topic started by: sieddy on October 28, 2015, 03:41:37 am
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Hello guys I am about to make my first set of arrows (from premade components this time) and I have a couple of questions.
Firstly about Arrow length; I like 28" arrows but I have been using 5/16 40/45 spine shafts. My arrows will be 11/32 50/55 spine so do I need to make them longer than 28"? Secondly am I right in thinking that I should put the finish (Danish oil and Beeswax) on before the fletching? (can I glue the feathers on over the finish?)
Finally is super glue any good for the Fletching? (I don't want to have to buy expensive glue from an archery supplier if there is a more common option.)
Thanks in advance
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I always make my arrows to draw length so that the bow can't be over drawn. But if you are increasing the spine you may want them longer...
You can always cut 'em down, but it's hard to make 'em longer ;)
I always fletch before finishing... mind I don't do much in the way of finish, maybe one wipe of acrylic varnish or just a wax polish.
De-grease your points so they stick solidly.
Del
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Thanks Del.
Is it ok to have a 28" 11/32 arrows for a 50/55# bow?
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You can have whatever length arrows you want. I shoot 30" arrows for my 26" draw.
Some finishes won't allow the fletch glue to stick to the shaft. Oils and waxes are probably some. I do use Tru-Oil on some arrows and fletch after applying it but I also tie fletches fore and aft.
Lots of folks use super glue for fletching. I'd do some experimenting first though.
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Arrow length is more about spine and draw length. The longer the arrow the lower the spine so if you know your bow likes say 40-45 but your shafts are 50-55 then you can leave them long and effectively lower the spine (there's a rough formula but darned if I've memorized it, lol). Also if you have a long draw length that can be important, for me and my Manchu bow using a thumb ring I have a draw around 32-33", which is a real pain because I have to order 35" arrows and those are kinda hard to find, lol.
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I tried thin CA by tying the fletch on and then running a "bead" of CA down the length. Too many times the CA would wick up into the fletch and make it hard like a rock. It would break after a few shots. I now use thick CA. I use a jig and put a bead of thick CA on the fletch, push it in place and wait 30 sec and it's done. Tie the front and back with thread or something.
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Urufu , 5# per inch. Longer for less spine, shorter for more spine. This is for a 28" arrow with a 125gr point. For each 25grs of tip weight over 125gr subtract 5# of spine and each 25gr under 125 add 5#.
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I like to stain then spray with poloy. I try on my feathers mostly. When I made dowl arrows 100's I put feathers with delco you'll never have one come off.
I've also used super glue because thats what I had. It also works great I think. Ouick drying where deco takes 5 or 10 mins'.
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Thanks fellas I knew I could count on the PA team! :)
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Urfu that is on heck of a draw length you got there! :)
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Urfu that is on heck of a draw length you got there! :)
Well, I'm more like 28"-29" on a western style bow using three finger mediterranean release, but using a thumb ring increases your draw some and with Manchu archery your anchor is not chin or cheek, it's more like ear, lol.
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I'd be worried the string would take my ear off! :o
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Well, shooting thumb ring the arrow is on the opposite side of the bow, so when you draw you can't really anchor right against the your face, with that kind of draw it's "floating" out away from you a little.
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Hello guys I am about to make my first set of arrows (from premade components this time) and I have a couple of questions.
Firstly about Arrow length; I like 28" arrows but I have been using 5/16 40/45 spine shafts. My arrows will be 11/32 50/55 spine so do I need to make them longer than 28"? Secondly am I right in thinking that I should put the finish (Danish oil and Beeswax) on before the fletching? (can I glue the feathers on over the finish?)
Finally is super glue any good for the Fletching? (I don't want to have to buy expensive glue from an archery supplier if there is a more common option.)
Thanks in advance
I'am at my wits end in regards to arrows. Its almost impossible to get really good arrow flight with natural shafts. I use all wood shafts and out of 10 arrows I may get 4 that fly ok the rest are duds. It does not matter what you do to them becasue wood is wood and not every arrow is created equal, the grain varies from tip to nock. I'am probably going to buy Carbon shafts with feather fletching. Hopefully my grouping will improve by 30%.
