Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Flintknapping => Topic started by: JackCrafty on October 14, 2015, 11:48:52 am
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Written in 1996 (almost 20 years old) this article by John Whittaker presents evidence for copper pressure flaking tools many hundreds of years prior to evidence for bows and arrows in the New World. I present it here so that those who do not know, or have not been exposed to the idea, can see that copper pressure flakers are not a modern "thing". Many have chosen to ignore this idea over the years or have asked for "proof".
I don't want to cause a scene here, just putting out information. O:)
http://web.grinnell.edu/anthropology/Faculty/JohnWhittaker/Articles/1996_Some_Prehistoric_Copper_Flaking_Tools_in_Minnesota.PDF
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Thanks Patrick, very informitive and I am sure it's going to get controversial. Bob
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Thanks Patrick. It is always difficult for people to adjust to "new" ideas. As a general rule, assumptions rule till facts force them aside. No I have not done any research on this topic myself, but neither have I seen any evidence posted to rebut the idea, while I have seen postings offering evidence in agreement with this. I'm not an argumentative person, but I do like to see people offer evidence for their stands.
WA
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Thanks for the link Patrick.
Here is a link to some copper mining.
I have been to Jerome AZ. Cool place.
It's an easy read but fascinating in scope.
Zuma
Ancient America: Aboriginal Mining - Daily Kos (http://Ancient America: Aboriginal Mining - Daily Kos)
www.dailykos.com/story/.../-Ancient-America-Aboriginal-Mining (http://www.dailykos.com/story/.../-Ancient-America-Aboriginal-Mining) - Similarto Ancient America: Aboriginal Mining - Daily Kos
Jun 10, 2012 ... Copper tools included adzes, awls, fishhooks, harpoons, socketed axes, ... An ongoing series sponsored by the Native American Netroots team ...
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Zuma, I cannot open the links you posted. I agree with Iowabow. The part about wear patterns is very interesting. Has anybody compared artifacts from other copper cultures around the world?
WA
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I've always known about the copper knapping tools found in the Great Lakes/Midwest region. I think the question (for me) is how widespread they were used but there's no doubt they were used. Here's a page from lithic guru Larry Kinsella on some Midwest copper pressure flakers to add to the discussion: http://flintknapper.com/NEW%20HACKER%20FLAKER.htm
Pardon if it's mentioned in the original article, I've just skimmed it.
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Not doubting the use of copper, but I do wonder why no testing of the artifacts and/or flakes found in association with the probable pressure flakers was done to look for traces of copper. Certainly some of the artifacts associated with the site must still exist in collections somewhere, so perhaps there is an opportunity there for modern science. (I am assuming that if blood proteins can be identified on Clovis artifacts, there is some way to detect the presence of an elemental metal on younger artifacts, but that may not be the case.)
Keith
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I have wondered that also. With the fantastic microscopes available today it would be a great study to view the edges of original points for what is trapped there.
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John, I'm not questioning wether copper was used , My question is, If copper was used why are we excluding it from being ABO? I personally don't care what people use to make there points, I like using all the tools. Antler, stone , copper even biscuits. I have tried ABO some and worked good on some materials and on others I struggled. I like trying to knapp every material that I can get my hands on so I guess I will be a copperhead for now :D Bob
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Thanks guys for the informative articles. This is turning out to be a really good discussion. I also am for testing artifacts for further evidence, but I don't know what permissions etc. might involved or whether the artifacts might have to be altered to do the testing.
WA
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My question is, If copper was used why are we excluding it from being ABO?
"Daddy, does that mean they will call me 'ABO' and give me a special seat, and hang jewels around my neck?"
"I don't know son, let's see what the judges say."
>:D :laugh: :laugh: :o ;D ;D ;)
All in jest for shore, but truth be told, it doesn't matter to me what ya call it. I work with copper tools and only play around with stone and bone.
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At Oregon Ridge Primitive skills weekend in MD it has always been a strictly ABO tool kit and we can use our copper pressure flakers but not billets. good info. I have seen some articles of supposed billets also. I can't think it would be much of a leap to pick up a nugget and use it for a hammerstone.
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http://journals.ed.ac.uk/lithicstudies/article/view/1126/1632
Freeze Cracked posted this link on another forum in a thread about deep notching. It is very interesting to me because of it's comments on the use of copper in knapping some points.
