Primitive Archer

Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Aries on August 22, 2015, 10:39:41 am

Title: Good intentions.
Post by: Aries on August 22, 2015, 10:39:41 am
I recently made my father in law an osage self bow for father day and he fell in love with it and has really got the shooting bug at this time. His self bow came in a little under weight so I thought I'd treat him to something a little more high performance.

I included him in the bow making process this time so he would have some more skin in the game and he is loving it.

Here is where things went wrong.  I had some ipe that has been in in my shop for the past 3 years just waiting for a good piece of boo. I had him get us some boo, we built the form together, and this is where I messed up.

I used the inner tube wrapping method for the first time, my 1/4 inch thick hickory power lam slipped south about 1.25 inches from center. No biggie right just make the bow shorter on one side to adjust, but Mr. excited Bowyer here(me) went ahead and got Gung ho right after unwrapping the bow and cut out an arrow shelf :embarassed:

I lay my quandary at thyn master bowyers feet and ask for your recommendations.
Thank you,
Ty
Title: Re: Good intentions.
Post by: Aries on August 22, 2015, 10:41:23 am
Bow total current length 64 inches, final goal draw 28" @ 55-60#
Title: Re: Good intentions.
Post by: Aries on August 22, 2015, 10:44:51 am
Bamboo is on with tb3, the handle is laminated with gorilla epoxy.
Title: Re: Good intentions.
Post by: bubby on August 22, 2015, 10:46:01 am
It looks like you cut the pass past center?
Title: Re: Good intentions.
Post by: Aries on August 22, 2015, 10:47:40 am
It's even to center.
Title: Re: Good intentions.
Post by: HighEagle on August 22, 2015, 10:51:04 am
I dont understand whats the problem? looks like a good start. Myself if I cut in a window I do wait a little longer till its shooting, Good luck, Chuck
Title: Re: Good intentions.
Post by: Aries on August 22, 2015, 10:55:10 am
My power lamination is 1.25 inches off center. It slipped towards the bottom limb of the bow. That is my issue I'm thinking  gonna have a massively unbalanced tiller when I get this thing bending , I'll have to compensate by taking a lot of the ipe off of the bottom limb right at the handle fade, I'm not sure if taking that much of the belly ipe wood off at the handle to compensate for the uneven power lamination is going to work out
Title: Re: Good intentions.
Post by: osage outlaw on August 22, 2015, 11:30:36 am
Disclaimer:  I don't know squat about lam bows. 

Why don't you go ahead and tiller it out?  It's already glued up.  If you can't take it apart and reuse the lams you might as well see what you can do with it. 
Title: Re: Good intentions.
Post by: sleek on August 22, 2015, 11:50:02 am
It slipped torwards the bottom limb. Thats the direction you want it to go if it was gonna go anywhere. Makes the bottom limb stiffer. Leave it be and tiller. Just dont work the fades too hard.
Title: Re: Good intentions.
Post by: Aries on August 22, 2015, 11:51:27 am
Ok guys I appreciate the feed back,  I was really hoping to not need to take this thing apart.  I'll post some pics as it progresses
Title: Re: Good intentions.
Post by: Badger on August 22, 2015, 11:59:02 am
  I started doing mine in two stages for the same reason you ran into, I glue on my pwer lam and the next day come back and do the rest of the lamination. Not really neccessary but I have had better luck doing it that way. I think your lam slipped a bit too far and may allow the handle to flex where the arrow shelf is cut out, maybe not but could be a problem.
Title: Re: Good intentions.
Post by: sleek on August 22, 2015, 12:01:42 pm
If he leaves it full length, and leaves his fades alone, he should be ok.... depending on draw weight and length.
Title: Re: Good intentions.
Post by: HighEagle on August 22, 2015, 02:24:40 pm
couldnt you sand it off and glue on a new one?
Title: Re: Good intentions.
Post by: sleek on August 22, 2015, 02:32:46 pm
Seriously,  just dont start any tillering until just past your powel lam.
Title: Re: Good intentions.
Post by: Pat B on August 22, 2015, 03:48:35 pm
How wide is your glue up? If narrow enough you shouldn't have any problems with tillering even if the bottom limb is slightly stiffer. That's how you want it anyway.
 Two tips...before doing a glue up drill 2, 1/8" holes through the power lam at the handle and into the boo slightly(not all the way through) and into the belly(not all the way through) so the holes line up with the components at their proper location. Add bamboo skewers or 1/8" dowels and use them as alignment pins so your components won't slip during the glue up. This is a trick Pearlie gave me and it works great.
 The second is never cut into or shape the handle area until the tillering is done. You don't need a shaped handle or tips to tiller a bow.
Title: Re: Good intentions.
Post by: sleek on August 22, 2015, 04:11:31 pm
Good advice above. Of course seeing who is giving it thats an obvious statement.  I do the skewer trick but with a bb instead.
Title: Re: Good intentions.
Post by: mikekeswick on August 22, 2015, 04:24:51 pm
No need to drill holes if you use strong tape to hold everything in place until you apply clamping pressure.
I agree with Badger. It's pretty dodge to cut to center anyway on a wood bow and with the powerlam going south it further weakens that potentially bow breaking weakness. The further to center you cut the stiffer your shafts need to be....a 60# bow cut to center for me would need 70# shafts. Good 70# spine wood shafts are hard to find.....
You have nothing to lose tillering it now (if it blows it blows) but personally cutting to center needs an I-beam in my eyes.
Title: Re: Good intentions.
Post by: Aries on August 22, 2015, 04:50:25 pm
How wide is your glue up? If narrow enough you shouldn't have any problems with tillering even if the bottom limb is slightly stiffer. That's how you want it anyway.
 Two tips...before doing a glue up drill 2, 1/8" holes through the power lam at the handle and into the boo slightly(not all the way through) and into the belly(not all the way through) so the holes line up with the components at their proper location. Add bamboo skewers or 1/8" dowels and use them as alignment pins so your components won't slip during the glue up. This is a trick Pearlie gave me and it works great.
 The second is never cut into or shape the handle area until the tillering is done. You don't need a shaped handle or tips to tiller a bow.

