Primitive Archer

Main Discussion Area => Arrows => Topic started by: RabidApache on March 20, 2015, 03:02:45 pm

Title: Old Native arrow (cave find)
Post by: RabidApache on March 20, 2015, 03:02:45 pm
 I hunt all throughout my reservation. While out and about I'm always on a constant lookout for "old places" of habitation, campfire scars, stone working debris and trails. In my apache language "the people before" and even my ancestors. My beliefs teach me not to TAKE or disturb these places. Very sacred sites. So with the highest Respect and of course MY curiosity I have seen many places and tools. So on one of my hunts while hiking I discovered an overhang with smoke staining. Quick look around I find grooves in bedrock, and mortar within a small area. I look into a small crevice and spot this gem. I can't say for sure of the maker of the arrow but I suspect N'deh bi'kaa (Apache arrow) with the tail stained in red orchre. My guess at least a 100yrs old or more since the sinew is still wrapped on the arrow! The main shaft is Mulefat I believe with what looks like a Mtn Mahogany foreshaft. Enjoy.

I never took any measurements other than mentally.
(http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l102/desertHARE/PC110281_zpsfc6jnfpj.jpg)
(http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l102/desertHARE/PC110282_zpsvb3nzmb5.jpg)
(http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l102/desertHARE/PC110280_zpsfmbqz1mt.jpg)
Title: Re: Old Native arrow (cave find)
Post by: Pat B on March 20, 2015, 03:29:36 pm
Very cool find.  8)   Good for you for respecting the sacred areas and artifacts.
Thanks for sharing.
Title: Re: Old Native arrow (cave find)
Post by: JEB on March 20, 2015, 03:49:57 pm
OUTSTANDING.  If you think about it can you post other artifact finds when you find them. I really enjoy looking at this history.
Title: Re: Old Native arrow (cave find)
Post by: Swampman on March 20, 2015, 09:45:29 pm
Wow, thanks for sharing this.  What a great find.  You just made my night.  I don't think I could ever get tired of looking at old artifacts.
Title: Re: Old Native arrow (cave find)
Post by: crooketarrow on March 20, 2015, 10:03:30 pm
  VERY COOL
Title: Re: Old Native arrow (cave find)
Post by: Adam on March 20, 2015, 11:59:59 pm
That must be quite a feeling discovering something like that. Thanks so much for posting the pictures. It's fascinating seeing finds like this.
Title: Re: Old Native arrow (cave find)
Post by: chamookman on March 21, 2015, 04:03:40 am
Nice - great find ! Bob
Title: Re: Old Native arrow (cave find)
Post by: Buckeye Guy on March 21, 2015, 09:38:27 am
Way cool !
Title: Re: Old Native arrow (cave find)
Post by: nclonghunter on March 21, 2015, 07:56:19 pm
Awesome, you can feel the energy from the past...Thank you
Title: Re: Old Native arrow (cave find)
Post by: Halcon rojo on March 21, 2015, 11:26:39 pm
That is one of the coolest things. Thank you so much for posting it.
Title: Re: Old Native arrow (cave find)
Post by: JackCrafty on March 21, 2015, 11:33:50 pm
Fantastic Find!  :)
Title: Re: Old Native arrow (cave find)
Post by: Jodocus on March 22, 2015, 04:24:45 am
I really like your way of thinking and talking about relics. If it remains dry, both wood and sinew can last very long.
Title: Re: Old Native arrow (cave find)
Post by: DC on March 22, 2015, 05:12:12 pm
Excellent self control. I don't think that anyone I know would have left it there.
Title: Re: Old Native arrow (cave find)
Post by: sleek on March 22, 2015, 05:52:10 pm
I woulda took it, with lots of pics where it lay, then took it to a museum local.
Title: Re: Old Native arrow (cave find)
Post by: RabidApache on March 23, 2015, 11:48:02 am
-JEB Here's another cool find while out chasing a gobbler one year. Myself and brother were close to bagging his Tom but he just wouldn't come out in the clear. Well anyway, so I'm in the background trying to talk dirty to the ole'tom when I noticed a hollowed out rock. It blended in with all the other stones in a narrow gully with the "rock" covered in lichen. I walk over and then noticed it was pottery. Leaf liter was all around. I motioned my bro to come and check this out. We stood in awe and took pictures. Further investigation I notice the missing pieces trailing up the embankment under leaf liter. What you see here is what we "pieced" together. After our fill, we gathered the broken bits placed them in the still intact lower 2/3rds and cached it waaaaay back up where we thought it rolled down from. You can actually see the fresh "scratching" we did as we looked for the broken bits in the picture.
Funny thing I can remember, even while putting the puzzle back together the wise ole'tom was still gobbling less than 100yds. We had just forgot about the hunt at that point. Later we felt GOOD about the find and placing it outta site. We never did kill that particular bird.
To answer why we (myself and bro) do not take things like artifacts- I was taught as kid from my Pops and grandparents that these artifacts I discover is meant to remain out there where you find it. In my custom, these items may have been a burial site or a special place for people long ago. I respect that so no Bad Medicine or sickness will affect myself or others.
(http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l102/desertHARE/P3280333_zpsaxbkniwp.jpg)
Title: Re: Old Native arrow (cave find)
Post by: Buckeye Guy on March 23, 2015, 12:36:19 pm
Another nice find !!
Title: Re: Old Native arrow (cave find)
Post by: JackCrafty on March 23, 2015, 01:50:38 pm
Wow!  Very cool.
Title: Re: Old Native arrow (cave find)
Post by: Oglala Bowyer on March 23, 2015, 02:57:06 pm
Thanks for sharing!!  We (Lakota) have the same belief when we come across the same artifacts, in which we leave them alone.  The same goes if we take an artifact with the firm belief we will be riddled with hard luck because the artifact may be part of a burial.  It belongs where it lays and certainly not in any museum.
Title: Re: Old Native arrow (cave find)
Post by: JW_Halverson on March 23, 2015, 08:13:38 pm
I can only wish the worse of afflictions on the sorry pieces of work that make a career of pot hunting.