WA
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The evidence of copper use is nothing new really. There's long since been findings that show that it was used, but it would the exception not the standard. As few findings as there are for copper tools and with antler, bone, wood, and stone being so common and easy to come by over copper, I feel it's safe to say the fast majority of points were made with out the use of metal. It's almost like saying small pieces of cardboard will get you rich just because one guy one the lottery with a scratch off ::)
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John, I'm not questioning wether copper was used , My question is, If copper was used why are we excluding it from being ABO? I personally don't care what people use to make there points, I like using all the tools. Antler, stone , copper even biscuits. I have tried ABO some and worked good on some materials and on others I struggled. I like trying to knapp every material that I can get my hands on so I guess I will be a copperhead for now :D Bob
The reason that people exclude copper from ABO is because they assume that copper was not used, and they assume that more natural flaking tools were used, such as wood, antler, ivory, stone, etc.
Beyond this, many knappers assume that ancient knappers simply invented techniques on a whim. And, so any use of certain materials, for flaking tools, is believed to be a potential candidate for a bonafide practice, especially if a person can get a flake, and a flake scar, that looks like a match.
This entire line of reasoning is totally flawed. There are way too many assumptions, and unsubstantiated beliefs, involved. It is much safer to take known flakers into account - or even make known flakers the starting point. To ignore the known evidence, and then come up with theories is a travesty.
That being said, Ishi switched to steel, for pressure flaking. And, there was a reason why he chose steel over antler. If a person looks at Ishi's choice of a pressure flaker, and then looks at the material he frequently worked, and the considers the reason he stated for using a steel pressure flaker, what becomes apparent is that the explanation that Cushing gave, during the 19th century, regarding materials and flakers, might just be more valid then people think. And, if a person considers the practice that Ishi exhibited, and the bulk of the explanations given by tribal-trained Cushing, then one would have to expand the possibilities, regarding tools like these. But, that would require taking into account far more aboriginal flintknapping criteria, that was never taken into account, by disconnected European researchers, who did not understand any flintknapping very well, much less Native American flintknapping. And, if the full gamut of criteria, regarding evidence of known/suspected flaking practices, is taken into account, then one would have to honestly admit that some of these tools might not be pressure flakers at all. That being said, at a certain point, it is sometimes quite difficult to discern when a flaking tool was used in one specific manner, or was used in two different modes, that are quite distinct from each other. In some cases, one would probably have to narrow it down, by looking at the type of stone that had been worked, with said tools. And, once again, this dovetails with the issue that Cushing raised, during the 19th century, when it seems he tried to help European academics better understand the subject.
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Very good question ...let's ask JackCrafty he wrote the definition
"Abo Flintknapping - Also: Aboriginal Material Flintknapping. An interpretation of flintknapping performed with materials found in nature and without the aid of metals."
The term "Abo" has been used in many converstations, with different definitions, but the majority of knappers use the term as an "easy" way to exclude copper (or metals) from flintknapping techniques. It basically puts modern knappers in two camps: the ones who use metals and the ones who don't. It is also generally assumed that abo knapping is more challenging and perhaps more rewarding. The term doesn't imply that "real" knapping in the past didn't include metals.
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Just say no,no,no to carborundum.
If I see yer grinder wheel I'll throw a tantrum.
If you laugh at my wood billet yer gonna get some.
Just say no, no, no to carborundum.
PD
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Actually, what you all call Abo knapping should be called "experimental knapping".
Although I think some archies may claim they rule that territory.
The archaeological record is scant on knapping tool usage and really stinky
when it comes to known objects uses. Bannerstones, gorgets, birdstones etc.
There is virtually nothing known about Abo drilling. The exception may be the use of cane.
So IMO most any tool besides hammer stones is not well documented back before the
first historic records of Late Woodland knappers.
Restricting ABO knapping to Late Woodland techniques would be kinda silly because it
would exclude 12,678 years of unknown knapping. Time where practicality
would dictate that any and every tool imaginable was used.
I may choose a gar scale to notch with but a native knapper in Maine would not easily have access to one.
Just like a native knapper in Florida would be hard pressed to get copper.
So should modern ABO knappers be restricted to the tool material of their area?
Or should they be restricted to tools that are only documented by archaeologist in their area?
Or should they perhaps find a more sutible name for their hobby where anything goes but metal.
At least copper boppers can retain their handle--Knapper
Humm not ABO knapper--- but Non-Metal Knapper O:)
Zuma
Sure Pete, just don't let us see you guys sharpen your tools with metal
and electric grinders.
It's chert and greenstone sharpening tools from now on.
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Don't Get Yer Feathers in a Twist
'Bout the Platforms that You Missed
Just Grind Ahead
But Please Use Schist
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BOA (Bone Or Antler) ;D
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John, I sure as heck don't feel left out. I was just asking a question and I personally don't give a darn what kind of tools you use. Most of us are just a bunch of replicators, trying to make our points look like someones that came way before us. I like being well rounded , Heck I have even tried some of Steve's tools , you know the dogwood bowling pins that ruin your hearing after hitting a couple home runs. Think i'll go out in the garage and just knap ;D ;D Bob
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It is good to see the participation. No matter what. :)
I think we learn a lot by splitting hairs.
