Primitive Archer

Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: DC on October 20, 2015, 08:44:48 pm

Title: Yew recurve-Postmortem please
Post by: DC on October 20, 2015, 08:44:48 pm
This is a Yew recurve I made for a friend. 64" NTN direct, not following the recurves. 50# at 27.5", the heaviest bow I've made. Abalone pass and hoof tips. It's a nice straight piece of yew with a double layer of sapwood. Up against the heartwood there is a 3/16" layer of white sapwood and then over that there is a slightly yellower layer about 1/2" thick. I reduced the outer layer to just about nil. Got it close to one ring. You'll have to take my word on the last bits because I couldn't get a picture of it.
Title: Re: Yew recurve
Post by: DC on October 20, 2015, 08:47:30 pm
More and a partial FD, I can't pull 50#.
Title: Re: Yew recurve
Post by: bowandarrow473 on October 20, 2015, 09:07:30 pm
Looks like a fine bow, very well done!
Title: Re: Yew recurve
Post by: TimothyR on October 20, 2015, 09:10:29 pm
Very nice DC.  I like it!
Title: Re: Yew recurve
Post by: Glerian on October 20, 2015, 09:12:00 pm
What a beauty!
Title: Re: Yew recurve
Post by: PlanB on October 20, 2015, 09:28:44 pm
Man, that's nice!
Title: Re: Yew recurve
Post by: GB on October 20, 2015, 10:03:18 pm
Great looking bow!
Title: Re: Yew recurve
Post by: Badger on October 20, 2015, 10:19:12 pm
  You did a nice job on that bow, I bet she is quick!
Title: Re: Yew recurve
Post by: wizardgoat on October 20, 2015, 11:09:02 pm
Nice Don. Keep me coming!
I've had some yellowish sapwood rings and haven't noticed anything wrong with it.
Title: Re: Yew recurve
Post by: sieddy on October 21, 2015, 07:02:06 am
That is a really great looking bow. Nice job!  :)
Title: Re: Yew recurve
Post by: Pappy on October 21, 2015, 07:28:58 am
Beautiful bow, very nice. I am sure your friend will love that. :)
 Pappy
Title: Re: Yew recurve
Post by: Will B on October 21, 2015, 07:51:38 am
Great looking bow!
Title: Re: Yew recurve
Post by: Aaron H on October 21, 2015, 08:59:52 am
Looks good from here,  I dig the abalone arrow pas
Title: Re: Yew recurve
Post by: Del the cat on October 21, 2015, 09:02:42 am
Very nice, I see a lot of yew with that double layer of sapwood going on.
Del
Title: Re: Yew recurve
Post by: ravenbeak on October 21, 2015, 09:15:56 am
Hey Don,

That looks fantastic,  well done,  I am sure he will be happy with that one.  Any issues getting it bending on the stick or twisting?

lovely bow

cheers
Title: Re: Yew recurve
Post by: DC on October 21, 2015, 03:49:24 pm
Thanks guys. The abalone was a bit of a PITA. It's lumpy so it was hard to match up with the wood. And it curves the wrong way so it's tough to get a smooth pass. I'm not sure I would use it again, at least not the way I did.

The nice white sapwood has many, many RPI. The next layer not so many. We think it first layer was while the tree was completely surrounded by other trees so it grew slow, then they clear cut next to it and the light could get through. I've got the sister stave to this one, I may try to reduce the sapwood down to the nice white layer. Good job for when we go camping next year.

I had to bend it in the handle a bit for string alignment. Somehow doing that twisted one tip a bit. It took three treatments to get it spot on. I put temp nocks on it and used a stringer so I could brace it early. It was a grunt but it paid off. I really didn't have to do a lot of tillering after I got it braced.

I sure wish I could pull fifty pounds. I would like to try it but thats not to be.

Thanks for all the nice comments
Title: Re: Yew recurve
Post by: bow101 on October 23, 2015, 06:04:32 pm
Good job. Keep building 'em heavier like that or not so heavy maybe 44# would be adequate.   Short to at 64".   If I can pull over 42# and hold for a few seconds you can do it to.   
Title: Re: Yew recurve
Post by: Cloudfeather on October 23, 2015, 06:34:13 pm
Simple, clean lines, nice curves. Nothing not to like about that one.
Title: Re: Yew recurve
Post by: Blayne on October 23, 2015, 11:31:39 pm
Turned out really nice Don!
Title: Re: Yew recurve
Post by: DC on October 27, 2015, 12:29:22 am
It didn't last very long. I delivered the bow yesterday and he called me today and said it broke big time. All I have is this picture. He will bring the parts in a couple of weeks when he comes down. You can see on the top piece that there is a knot at the right hand end, right above the stray tip overlay. He said that you can't see the knot from the back. I'm thinking that the second layer of sapwood grew over it and when I reduced the sapwood I got too close. That combined with me not being able to properly exercise the bow(I couldn't pull 50#) it just gave up. I'll post some more pictures when I get the carcass.