Having said that I'am using various bows so I know its not the bow. >:D
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Bow101, are you sure your natural shafting is from mature, well seasoned shoots? Are you spine testing them? Are you putting the stiff side of the arrow against the bow?
Bows are pretty simple to make. Arrows, on the other hand, take lots of work to get them right. Jumping ship and heading to the "carbon" side won't teach you anything about making or using arrows. Spend time this winter working with natural shafting and make yourself a nice set of arrows you can be proud of.
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My arrows are bought from a Professional arrow builder. ! stiff side of the arrow against the bow..Yep. proper spine.yep.
I have talked with others that have been shooting longer than me and been around the game for the last 20 years.
My shooting is not bad its quite good considering but something is amiss and its not the bow or my form.
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Arrows, on the other hand, take lots of work to get them right. Jumping ship and heading to the "carbon" side won't teach you anything about making or using arrows.
actually, in this case, it might 'teach' in terms of him knowing that all the variables of his shooting style are being done correctly.
if his grouping improves drastically, then it will prove that the wood arrows are not matched to his bow.
fire off three of the synthetic arrows followed up with a wooden one. study outcome.
perform rounds like this with each wooden arrow in your set.
the ones that have the closest flight to the synthetics are the ones you can possibly tune and experiment with. the others may end up being wall art; or matched to a different bow at a later date.
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Arrows, on the other hand, take lots of work to get them right. Jumping ship and heading to the "carbon" side won't teach you anything about making or using arrows.
actually, in this case, it might 'teach' in terms of him knowing that all the variables of his shooting style are being done correctly.
if his grouping improves drastically, then it will prove that the wood arrows are not matched to his bow.
fire off three of the synthetic arrows followed up with a wooden one. study outcome.
perform rounds like this with each wooden arrow in your set.
the ones that have the closest flight to the synthetics are the ones you can possibly tune and experiment with. the others may end up being wall art.
Are you watching........................... >:D did not think so..
...out of 10 arrows I may get 4 that fly ok the rest are duds. Fred Bear and many others like howard Hill would do the same. Shoot about 20 arrows the ones that do not make the cut get tossed in the burn pile.
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^^ i can if you youtube ;)
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Man this is putting me off even starting putting my Arrow parts together! if the pros struggle to get it right then I'm doomed! :o
Lol
To be fair though I've had some really great arrows just off guys selling them on eBay! (nothing like the kind that people on here make though!)
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I've been tempted to buy a couple of carbon arrows just to find out if it's me or the arrows. I know I've had a few bum arrows but I tried keeping track of them. I numbered them and watched for the same arrow doing weird things. Sometimes it was the same arrow flying poorly but most of the time the poor shots were different arrows. That points at one thing-me. I have a feeling that I would spray carbon arrows all over the back yard. I've settled on one bow to use 90% of the time to eliminate that. I think I'm plucking, short drawing, waving my bow arm around and whatever else I can do wrong. If you do buy carbon make sure the spine is perfect for the bow you're going to use(you knew that). Maybe they'll let you test shoot some. Maybe borrow some from someone at the range.
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My arrows are bought from a Professional arrow builder. !
...out of 10 arrows I may get 4 that fly ok the rest are duds.
i don't mean to offend, but that success ratio does not sound anywhere close to Professional.
i'm going to side with PatB on this. i bet you'll get a better results vs. the ones you've purchased.
Man this is putting me off even starting putting my Arrow parts together! if the pros struggle to get it right then I'm doomed! :o
Lol
To be fair though I've had some really great arrows just off guys selling them on eBay! (nothing like the kind that people on here make though!)
do not be discouraged so quickly.
stick to the fundamentals and you'll be ok.
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My arrows are bought from a Professional arrow builder. !