It's kinda like trying to get a blade paper thin.
I know I always come away with more than I
came with, during these friendly discussions. :)
Zuma
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Patrick, thanks for your quick reply and answer, Now I understand. thanks Bob :)
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Few years ago I attended the gold and mineral show in El Paso, Texas. Basically it was a metal detecting show. I spoke with one of the vendors who was from Wisconsin. In our conversation he told me that he has detected around 200 copper artifacts. Not sure about his knowledge of what can or can't be used for flint knapping but it sure would be interesting to look over his finds.
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Can you knap with antler?
I know that I can.
Even though I am
Industrial Man.
My DNA has strontium ninety
My auto-car is space-age proper
But I'll give you shit
If you Knap With Copper.
PD
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To begin with, I agree with Zuma that we know very little about how things were done pre-contact. Trade preceded colonization by about 100 years, so in in general by the time any Europeans came along to record how things were done, they had already changed. The only flint knapping the Jamestown colonists recorded observing was pressure flaking small arrow points, probably because by 1607 the Powhatans had had access to metal knives and hatchets for at least a few generations. Add to that the utter upheaval caused by European diseases and subsequent wars and you have a sitution where a huge amount of long accumulated knowledge was erased in a flash.
Here's what I find interesting about copper knapping: If you were to ask an economist he would consider modern knapping to be a free market, capitalist system. That type of system is very good at finding the best way of doing something. Based on that the economist would have to conclude that copper boppers and copper pressure flakers are the best way to knap, because that is what most modern knappers use, and (perhaps more importantly) that is the tool set that dominates commercial knapping. Of course we know that the stone age knappers weren't using copper boppers, and the use of copper pressure was likely fairly restricted, so that leaves two possibilities: One is that the overall model is correct and it is a matter of trying to match abo materials and tool designs to the economical performance given by the copper tools. The second is that the model is wrong, and it is just a matter of two roads on opposite sides of the mountain that just happen to both lead to the top. I think future experimental knapping needs to explore both of those possibilities.
Keith
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Some copper artifacts from Wisconsin and Michigan.
Featured in the Ancient American Magazine
Zuma
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My IRA has fallen flat
So I knap with a baseball bat
My copper tools I cannot see
Covered there in verdigris
Huxley said love's good as soma
But my tools cause a hematoma
If you use boppers-bop them good
I'll just smash my knees with Wood
PD
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Don't you just love it!!!! Let's get to chippin!!!!
WA
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Non-metal knapping (NMK) sounds good. It's self explanitory.
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That means no aluminum!
PD
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Nmk instead of abo? Well heck what do you guys think ? That was easy.
Non-metal knapping (NMK) sounds good. It's self explanitory.
yes and yes.
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Non-metal knapping (NMK) sounds good. It's self explanitory.
I may have instigated this name change and NMK is very accurate.
I just wish we could devise a tag that didn't require the (Non).
I guess because it has a sort of a negative notation.
Since I'm wimpy and lazy I look at current abo knappers as sort of masochistic.
Not in a negative way. They are mostly tough folks that can handle more pain
than the regular wooses like me. All you-all may think I am unkind but I would
go for something like Metaless Flint Stoner's Anonymous. LOL
But that is to long and so is MFSA
(just kidding) Maybe--- Copper Alternative Technologies.( CAT Knappers)
Bone and Stone would be (BS Knappers) lol
Zuma
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Nope.
SPFLB
Sweet Potato Farmers with Lots of BONE
(http://www.fototime.com/99773307902B6C7/standard.jpg)
My humble submission.
PD
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I dont see a need to change the name of anything. Everyone knows what the term ABO means. If you are not knapping ABO then every one know what that means. Mail like the BS knapper a idea tho that about encompasses it all.
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I agree, no need to split hairs and change names. I have no doubt some copper was used, and who would be surprised if the occassional lump of copper, iron or lead wasn't used as a hammer stone. I would be willing to bet that when the Vikings abandoned their Canadian settlements some of the nails and other bits of metal left behind got made into knapping tools.
What it really comes down to is this: We need to get together a trip to the U.P., but instead of a "rock run", it will be a "copper run". If we scrounge up our own copper and beat it into pressure flakers with stone hammers, that will be non-controversial metal abo tools.
I'm already doing the math in my head. One "Certified Abo" copper pressure flaker for 3 good spalls of Flintridge... :)
Keith