Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: sleek on August 04, 2015, 12:54:49 pm
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I have 4 ipe slats about 1/4 thick 2 wide. I want to boo back them and I think I need a core wood. I have some mahogany slats for at least one core. Rumor has it tight bond III is no good on ipe. Im wanting a 50-55#@28 bow here. Going with stiff handle. Beyond that my first ipe will be a straight d bow with 2"reflex
How thick does the core need to be if my belly slats are 1/4 thick? can i get away with tight bond? How narrow can i go on the bow?
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Rumor has it tight bond III is no good on ipe.
That's just nonsense. Titebond 3 works fine on any wood, including ipé, and bamboo.
I don't really like mahogany myself. As a core I'm sure it will work, but there are better woods.
Since you have quite a limited thickness, only 1/4", you'll need a core of sufficient thickness, preferably tapered. Depending on design, I'd make the core roughly 4 mm (handle) to 3 mm (tip) thick.
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Sleek - Search the Google for "Nelson UniBond 800". You'll find the link there to information on the glue I'd recommend. I wish we had spoken about it a bit more when you were here as I could have given you enough to make up a batch and try it out.
Comments on Woodweb despair of EVER gluing Ipe, ( http://www.woodweb.com/knowledge_base/Gluing_Ipe.html ) but I know it is and can be done in bow building. Many of the applications that fail are exterior use, and few of us leave our bows setting out in the rain and sun continuously. :)
Surface prep is key. It should be freshly worked and then very well wiped down with mineral spirits or acetone just prior to glue up.
OneBow
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TB3 doesn't work bad, but it slips unlike UniBond. Not sure if you remember my "Howard" bow? It was hickory backed ipe Hill styled. After a few hundred shots my riser slipped a bit and I can feel it in my fades. Im going to slice it off and glue it back on with Unibond, no more slipping.
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I use tb3 on mine sleek but i am probably gonna order some smooth on or a similar product, with the heat out here i need the extra working time , depending on the length i don't know if you really need a corr maybe a powerlam
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Here's a link to a further discussion of surface prepartion for oily tropical woods from the Wood Database guys. It has some good suggestions about technique for gluing up dense and oily woods.
http://www.wood-database.com/wood-articles/gluing-oily-tropical-hardwoods/
OneBow
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Would a rounded belly hurt things?
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Not at all. But 1/4" of ipé is not enough thickness to allow for a rounded belly. You'd have to use two of those laminations to make it work.
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Sleek i bet that a bow 1-3/8" wide straight taper from fades 62"ttt will be all you need it don't take much epe to make a 50# bow
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I have a 3/4" wide bamboo backing strip I am going to use to experiment with on my first bow. Will try for 62" 45#@28. Gonna splice in limb tips as the ipe is only 52" long. Will do a mahogany core and tight bond III glue because this is what I have.
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TB3 doesn't work bad, but it slips unlike UniBond. Not sure if you remember my "Howard" bow? It was hickory backed ipe Hill styled. After a few hundred shots my riser slipped a bit and I can feel it in my fades. Im going to slice it off and glue it back on with Unibond, no more slipping.
I remember that bow pearl. Wonder if a thick long powe lam and a shorter riser with paper thin fades would fix that?
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Is 1/4 too thick for the core lam?
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Yup way to thick
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Try 5/32 to 5/64
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Got it down to 5/32. Now, I am splicing in levers to take it out to 62". I wonder if 58" isnt better? I could deflex the handle then reflex the tips. Im not going for high draw weight...
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With that mahogany core I'd go 62" i tried it as a core once, didn't taper it and the core blew on me,
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I didnt know cores could blow. Wow. I think I will abandon this one and find another core then...
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A sliver of osage would look great with boo and epe
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A sliver of osage would look great with boo and ipe
yeah!
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For core wood think light and strong. i.e. walnut, elm, even hackberry.
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Man, this is killing me. I have lots of osage, but nothing I can split into slats. No elm or anything else.... well hickory maybe but splitting into slats wont happen, and I dont have a bandsaw.
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I took the limb of a half finished broken osage bow and split it in two halves. I can splice at the handle.see how this works out. Same 5/32 thicknes I assume?
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Yeah sleek, have you got a planer i use a hand held power planer to taper and if i was doing it I'd taper that corr saves a lot of work but do what you can
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I have a 3/4 horse belt sander and brand new ceramic 36 grit paper.
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Paduak makes a nice contrast between Ipe and Boo.
(http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd44/kmsnake/20150406_205532.jpg)
The other piece on the handle is Bloodwood, which is more burgundy color, while the Paduak is an orangy red.
Ken
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I glued one up Monday with tightbond and finished it on Tuesday. English longbow, full rounded belly, handle area not working. 1" wide, 62" long and straight taper to 3/8 tips. Mid limb should have been a bit wider as it took some set but shoots great. 50#@28". I am going to rebuild another one tomorrow and not use straight tapers to the tips.
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I wasnt able to get the osage slats to split correctly. So, back to mahogany. It has perfect grain though so it should stand a chance, I hope. Especially if I deflex the bow on glue up.
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(http://i1092.photobucket.com/albums/i411/rocketernally/20150805_182805_zps7f3nldfq.jpg) (http://s1092.photobucket.com/user/rocketernally/media/20150805_182805_zps7f3nldfq.jpg.html)
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I have self identified this as mahogany. Any corrections are welcome. It my planned core ( all I got ).
