Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: stuckinthemud on August 28, 2015, 03:59:32 am
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Hi All,
I don't have to tell the long story but I need to have a moan.....took my laurel pyramid bow to a floor tiller about 10# over final weight and put it on a low brace, found big hinge at 3/4 point of top limb, tillered it out and got to target weight then tillered in same hinge on bottom limb! Argh!! Now bow is WAY under , at 15# (started at 45) and is going to my daughter as her first bow, so lots learned and not a total loss, although it feels like it at the moment. Anyway, the bow is currently 67 inches long and not heat treated yet, although I plan to, and so I think I could pike it by 6 inches on each limb, or recurve the tips by the same amount, or even sinew the back. What would you all do, not sure which way to go at the moment but those are my options as I see it.
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Start another...
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Give it to you daughter and as Bad Chris said start another. Some do but I never try and get one that close to weight floor tillering, I get both limbs bending even and then go to long string until I get it ready to low brace. I want room to work with in case I have a problem. :)
Pappy
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This early on (bow number four) is all about learning, so now I know to put a string on it earlier and not get distracted into over-working one section of a limb. So I figure I can still learn from this bow, whether to go with finding out about recurving tips (most likely option at the moment), or what happens when you pike a bow, I'm not decided yet.
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Floor tiller to brace, that is your problem. You may have failed to mention using the long string but one can't go from floor tiller to brace and expect good results.
Go to the long string after floor tillering, tiller out the limbs to perfection with no pencil markings from your gizmo with a close setting and brace your bow. No hinges or surprises and you will be way over target poundage with plenty of room to head to your final poundage.
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Your wrong as wrong can be Eric. Some people have skills that others don't. Your paint brush is much too broad this time.
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Floor tiller to brace, that is your problem. You may have failed to mention using the long string but one can't go from floor tiller to brace and expect good results.
I hate trolling...BUT. This just isnt true for everybody....for a novice with less than a few dozen bows then yes. Long string with a straight edge or gizmo will def help someone who hasnt developed and trained there eyes to see a nice arc of bend,and there body to feel how much weight it is. 90% of my tillering is done on the floor,and i go straight to brace. I know several others out there who do the same with GREAT results. Once braced i still dont use a straight edge,gizmo,or even a tiller tree with a pulley anymore. And id like to think the bows ive posted doing this speak for themsleves.
Edit..dang pearl drums hitting send before i could....lol :laugh:
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I hope someday I can start to see the bend when floor tillering enough to go from floor tiller to brace, but until then, the long string is my friend!
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I guess I'm in the novice class even after 300+ bows.
I use a long string all the time.
It is so easy to see the bend of the limbs when using it.
More on my site.
http://georgeandjoni.home.comcast.net/
Jawge
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Yeh, about the long string, tried it, not enjoyed the experience, both on this bow and bow number 3 which went bang when I overstressed a hinge after leaving it in the hot sun for an hour; weird, the [yew] bow felt sort of soft when I drew it - nuther lesson learned). Bows number one and two went straight from floor tiller to a low brace of about 2" and bows number 5 and 6 went from floor to short string with no problem (pair of yew character bows nearly finished), so for me the long string doesn't seem to be working out too well. Bow number 7 is a really heavy war-bow and is in the very early stages; I like to bounce around several projects at the same time :D
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Chris and Bad Chris you notice I said some do, but I think you will both agree the for especially beginners Long string is much safer. There is never an [ALL DO] in self bow building but the majority of folks I know use a long string. Lots of way to skin a cat.
Pappy
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No doubt pappy, some benefit with a long string. Eric said a person cant build a good bow going from the floor to brace. He is dead wrong. SOME cant build a good bow without a long string is very true. Personally, don't care how anybody builds good bows. Just don't tell me it cant be done when I've done it a few hundred times.
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Yep very true Pearl, in most parts of bow building there is no real wrong or right way, just what suits the person building it, but if a person is having trouble with hinges he may want to try something different. :)
Pappy
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When one rouses up a couple ole timers by comments and gets them involved in a topic starting to heat up ya know ya done good ...hahaha >:D :laugh:
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yep ;)
Pappy
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I am here to learn all I can from y'all and have tried both floor tiller to brace, and long string, and at the moment the only bows I have struggled with are the ones where I used a long-string, so I think my long string may be too long ( no really, how much longer than the bow should a long string be, since my low brace strings are about 1 inch longer than the bow and I twist the string up as I raise the brace height) Any how, ;D regardless of where I went wrong in the first place , in the case of an over-long bow, would you pike it, recurve it, or something else? :) Having thought about it all day, I'm now thinking of doing both :laugh:
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Hinges aren't caused my skipping the long string or using it one. They are caused by wood being too thin or too narrow, or both. Its really that simple. If you prefer to skip the long string, get better at floor tillering and you can with no issues.
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Now personally i don't often use a long string and when i do it's tight, but desert disciple came over this last weekend and he is pretty new to building, so when i was helping him i used the tight long string to get him going and it probably was the way to go with a newbie
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fyi . . . I've been making my "long" string as short as possible while still resulting in 0" brace height.
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I make my long string as short as possible and get rid of it as soon as possible.
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I'm sooo skilled that I dont use a long string,, and when I brace the first time,, tiller is perfect and dead on target weight,, :) :) :)and I am legendary in my own mind :)
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That's all that matters Brad! Nobody else has to live in there :)
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so at 80" length, my long string is the wrong string and my short strings are long strings >:D
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Y'all are funny. I am in the floor tiller to string crowd. Right or wrong that's me. I turn out a pretty good one ever now and then. Arvin
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I've built bows without the long string.
I've also built bows with stone tools. Iron makes building a little easier.
The long string is just another tool in the tool box.
I'm just having some fun, PD.
You are in good company. Tim Baker does not use the long string either unless he saw the light and just started. :)
Jawge
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Im always just having fun Jawgey pooh, right up until somebody says it cant be done. Then I'm forced to be serious for a minute ;)
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I once tillered out a bow just using its shadow and feel. LOL, PD.
I don't want to do that often.
A lot of things can be done. :)
Jawgey pooh
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I still consider myself a beginner, but the more bows I build, the less I like using a long string, and the less I like floor tilling, and the more I like to just close my eyes and get handsy. Ok haha but really. Each person uses their own methods and we've seen throughout history too with different cultures. Long strings and floor tillering will always be tools in my toolbox and I will certainly make use of them in the future, especially on tricky staves. That's just what I've found works. For me.
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Pearl, you read something into my post that I didn't imply. The guy in question sounds like newbie, I don't think there are very many newbies with the skills to go from floor tiller to brace. I was giving the poster advice, the same advice I would give to any newbie.
Experienced bow makers have worked out a system that works for them and that might be floor tiller to brace. I don't recommend such but if it works for you go for it.
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I like to tiller mine the way Brad does. Unfortunately, right before I finish I wake up and realize that I'm late for work. >:D
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Brad, that is not true.
You are also legendary in my mind! :)
Jawge