It looks like it came apart so hard it shook the overlay off the other limb.
Title: Re: Yew recurve-Postmortem please
Post by: wizardgoat on October 27, 2015, 02:23:40 pm
Bummer.... Hard to tell in photos, on most the yew bows I've seen break its either been a hidden problem, or a punky knot, all tension breaks.  Where those knots solid? If they can be dug out I always do and fill them, if not, they are usually harder than the surrounding wood.
Looking at your full draw I can't see any obvious flaws.

Title: Re: Yew recurve
Post by: bow101 on October 27, 2015, 02:31:36 pm
It didn't last very long. I delivered the bow yesterday and he called me today and said it broke big time. All I have is this picture. He will bring the parts in a couple of weeks when he comes down. You can see on the top piece that there is a knot at the right hand end, right above the stray tip overlay. He said that you can't see the knot from the back. I'm thinking that the second layer of sapwood grew over it and when I reduced the sapwood I got too close. That combined with me not being able to properly exercise the bow(I couldn't pull 50#) it just gave up. I'll post some more pictures when I get the carcass.

It looks like it came apart so hard it shook the overlay off the other limb.

I have not broke a bow in quite a while,  now you know how I felt when I broke them.   Looks like she was over stressed.   I would try over stressing the bows to 29" it may help curtail some myths regarding what it will take and not.    :o
Title: Re: Yew recurve-Postmortem please
Post by: DC on October 27, 2015, 02:55:13 pm
There were only two knots visible from the back and they were/looked solid. There seems to be a bunch of knots in that area and I don't remember any of them. Possibly the "second" layer of sapwood covered them.
You may have a point, if I had pulled it to 29 on the tree at least it would have broken there rather than in his living room.
Title: Re: Yew recurve-Postmortem please
Post by: DC on October 27, 2015, 03:07:33 pm
I'm also wondering about the bottom tip. The top limb broke but the bottom tip came off. Is it possible that the tip coming of caused the whole thing? Or is it more likely that the violence of the whole deal shook it off? The tip was broken in half but that could nave happened when it hit the floor/ceiling/whatever.
Title: Re: Yew recurve-Postmortem please
Post by: Del the cat on October 27, 2015, 03:11:14 pm
Oooooh, that's a sickener .
Now't I can see. It loos like the whole limb went bang, so I think that shows it was evenly stressed, just something made it go bang.
I've learnt that sometimes this stuff happens and you can't always say why... we like to have a reason, maybe the wood was too dry, maybe too much reflex, maybe overdrawn, maybe a bang on the back or a patch of weak grain (wind shake) or a manky knot.
Just have to move on.
I hope it hasn't left you in a awkward situation, (mind a little embarrassment is good for the soul).
I feel your pain 'cos that was a gorgeous bow :(.
Attached is my guess as to where the failure started.
Is there a prize for the closest? >:D
Del
BTW. Did you shoot it in? I like to get at least 50 arrows through a bow, ideally 100. Can't with warbows tho' as I can't draw 'em these days >:(.
Title: Re: Yew recurve-Postmortem please
Post by: DC on October 27, 2015, 03:51:37 pm
That's where I was thinking. It will be nice to get the parts in my hands so I can maybe see. On the broken tip piece you can see the knot right at the end. Thanks for the confirmation.
Title: Re: Yew recurve-Postmortem please
Post by: sieddy on October 27, 2015, 05:26:25 pm
Man that is such a pity. It was a really great looking bow!
Title: Re: Yew recurve-Postmortem please
Post by: DC on October 27, 2015, 05:35:44 pm
Yeah, but now I get to make another and, hopefully, with a little more knowledge :D :D
Title: Re: Yew recurve-Postmortem please
Post by: PatM on October 27, 2015, 05:45:14 pm
Do yourself  and your friends a favor and get some flawless wood of a more reliable species.
Title: Re: Yew recurve-Postmortem please
Post by: wizardgoat on October 27, 2015, 06:02:34 pm
Yew isn't consider reliable? That's new to me
Title: Re: Yew recurve-Postmortem please
Post by: PatM on October 27, 2015, 06:09:55 pm
Apparently not for guys pushing their limits. The last two post-mortems on here have been yew recurves. Pope and Young, Massey and several more have also called it fickle.
Title: Re: Yew recurve-Postmortem please
Post by: Dances with squirrels on October 27, 2015, 06:24:08 pm
I guessed the exact same spot Del.