Ooooppsss...... I buy my shafts from a Professional arrow builder. Maybe my fletching skills are not Post I wrote;the best but some look bad and yet fly good. :) At any rate there is absolutely no argument that a wood shafts grain consistency is not uniform. :D I will still build wood arrows just have to toss out the bad ones or make Flu-Flu's out of them. ;D
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I've been tempted to buy a couple of carbon arrows just to find out if it's me or the arrows. I know I've had a few bum arrows but I tried keeping track of them. I numbered them and watched for the same arrow doing weird things. Sometimes it was the same arrow flying poorly but most of the time the poor shots were different arrows. That points at one thing-me. I have a feeling that I would spray carbon arrows all over the back yard. I've settled on one bow to use 90% of the time to eliminate that. I think I'm plucking, short drawing, waving my bow arm around and whatever else I can do wrong. If you do buy carbon make sure the spine is perfect for the bow you're going to use(you knew that). Maybe they'll let you test shoot some. Maybe borrow some from someone at the range.
For sure I'll use the Club arrows before I purchase.
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My experience is that the arrows I make work sometimes, and sometimes not. If I make them Willy-Nilly they end up just that. If I take the time to select the right spine for the poundage I shoot I end up fine. Nothing comes easy that's worth it.
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My experience is that the arrows I make work sometimes, and sometimes not. If I make them Willy-Nilly they end up just that. If I take the time to select the right spine for the poundage I shoot I end up fine. Nothing comes easy that's worth it.
I hear you , read this post by Eric maybe it will put a perspective on using natural shafts.
http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,54679.0.html
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If you bought shafting from a reliable dealer they should all fly well unless you did something wrong while building then, how they are set up or possibly your draw/release/form. When I built cedar arrows I would buy a dozen shafts in a spine group about 10# under the desired bow draw weight. I used spray paint or acrylic paint for crown dips and cresting and water based poly to seal. I'd fletch with Duco cement put field points on and plastic nocks and go shoot. They all shot well, some better than others. All I did was assemble the parts, pretty mindlessly. Was it blind luck? I don't think so. Could commercial shafting today be that much worse than back in the early 1990s?
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Thanks good to know Pat- I was hoping it was going to be a pretty straightforward process with the ready made parts. Sorry if I'm being dense but just so I'm clear- if I cut my shafts shorter I will end up with arrows spined to a higher drawweight? So as my shafts are 32" 50/55 spine, if I cut them down to 29" they should then be spined around 65/70 or higher? If this is the case I'll leave them full length so I can shoot the arrows from my 52# bow. Thanks again! :)
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Thanks Del.
Is it ok to have a 28" 11/32 arrows for a 50/55# bow?
Yeah if the shafts are the right spine.
I think there is a lot of overthink with arrows, the important thing is they are the all same. At 3D shoots I see some guys with a quiver full of miss matched arrows in different lengths!
I often have two sets, one set my full draw plus about 3/4" (28" to base of point) and the other set made from the first ones that break off a point that are just on my draw length (about 27"). I don't mix 'em up.
I don't much like making arrows so I tend to adjust the bow to suit the arrow! A small change in brace height, or a 1/16 off the arrow pass makes quite a difference.
Del
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Thanks Del I'll have a play around with them and see how I get on. It's an awful lot of fuss for a bunch of sticks that are likely to get broke and lost within a few months! I just want to get em so I can get a decent performance out of my bow. :)
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When you buy commercial shafting they are spined for a finished 28" arrow with a 125gr point. If the shafts are 32" long and are marked 50#-55# spine they will make an arrow with a 30#-35# effective spine if made full length and have a 125gr point.
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Thanks again Pat it's really helpful and I think I get it. If I cut my 32" 50/55# shafts to 28" and have 100g points the arrows should be around the 45/50# mark?
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Probably more like 40# to 45#. Points weighing less than 125gr will increase the effective spine weight by 5# per 25gr and decrease by 5# for 25gr over.
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Well I made my first arrows and happily found it to be a really simple process. I didn't worry too much about the measurements and glued the fletches on freehand they are not straight but they shoot straight and hard off my bow. I am chuffed- they look good and are more economical. Pictures to follow! :-)
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cool.
in for those photographs.