Thanks for sharing, that's some wonderful pot making skills there! 
Title: Re: Old Native arrow (cave find)
Post by: Buck67 on March 25, 2015, 07:50:31 pm
My Grandmother was an Inuit from Baffin Island.  In her culture, if a hunter was out and broke his gun and there was a good one on a burial mound, it was OK to leave the broken one and take the good one.  It was not OK to take a thing and not leave something of equal value.

I have always thought that the archeologists that are always digging should put the people back in their earth with replacements for anything taken.  That would mess up future diggers to find a 1,000 year old person with stainless steel bowls.
Title: Re: Old Native arrow (cave find)
Post by: Jim Davis on April 01, 2015, 10:06:31 pm
In many cases, it seems likely that broken things left out in the open were just considered to be useless. Things arranged together, may well have been placed for some purpose. Just as today, an aluminum pop can in the ditch has no spiritual significance and can be picked up by anybody who wants it. But flowers and a cross placed together at the side  of a road obviously are meant to memorialize something.

No matter. Very nice to find things like those.
Title: Re: Old Native arrow (cave find)
Post by: mullet on April 05, 2015, 04:27:44 pm
Very cool! Even though I dive the rivers here for artifacts and fossils, I have the utmost respect for your beliefs and how you treat your finds.
 Thanks for posting these pictures.
Title: Re: Old Native arrow (cave find)
Post by: beartail on April 07, 2015, 10:32:24 am
Absolutely awesome! I understand your view on takeing artifacts. its like kicking over someones headstone or something like that.it just don't feel right and you know its wrong.respect.
Title: Re: Old Native arrow (cave find)
Post by: PEARL DRUMS on April 07, 2015, 01:04:19 pm
That is a very rewarding find. My questions is this, why don't the critters chew that sinew off? You'd think pack rats or something like that would eat it.
Title: Re: Old Native arrow (cave find)
Post by: mikekeswick on April 13, 2015, 03:37:58 am
What would be achieved by picking something up that never belonged to you and taking it to a museum....
Your beliefs and traditions should be all that governs what happens to finds like these. I respect you for not doing what a lot of people would have done.
Thank you for sharing the pictures with us.
Title: Re: Old Native arrow (cave find)
Post by: sleek on April 14, 2015, 01:30:18 am
What would be accomplished by taking it to a museum? Im under the impression that museums are a great way to preserve artifacts and allow the public to view and appreciate it. As opposed to leaving it under a rock where it will eventually degrade, I would assume that it would be the logical thing to do. No criticism towards you for your sentiments on how you prefer it be handled. To each their own and thats fine.
Title: Re: Old Native arrow (cave find)
Post by: Oglala Bowyer on April 16, 2015, 09:05:03 am
It might sound counterintuitive to just leave it and let nature take its course but when you're brought up with your culture and language you learn to respect the fact that something like the pot or arrow is there for a reason. Perhaps as an offering or part of a burial. In any of the two examples, something like this holds no place in a museum. Besides museums are notorious for holding items that were taken from graves. Sad but true.
Title: Re: Old Native arrow (cave find)
Post by: sleek on April 16, 2015, 10:00:35 am
You shouldnt take things from graves.