I wouldn't hand a bow over to someone that wasn't drawn over a hundred times to their draw length, the way they draw it... preferably shot that way too, but at least drawn on the tree, set up to mimic their particulars as closely as possible, and limbs sync'd relevant to them. I can pull a MUCH heavier bow on the tree than I can by hand.
Title: Re: Yew recurve-Postmortem please
Post by: DC on October 27, 2015, 07:57:07 pm
I pulled it 3 or 400 times to full draw length on the tree. I was especially concerned because I couldn't pull a 50# bow. I have a 2:1 on my tree so it's easy to pull it there. I posted the question here
http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,54416.msg739281.html#msg739281
didn't get a big response but they seemed to think there wasn't a better way. I asked a kid at the range to do it but he didn't want to be a guinea pig.

I guess I was pushing my limits but every time you try something different you're pushing your limits. That's how we improve. I could have used different wood but sooner or later I would have made a 50# yew recurve. Such is life. I can't wait to see the remains.
Title: Re: Yew recurve-Postmortem please
Post by: Hamish on October 27, 2015, 08:31:43 pm
Shame about the bow. Hard to tell from the photo's but the edges of your bow limbs look very straight, which is fine if it is knot free, but makes me think you might not have compensated for the knots where they occurred, by leaving a swelling on the sides like water flowing around a rock in the river. Leaving extra wood  as warts can be okay too, but I think the swelling on the sides is a better solution especially against tension breaks.

I have noticed many guys are cavalier about this either by ignorance or by design/experience, and to their credit most of these bows don't break or chrysal at these potential problem areas. If something does happen and there is no other obvious reason like overdrawing, the problem can usually be traced back to these areas. Hindsight is 20/20,  it only takes one broken bow to realise it may seem like more work in the first place to do the compensations properly, but is much quicker than having to make  another bow to replace the first.
Nevertheless you have my sincere condolences.


Title: Re: Yew recurve-Postmortem please
Post by: PatM on October 27, 2015, 09:14:20 pm
I pulled it 3 or 400 times to full draw length on the tree. I was especially concerned because I couldn't pull a 50# bow. I have a 2:1 on my tree so it's easy to pull it there. I posted the question here
http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,54416.msg739281.html#msg739281
didn't get a big response but they seemed to think there wasn't a better way. I asked a kid at the range to do it but he didn't want to be a guinea pig.

I guess I was pushing my limits but every time you try something different you're pushing your limits. That's how we improve. I could have used different wood but sooner or later I would have made a 50# yew recurve. Such is life. I can't wait to see the remains.
Yes, but you  want to push your limits first. Then you can push the limits of a wood.
Title: Re: Yew recurve-Postmortem please
Post by: DC on October 27, 2015, 10:24:14 pm
We don't have Osage here, if that's what you're hinting ;D ;D
Title: Re: Yew recurve-Postmortem please
Post by: PatM on October 27, 2015, 10:31:19 pm
    Of course not.
Title: Re: Yew recurve-Postmortem please
Post by: ravenbeak on October 27, 2015, 10:34:38 pm
Hey

What about an overdraw?  If it is to who I think it went to,  he is a pretty big guy.  Did you measure the draw length?  64 inches is on the lower end of the length spectrum to be safe,  especially with big recurves.   When it doubt,  leave it long and back it. 

sorry to hear,  breaks suck

Title: Re: Yew recurve-Postmortem please
Post by: DC on October 27, 2015, 10:43:02 pm
His draw length is the same as mine 27.5 and I asked what he was doing. He was showing a friend where his anchor point was so I think overdraw is out. I'm starting to think that Hamish may be on to something, I might have cut to close to a knot. I'm waiting for more pictures. In a way I would rather it was something I did because I've got the sister stave leaning against my bench and I'd hate to think it was useless.
Title: Re: Yew recurve-Postmortem please
Post by: LittleBen on October 28, 2015, 08:11:35 am
One way maybe to ensure a bow is properly escercise and that it's safe is to shoot it at the intended draw length and with a slightly higher brace height than the maximum you mark on the bow.just a thought.

I had one recently for the TG swap and I shot that thing a couple hundred times at the reported draw length but when the recipient got it, the handle popped off within the first day, presumably just due to shooting a lighter arrow ....

It happens whatcha gonna do
Title: Re: Yew recurve-Postmortem please
Post by: smoke on October 28, 2015, 09:16:00 am
Dang, that was a lovely bow.
Title: Re: Yew recurve-Postmortem please
Post by: DC on November 07, 2015, 01:15:41 am
I got the bow back. I feel a bit better now that I see it. With my experience I don't think I should have seen this coming, probably even with a lot more experience. I feel vindicated. There was no indication of anything wrong. I looked with a 10x loope and the pin stops 2 years down from where I stopped removing sapwood. There is another about 6" toward the handle. I'm not sure which went first but this is the worst knot.