Primitive Archer

Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: jimmy on April 09, 2015, 03:22:14 pm

Title: The thinest possible growth ring for osage
Post by: jimmy on April 09, 2015, 03:22:14 pm
I am sure this has come up before, and i tried to research it, but I'll ask anyway.  What would be the thinest growth ring you guys would feel comfortable using for the back of an osage bow, ler's say 60" ntn, 50-55# @ 27"?  I have done 1/16", but have some staves that are slightly thinner.  Any experienced knowledge on this is appreciated.
Title: Re: The thinest possible growth ring for osage
Post by: Eric Garza on April 09, 2015, 03:29:44 pm
I worry less about how thick the ring is overall and more about the ratio between early to late wood. There's also limits in terms of patience when chasing a ring... That varies from person to person.
Title: Re: The thinest possible growth ring for osage
Post by: George Tsoukalas on April 09, 2015, 03:42:00 pm
Eric and Jimmy, around here osage doesn't grow on trees so I adapt. For thinner rings and for a not-so good- early to latewood ratio I leave the stave wider. Jawge
Title: Re: The thinest possible growth ring for osage
Post by: simson on April 09, 2015, 03:56:50 pm
As Jawge said!
I use every stave of osage.

It's osage! the best possible bowwood
Title: Re: The thinest possible growth ring for osage
Post by: Pat B on April 09, 2015, 04:28:51 pm
If you are concerned about violating thin growth rings just back the bow with rawhide, silk or linen. I also use whatever osage I can get my hands on.
Title: Re: The thinest possible growth ring for osage
Post by: sleek on April 09, 2015, 04:31:45 pm
Hehe this is a thread for me! I have some paper thin stuff you use a card scraper to chase. Of course, that thin you dont have to worry about chasing a ring, just get it close. Good candidates for decorative backings. No t for strength just to hide the islands of ring violations.
Title: Re: The thinest possible growth ring for osage
Post by: alwayslookin on April 09, 2015, 05:18:02 pm
Hehe this is a thread for me! I have some paper thin stuff you use a card scraper to chase. Of course, that thin you dont have to worry about chasing a ring, just get it close. Good candidates for decorative backings. No t for strength just to hide the islands of ring violations.
ring violations are OK on super thin rings ?
Title: Re: The thinest possible growth ring for osage
Post by: sleek on April 09, 2015, 05:54:39 pm
In my experience yes. The reson for that is so little ring is carrying the stress the next one down cane take some load also. Also you want any violations blended smooth with no abrupt changes. I will find a stave for an example and make a bow to show you.
Title: Re: The thinest possible growth ring for osage
Post by: osage outlaw on April 09, 2015, 06:18:36 pm
I'm going to try to make an unbacked bow from this stave.  I have a ring chased halfway down the length so far

(http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r55/clintanders/Mobile%20Uploads/20150322_001158.jpg)
Title: Re: The thinest possible growth ring for osage
Post by: Pat B on April 09, 2015, 07:56:26 pm
Clint it you get a good ring on the back of that stave I'd worry about the compression values of the belly. I'd still make a bow from it.  ;D
Title: Re: The thinest possible growth ring for osage
Post by: jimmy on April 09, 2015, 08:06:11 pm
I only make unbacked bows, so the whole thing revolves around the bow being structurally sound with a thin growth ring (not violated).  I have the patience to chase a pretty thin ring, I just don't want to waste my time doing so if it is going to explode.  On the other hand, I don't want to waste osage, especially this particular stuff.  It is that nice dark reddish osage.  Can a bow explode from too thin a ring on the back, even when not violated?  As for some of you not having osage, I feel for you guys.  Lot's of other wood out there, but osage has to be the king, at least for me.  Thanks for the input so far.
Title: Re: The thinest possible growth ring for osage
Post by: JonW on April 09, 2015, 08:37:23 pm
Jimmy did you see the stave Mikey was chasing a ring on at OJAM? Something like that stave I would get as close as possible and back it. I wouldn't bother trying a stave like that unbacked.
Title: Re: The thinest possible growth ring for osage
Post by: Badger on April 09, 2015, 08:41:31 pm
  Oulaw, that looks exactly Like what i was getting from IL it made great bows.
Title: Re: The thinest possible growth ring for osage
Post by: Danzn Bar on April 09, 2015, 08:52:10 pm
To play devils advocate, if OO's stave makes great bows....why does everyone harp on ring ratio?  It looks to me that this stave has a terrible ratio.
DBar 
Title: Re: The thinest possible growth ring for osage
Post by: sleek on April 09, 2015, 09:54:46 pm
Id use it and lebhuntfish has a bow I made from a very similar stave. Im sure he will chime in soon on its performance.
Title: Re: The thinest possible growth ring for osage
Post by: osage outlaw on April 09, 2015, 10:18:18 pm
I'm not sure how that bow will turn out.  I hope to have it roughed out in time for the Classic.  I don't want to back it.  I'm kind of curious to see what happens with it.  I know the ratio doesn't look good but the stave is very dense and heavy.  The slow growing trees like that on my property are tough as nails.
Title: Re: The thinest possible growth ring for osage
Post by: E. Jensen on April 09, 2015, 10:19:22 pm
Cherish those top rings.  After a few rings down, that stave is purely earlywood/vessels.  Would make a good straw.  Only thing you can do is go for it and see how it does!  A less than perfect bow is better than no bow.
Title: Re: The thinest possible growth ring for osage
Post by: sleek on April 09, 2015, 10:21:57 pm
Personally id just not chase a ring and use the sap under the bark.
Title: Re: The thinest possible growth ring for osage
Post by: osage outlaw on April 09, 2015, 10:29:48 pm
It has some checks.  I will have to go down a few rings.
Title: Re: The thinest possible growth ring for osage
Post by: Pat B on April 09, 2015, 10:58:46 pm
This is a bow I built a few years ago(Shere Khan) that had very thin rings. I rawhide backed it because it also had a few pin knots. She had over 1000 shots through her when she blew...but it was my fault...well, me and Evan Williams. I over drew the bow late one night when Evan bet me I couldn't.  ;D
 It turned out that a pin lifted a splinter when I over drew her. If it wasn't for my stupidity she'd still be shooting.
Title: Re: The thinest possible growth ring for osage
Post by: Sidewinder on April 09, 2015, 11:30:13 pm
So if we have a lifted splinter on a pin knot is that a death blow Pat? Or is its just a death blow if its overdrawn? Also, I have one I'm wanting to rawhide back that has a start of a splinter on a pin knot and I'm now wondering if its gonna do any good to back it. Will linen work as well as rawhide?

