Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: clewis on May 15, 2015, 10:36:36 am
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Hi,
I have a question about flipping tips or adding some curves. Should I steam, boil or use dry heat, the stave has been reduced and is ready to go to the form. My only concern is a splinter lifting or cracking from dry heat. The stave I have in mind is white wood HHB.
Clewis
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I've tried flipping tips with dry heat on HHB twice and cracked them each time. I'm using steam on my next attempt. That's just my experience with it. I know other guys that use it more often have been able to flip the tips with dry heat.
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Ive had the same problem with dry heat, cracked width wise. I think I will try steam instead, any experience with steam bending white wood? I've got four well seasoned HHB staves with two being roughed out and about 30 fresh cut. Live for excess as some say...
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Grease it, steam it for @40 mins and bend it
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For a mild flip I use dry heat and a very smooth form, no sharp increases or decreases in movement per inch. If I'm putting in anything resembling a recurve I switch to steam.
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Soaking and boiling is the best option I think.
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Black Locust and maple bend easily with dry heat. ;) aggressive bending will create cracks and splits either way.
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Black Locust and maple bend easily with dry heat. ;) aggressive bending will create cracks and splits either way.
From many of the recurves ive seen on this site, many appear to me to be aggressive. How do they do it? Progressive bending or in one shot? Hmmm...
I like the idea of soaking and boiling, seems safer.
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Black Locust and maple bend easily with dry heat. ;) aggressive bending will create cracks and splits either way.
From many of the recurves ive seen on this site, many appear to me to be aggressive. How do they do it? Progressive bending or in one shot? Hmmm...
I like the idea of soaking and boiling, seems safer.
Yes some guys do it, but most have more experience than me. I tread lightly using heat is all I'm saying. I guess you do not know unless you try. Playing it safe may only get you limited results. I have built a few different types of bows and its always a learning experience and mistakes are made along the way but hey the challenge is there why not try it. ;D
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I've also found that getting an even bend near the weight you want helps. Even thin ringed locust seems to recurve better with the taper as opposed to with one ring across the belly- or at least I've had more success that way, but I've only made a handful of recurves.
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I boil/soak/steam everything but osage and even steam osage for a tight static, i tried that plastic tube and it works pretty darn good
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I have steamed Black Locust in a home made steamer, and steamed red oak by wrapping it with a wet rag and hitting it with the heat gun. Both worked. A smooth form is a must.
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My best results are with a good heat gun and a bending jig. The jig is just a 3 foot long 2 x 6 with a short piece of 2 x 4 screwed across the top with a one inch gap between a 5 inch hole saw also screwed on. I place tip of bow between wood block and hole saw and push a wedge in to fill the gap and hold the bow in place. I heat both sides of bow while carefully bending. You can feel the wood give as it gets hotter. Start at the wider part of your bend first and heat back towards the tips. If you get the wood too hot it will crack across the belly and quickly fail completely. I takes about a half hour per tip to get 4 inches of reflex but once it's in it doesn't come out and you can shoot the bow right after it cools.
(http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i127/fiddler49/Alaska%20white%20oak/P5240003_zps7pswm6ua.jpg)
(http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i127/fiddler49/Alaska%20white%20oak/P5240009_zpsi39jy3bs.jpg)
(http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i127/fiddler49/Alaska%20white%20oak/P5240006_zpsr9p8vrxb.jpg)
(http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i127/fiddler49/Alaska%20white%20oak/P5240013_zpsuagewsj8.jpg)
(http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i127/fiddler49/Alaska%20white%20oak/P5240016_zpsucbzolci.jpg)
this last pic shows how far you can bend the bow when it's hot. I'm holding it till it cools down.
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Here's a white oak board bow I used the same method to re flex tips 4 inches. cheers fiddler49
(http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i127/fiddler49/Alaska%20white%20oak/P5100027_zpsupffbwvp.jpg)
(http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i127/fiddler49/Alaska%20white%20oak/P5100029_zps7m16bhfg.jpg)
(http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i127/fiddler49/Alaska%20white%20oak/P5100031_zps34ix3yjv.jpg)
(http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i127/fiddler49/Alaska%20white%20oak/P5100032_zpsixsgteti.jpg)
(http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i127/fiddler49/Alaska%20white%20oak/P5100033_zpsh6nag73j.jpg)
(http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i127/fiddler49/Alaska%20white%20oak/P5100034_zps4oiptzy3.jpg)
(http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i127/fiddler49/Alaska%20white%20oak/P5100035_zpsf1ibt4zh.jpg)
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This is not like a caul. The 5 inch hole saw is just a fulcrum. The bend starts 8 to ten inches away from the hole saw. cheers fiddler49
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GREEN WOOD, STEAM
DRY WOOD DRY, HEAT
Don't add mosture to any white wood ,any wood for that matter. IF YOU ADD TO MUCH
( MOISTURE) WHEN YOU REMOVE OR LET IT DRY NATUTRALLY. You flip will lose,moisture ,lose bend in the flip.
ALWAYS DRY HEAT ON SEASONED WOOD.
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This was done with dry heat but I dont go much sharper before I switch to steam. the wood is hackberry and it was oiled well prior to heating.
(http://i.imgur.com/RPLn6Fu.jpg)
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(http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm165/jreefer454/198E2F48-A68C-4188-9545-D973308E5D5F_zps73rvzarb.jpg) (http://s296.photobucket.com/user/jreefer454/media/198E2F48-A68C-4188-9545-D973308E5D5F_zps73rvzarb.jpg.html)
Steam for 30 minutes is the way to go for me.
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GREEN WOOD, STEAM
DRY WOOD DRY, HEAT
Don't add mosture to any white wood ,any wood for that matter. IF YOU ADD TO MUCH
( MOISTURE) WHEN YOU REMOVE OR LET IT DRY NATUTRALLY. You flip will lose,moisture ,lose bend in the flip.
ALWAYS DRY HEAT ON SEASONED WOOD.
The dogma is strong in this post.
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Yeah, I don't use dry heat on wet wood but beyond that I decide based completely on the severity of the bend.
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Thanks for all the input, going try it out tonight. Should the thickness of bend or curve be at final dimensions?
Clewis
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I don't buy into the only dry heat on seasoned wood bit, most whitewoods are always steam bent and all tight statics
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Yeah, I don't use dry heat on wet wood but beyond that I decide based completely on the severity of the bend.
I'm in Marc's boat
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Well i got some good results, 40min steam session and its looking good. How long should I leave it clamped in place? I put a few inches in not as much as ryan's but it looks good. Ill post pictures up tomorrow.
Thanks for all the input and boost of confidence everybody.
Clewis
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Well i got some good results, 40min steam session and its looking good. How long should I leave it clamped in place? I put a few inches in not as much as ryan's but it looks good. Ill post pictures up tomorrow.
Thanks for all the input and boost of confidence everybody.
Clewis
I leave them in about an hour past cool. I've had my flips stay better if I heat temper the belly afterward.
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I do like huisme ,just depends but most time dry heat if the bend is not to severe. I try to keep it in the same growth ring on the belly also if possible ,that really helps to keep from lifting a splinter. :)
Pappy
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So I thought I`d make good and post my results of my steam session the other day. I still have to do the other limb but I think I wont have any problems doing so. I like how the steam works, no problems at all. I left the tips extra long thinking I would need it for leverage but don't think it was necessary and I will be cutting a few inches from the tip. I plan on an overall length of 58in reflexed tips and set back handle with some sinew.
I thought I'd post my latest haul as well, mostly HHB with some white ash. Most hhb staves range from 56-70inches.
Clewis