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Ya gots ta do what ya gots ta do right good luck buddy
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It could be sapele often sold as a mahogany lookalike but its heavier with more interlocked grain. According to the numbers on the wood database it should make a bow wood, but I've done multiple searches and am yet to fine it actually used so maybe its not great in practise.
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Go pick up a cheap maple board from one of the big box stores or local lumber yard/saw mill. Maples prob one of the best if not the best wood for cores..makes great backers too. N it should be plentiful and found most anywhere in the u.s.a.
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Yes it's probably sapele. It 'should' work as corewood but i'd choose maple every day.
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I've had a padauk core fail along almost the full length of a bow.....you can't use anything for a core ;)
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I bet maple would look very nice. I will see if I can find a board.
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I bet maple would look very nice. I will see if I can find a board.
Home Depot.
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With home depot being 40 miles from me and no lumber yard wiling to sell a maple board for reasonable price I went with what I already got. Tomorrow I will unwrap and see what we got. This shape was difficult with so few clamps. I hope the glue line is good. Its 70" long right now. Gonna tiller it down to 45@28 and keep piking and retillering it until its has 1.5" set or breaks.
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(http://i1092.photobucket.com/albums/i411/rocketernally/20150807_183005_zpsanwgqhn5.jpg) (http://s1092.photobucket.com/user/rocketernally/media/20150807_183005_zpsanwgqhn5.jpg.html)
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(http://i1092.photobucket.com/albums/i411/rocketernally/20150808_112236_zpsjb0y6pha.jpg) (http://s1092.photobucket.com/user/rocketernally/media/20150808_112236_zpsjb0y6pha.jpg.html)
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(http://i1092.photobucket.com/albums/i411/rocketernally/20150808_122711_zps57wildi9.jpg) (http://s1092.photobucket.com/user/rocketernally/media/20150808_122711_zps57wildi9.jpg.html)
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(http://i1092.photobucket.com/albums/i411/rocketernally/20150808_122427_zpsvjiqvkjh.jpg) (http://s1092.photobucket.com/user/rocketernally/media/20150808_122427_zpsvjiqvkjh.jpg.html)
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There were several problem glue line spots but on profiling most came out. Now there are one or two im not very happy with, one specifically on the tip area but that doesn't bend so fingers crossed. I took it down to 64". The back is trapped to allow the bamboo to feather into the wider belly. I hope that doesnt become a problem it was 1" wide and now 3/4" wide. It has 2.5" reflex, 1/4" deflex. I wish I had more deflex but my method was very...... unscientific, to say the least. Im hoping on the high end of things for 50#@28, but really, id just like it to hold together.
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http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,53561.0.html
My biggest problem is I never tillered a bow with this profile so I am relying heavily on Marc s thread linked above for proper tiller profile.
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I dont think that was ipe. It just went soft and colapsed. It was a little out of tiller but I was only pulling maybe 20# at 18 when it went.
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(http://i1092.photobucket.com/albums/i411/rocketernally/20150808_205844_zpsjd8syx9n.jpg) (http://s1092.photobucket.com/user/rocketernally/media/20150808_205844_zpsjd8syx9n.jpg.html)
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(http://i1092.photobucket.com/albums/i411/rocketernally/20150808_205848_zpsges9ddmb.jpg) (http://s1092.photobucket.com/user/rocketernally/media/20150808_205848_zpsges9ddmb.jpg.html)
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It even went into the core. So I will grind it all off and probably glue something else in, save the tips and the bamboo. The rest is useless. No way that stuff is bow wood.
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Looks to me like your belly failed :(
If I may though I would like to say that I have read about ipe and it's compression qualities and the general consensus seems to be that darker ipe is denser and less likely to fret or even outright fail in compression and that comparitively lighter color ipe is less dense and more fickle when it comes to compression. Maybe that contributed to the failure?
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You may be right on all accounts. I dont know. I also was told it was ipe but be could have been wrong.
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I actually just looked up some pictures of ipe wood and went and looked at some of the boards I have and I think what you have there was, indeed, lighter color ipe.
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Well, thats interesting then...
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I don't think it is.
I've handled a lot of ipe boards and totally agree that there is some lighter coloured, less dense wood out there. It comes from the ipe plantations that are being used now to supply the decking industry - like any quickly grown tree the wood is less dense and also less stable. I've had a couple of these boards and although they made bows the set was about double what I would get with good ipe. Having said that though there is no way any ipe would 'fold' like that unless you had a serious hinge and pulled it to full draw anyway!
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And that defiantly did not happen. Its a shame, such a beautiful wood.... and all that time. Waisted.
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I've made several ipe bows and I use 1/4 ipe for the core with Osage on the belly and backed with either hickory or bamboo. They shoot really nice
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So im thinking, grind off all the crappy belly wood, and either glue on a new osage belly or do a bamboo belly. If I use bamboo, do I need to carbonize it or is natural fine? Should I just glue it on just like a backing strip, crown and all or flatten the crown down? Do I only side tiller or normal thickness tiller?
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Do a search for dutch warbow he did a all boo build a long on tradgang
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Bamboo bellied bows are precise animals. You must have everything pre-tapered before glue up. You can't alter tiller much by side tillering. Good luck if you decide to go down that route but personally i'd want numbers from an already working bow before 'guessing'. It took me 4 attempts to get one dead on.....it's worth it when you get one right :)
Yes definately you want to heat treat the belly piece. Trap the back as well.