Jimmy go for it dude. YOU CAN DO IT?
Title: Re: The thinest possible growth ring for osage
Post by: George Tsoukalas on April 09, 2015, 11:32:29 pm
Jimmy, anything can happen but leaving thin ringed staves wider distributes stress over a wider area.
No way I would make a bow with a violated ring. If I cut through I go to the next one until I get it right.
I've never not been able to chase a ring on osage.
Jawge
Title: Re: The thinest possible growth ring for osage
Post by: lebhuntfish on April 09, 2015, 11:38:51 pm
Sleek is right, at least about the bow I got from him. The Rings are like the stave you posted. It shoots really good too, we shot it through a chronograph and it hit 173fps. Look me up at the classic. I'll have it with me and you can see it then if you want.

Sidewinder, just super glue the splinter and put some rawhide on with some hide glue. That is what I done with a Osage bow a while back. I have some rawhide I could offer to help you and the outlaw if you guys need it. Patrick
Title: Re: The thinest possible growth ring for osage
Post by: mikekeswick on April 10, 2015, 03:15:32 am
I've made a couple out of stave with rings just like those in the picture. No reason why you can't chase a ring on thin ringed stuff. Think about it...just because you've got a thick ring doesn't mean you can hack into it and expect it to be ok. So a thin ring is just like the start of a thicker ring....
Stop when you get to the earlywood above it and just go super slow exposing the intended back ring. Use sandpaper and just make 100% sure you don't 'dig in'. No problems!
Title: Re: The thinest possible growth ring for osage
Post by: Dances with squirrels on April 10, 2015, 06:16:30 am
I concur. Stay in one ring and make the bow. I've made them with osage just like the one in the picture. One that comes to mind was 36 rpi, VERY snakey, humpy, with a partially concave back as well. It took a little set, 1 1/2" I suppose, but it was early in my bowmaking and it's been hunted with a lot.
Title: Re: The thinest possible growth ring for osage
Post by: Dances with squirrels on April 10, 2015, 06:27:20 am
Chasing an osage ring at 30 rpi is easy compared to doing it on a thin ringed yew stave, and folks do it all the time. Just takes a little practice... and patience. I thinned the sapwood on a yew stave a week ago and scraped out a single ring. They were 55 + rpi. It's going to be 70-75 lbs and I'm not backing it.
Title: Re: The thinest possible growth ring for osage
Post by: jimmy on April 10, 2015, 09:51:13 am
Well, I'm almost done chasing the ring.  It has lot's of pin knots and the ring is a little thicker at one end than the other.  I'm going for it, if it breaks it breaks.  I will post pics asap.  I have enough osage for fire wood.  This piece of wood will reach it's highest potential, a bow. 
Title: Re: The thinest possible growth ring for osage
Post by: paco664 on April 10, 2015, 01:02:16 pm
Well, I'm almost done chasing the ring.  It has lot's of pin knots and the ring is a little thicker at one end than the other.  I'm going for it, if it breaks it breaks.  I will post pics asap.  I have enough osage for fire wood.  This piece of wood will reach it's highest potential, a bow.
there is a very wise man here says "if you ain't breakin you ain't makin"...


i break a lot of stuff... 8)
Title: Re: The thinest possible growth ring for osage
Post by: Pat B on April 10, 2015, 01:08:57 pm
Here is the pic of the bow I meant to post last night...
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/ShereKhanbroke001.jpg) (http://s5.photobucket.com/user/PatBNC/media/ShereKhanbroke001.jpg.html)
Title: Re: The thinest possible growth ring for osage
Post by: Danzn Bar on April 10, 2015, 05:32:25 pm
I'm with ya Jimmy....go for it!
DBar