Pat this is genius I'll remember this. I definitely made a lot of rookie mistakes that could have been avoided
Title: Re: Good intentions.
Post by: Aries on August 22, 2015, 04:52:32 pm
I have it at a low brace and it hasn't blown up yet, but I'm definitely getting some bend at the fades I'm trying to work out of it
Title: Re: Good intentions.
Post by: sleek on August 22, 2015, 05:05:24 pm
You got a ways to go yet but I bet you can save it.
Title: Re: Good intentions.
Post by: PatM on August 22, 2015, 05:14:32 pm
 Is Gorilla Epoxy just quick curing type stuff? I don't like the long term prospects for this handle for a number of reasons.
Title: Re: Good intentions.
Post by: Aries on August 22, 2015, 05:16:51 pm
Handle is off im gonna beaf it up some more at the cut out. Ya pat the gorilla epoxy is like a 5 minute set 24 hour cure epoxy
Title: Re: Good intentions.
Post by: Aries on August 22, 2015, 05:21:14 pm
The handle is a full 1 5/8 inch thick at the arrow pass with this new handle I'm gluing on with tb3. I'll let it sit over night and continue tomorrow. I appreciate any and all feed back.
Title: Re: Good intentions.
Post by: sleek on August 22, 2015, 05:26:24 pm
After you finish tillering cut your arrow rest in. Do not cut as deep. Fill whats left of the old pass with anything you like and call it decorative. Make a wooden plug to fill it.  Do not allow the handle to extend past your power lam. It risks popping off.
Title: Re: Good intentions.
Post by: Aries on August 22, 2015, 05:42:16 pm
I'm know this is bow would be a whole lot better off sitting in the corner  of shame but I'm gonna stick with it and see what I can come up with. I'll keep yall posted
Title: Re: Good intentions.
Post by: bubby on August 22, 2015, 05:54:20 pm
For future reference on the next bow don't use 5min epoxy on a bow, no bueno
Title: Re: Good intentions.
Post by: Aries on August 22, 2015, 06:34:31 pm
Recommendations on glue then. I have heard of urac 185 but couldn't find it on amazon. Why not 5 minute epoxy?
Thanks
Title: Re: Good intentions.
Post by: Badger on August 22, 2015, 07:00:19 pm
How thick is it between the backing and the belly lam at the arrow pass?
Title: Re: Good intentions.
Post by: PatM on August 22, 2015, 07:05:02 pm
5 minute epoxy is bad for long term strength. TB is not a good choice for a stacked lam handle. Too much creep.
Title: Re: Good intentions.
Post by: Aries on August 22, 2015, 07:06:54 pm
The bamboo plus the power lam and belly are Right at 5/8 of a inch total thickness at the arrow pass.  And I have glued that big handle ok top of that now too.
Title: Re: Good intentions.
Post by: Badger on August 22, 2015, 08:11:35 pm
 5/8 is not thick enough for 50#, you will be at a big risk at 60#. If your handle holds you will be fine but its very iffy.
Title: Re: Good intentions.
Post by: bubby on August 22, 2015, 08:53:07 pm
Unibond 800 is the new urac
Title: Re: Good intentions.
Post by: Aries on August 23, 2015, 11:14:15 am
Well here it is. 40# 28 inches gonna put about 100 arrows through it and see what happens, there is minimal to no bend at the fades now with this beaded up handle. I'm not expecting it to last but I'll see what happens.
Title: Re: Good intentions.
Post by: Badger on August 23, 2015, 11:41:21 am
  At 40# you should be fine,
Title: Re: Good intentions.
Post by: GB on August 23, 2015, 07:17:08 pm
Hope the bow holds up for you.  You can buy Unibond online from a few places.  I usually get it from 3 Rivers Archery.
Title: Re: Good intentions.
Post by: blackhawk on August 24, 2015, 08:10:55 am
  . I think your lam slipped a bit too far and may allow the handle to flex where the arrow shelf is cut out, maybe not but could be a problem.

This concerns me as well...its borderline. Guess youll find out when ya tiller it...

Can u measure how thick it is at the deepest part of your cut,and also how wide it is there?