Primitive Archer

Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: simson on September 20, 2015, 10:30:35 am

Title: handle position on indian bows?
Post by: simson on September 20, 2015, 10:30:35 am

I have made  a bunch of american natives indian bows. All of them had the handles exact at center, the two limbs have same length.
Do you know if there is an asymmetrical design excisting? Maybe eastern woodland bows.

Title: Re: handle position on indian bows?
Post by: Pat B on September 20, 2015, 10:55:51 am

I have no historic information about this but I believe that asymmetrical bows are more of a modern development. There are historic asymmetrical bows like the Japanese Yumi but in general I don't think generally used.  Back in the 40s or maybe before the technical aspects of archery were explored more in depth to improve the popularity of archery with ordinary folks.

Title: Re: handle position on indian bows?
Post by: Josh B on September 20, 2015, 11:07:01 am

I make all my eastern woodland bows with the arrow pass at dead center.  I tried finding historical documentation to determine if there were any standards in regards to handle/arrow pass placement and I came up with nothing.  I'll be interested in seeing what you find out.  Until then, I'll keep making them the same way as I always have and hope I'm not too far off the mark.  Josh

Title: Re: handle position on indian bows?
Post by: bowandarrow473 on September 20, 2015, 12:47:56 pm

I would imagine that they just shot where it felt good to shoot.

Title: Re: handle position on indian bows?
Post by: tipi stuff on September 20, 2015, 01:08:29 pm

I don't know anything about Eastern bows, but the Hidatsa (Missouri River) made a lot asymmetric bows. This is not a very good photo, but the bow was made by Wolf Chief and collected by Gilbert Wilson.

Title: Re: handle position on indian bows?
Post by: simson on September 20, 2015, 01:25:45 pm

Now that becomes interesting ...
Pat: handle is at center
Josh: handle is below center
bowandarrow: free flow
tipi stuff: asym. is possible

@ tipistuff: do you know that for sure? or could it be that bow on thepic is out of form because of permanent bracing or wrong storage?

Title: Re: handle position on indian bows?
Post by: tipi stuff on September 20, 2015, 01:27:46 pm

It is intentionally made asymmetric.

Title: Re: handle position on indian bows?
Post by: simson on September 20, 2015, 01:37:41 pm

Thanks for that quick response. I have to figure out more info of Hidatsa bows. Will study Jim Hamm's and Steve Allely's encyclopedia again ....

Title: Re: handle position on indian bows?
Post by: PatM on September 20, 2015, 02:04:43 pm

Pretty sure the Sudbury bow was asymmetrical. Many of the D bows aren't really going to show an exact limb length since the grip position is often a bit ambiguous.

Title: Re: handle position on indian bows?
Post by: JonW on September 20, 2015, 02:32:39 pm

I recall seeing some double curve bows that were asymmetrical. I think if you do enough research you will find quite a few examples. It seems logical that handle placement might be what "feels right" rather than symmetrical.

Title: Re: handle position on indian bows?
Post by: tipi stuff on September 20, 2015, 04:10:48 pm

These are all Hidatsa asymmetric bows. The handle is offset more on some than others.  Curtis

Title: Re: handle position on indian bows?
Post by: Peacebow_Coos on September 20, 2015, 09:48:31 pm

From what I've seen of west coast sinew backed stuff, they are usually slightly asymmetrical, like 3/8" or 1/2" difference.  Really short bows usually though.

Title: Re: handle position on indian bows?
Post by: Traxx on September 21, 2015, 02:36:24 am

From what I've seen of west coast sinew backed stuff, they are usually slightly asymmetrical, like 3/8" or 1/2" difference.

I dont think that was intentional though,i think that was from poor storage,such as the Ishi bows at the university in Berkley,standing in a barrel in the basement.

Title: Re: handle position on indian bows?
Post by: redhawk55 on September 21, 2015, 07:54:07 am

The asymmetry of the hidatsa bows has been researched by the University of Northern Dakota. But I can't find the report anymore in the web.
Maybe this helps: http://paleoplanet69529.yuku.com/topic/23054/t/old-designs-reloaded-asymmetrical-bows.html

Michael

Title: Re: handle position on indian bows?
Post by: simson on September 21, 2015, 08:13:42 am

Thanks a lot for your input, guys!

@tipistuff: great pics, thanks man
@ michael: interesting link, thank you

Title: Re: handle position on indian bows?
Post by: Parnell on September 21, 2015, 11:30:05 am

I think the PA magazine had an article on the Hidatsa bow going back to the first issues in the early 90"s.  Don't recall how much info was there...
I have it somewhere in my office...

Title: Re: handle position on indian bows?
Post by: gutpile on September 21, 2015, 04:34:36 pm

Al Herrin cherokee bows are not center but arrow pass 1 1/4 above center with longer fade at top than bottom to give limbs same length...gut