Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => English Warbow => Topic started by: WillS on March 08, 2015, 02:13:41 pm
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For those interested, Joe Gibbs broke another world record today, sending a Livery arrow (Mary Rose replica, 63.5g) 306 yards from an Ian Coote bow. The weather was diabolical with rain, wind and freezing cold (typically the day before was perfect!) but he still managed it, along with sending a Standard arrow 311 yards.
Considering how bloody horrible the weather was today, he should be able to get even more out of it on a better day, so maybe in May there'll be an even bigger distance.
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Nice to hear that. Congratulation! 8)
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Your bow that Mark was shooting was a work of art, Michael.
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That is impressive regardless of bow weight! What was the previous record? o you know the approx bow weight?
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Previous record was Joe's as well (nobody can touch him at the moment!) and was 292 yards. He shot the same bow today, an Ian Coote 170lb Italian yew.
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Thats was an exremely well made bow and well shot arrow. I had my doubts if I would ever see the 300 mark broken. I think it will take more weight to break his record, I love it when I see what I feel is an almost unbreakable record set. Someone will probably come along and break it though.
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...yes, probably with a lighter bow. ;)
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306yds with an EWBS Livery arrow!!!! Holy cow :o :o :o Maximum respect to Joe ;)
John T. :)
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He'll probably do better in May. You coming to Black Cat John?
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I must really take issue with WillS over this world record business, I didnt realise that the EWBS had the authority to designate their shoots ,to qualify for world record status .I haven't seen a list of adjudicators ie.weights and measures ,met. office, to check wind velocity and direction ,a dendrologist to check bows to find out whether is was wide grained english yew or close grained italian yew ,grown at 10,000 mts. ,last but not least a representative from the Guinness Book of Records to verify and record the result.
The above conditions must be met to qualify for entry in the above
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Take issue by all means. I'm just posting it for anybody interested who's not on Facebook or came to the shoot.
I may be wrong but I don't think a record needs to be entered by Guinness to be a world record. That just makes it a Guinness world record. If nobody else has done it, it's a world record. Feel free to correct me on that, however.
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If people accept EWBS records then it is an EWBS record in accordance with their rules. It is a very worthy record!
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Hi
You should call it a EWBS record only and not a world record, because thats what it really is and nobody would have any problems with that.
Kind regards
Andi
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1. Fakt: they call it EWBS Record. Noone talks about a world-record... :o
2. Fakt: noone has reached more then 300yds with an EWBS Livery arrow before...
btw. why these discussion?! ???
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I called it a world record in the initial post, because as far as I'm concerned it is!
As you said, NOBODY has done it before. That means Joe is the first in the world. That makes it a world record, regardless of the grain of the bow, the wind direction and the colour of his socks.
Some people find it inherently difficult to praise others for their achievements. I was hoping to avoid this by saying "for those interested" but clearly it didn't work ;)
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You don't think it was done back in the day when heavy bows were the norm?
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As you said, NOBODY has done it before. That means Joe is the first in the world. That makes it a world record, regardless of the grain of the bow, the wind direction and the colour of his socks.
LOL
Well done Joe!!
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Someone posted on another site that Simon Stanley shot a 101 gram arrow 302 yards! Does anyone know anything about this shot?
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Simons a big flatbow/recurve fan. Wouldn't be surprised if he did it with something like a flatbow. As far as I'm aware it's never been done with a self longbow.
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It was supposedly done with a self yew elb. It might have been done unofficially.
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It cant be a world record,Will wasnt there at the time. ;) ;)
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This one Badger http://leatherwall.bowsite.com/TF/lw/thread2.cfm?threadid=169135&category=88 from 2008
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It was supposedly done with a self yew elb. It might have been done unofficially.
Very cool if it's genuine. Its a testament to the modesty of guys like Simon and Joe when stuff like this happens and isn't recorded officially.
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Huge congratulations to Joe and Ian for the EWBS livery record. Smashing 300 yards is a massive achievement.
Regarding the other point, Simon shot the 340 yard distance at a I.L.A.A. FLIGHT CHAMPIONSHIP with a war arrow which seems to be linked to the Fraternity of St George around 2006. It would have been with alongbow and ‘Military’ arrow which is 75g and 1/2" diameter. He must have accomplished something similar with the Mary Rose Trust whist testing with the late Roy King.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/obituaries/technology-obituaries/6840541/Roy-King.html
It begs the question what ‘officially’ is. FITA records are measured with a taught steel tape and a theodolite type thing to record to the inch and requires billiard table flat land. I suspect this is more accurate/exacting than the EWBS' (and certainly Warbow Wales’, for that matter) methods.
I think the issue Brian has is the term ‘world record’ which would imply a hierarchy of whose records and arrows are most ‘official’ and whose others positively 'un-official'. It could be read as a bit self-promoting. Regardless, it is a truly brilliant accomplishment by all concerned.
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What's the status on the strings? Was Simon's shot perhaps made with modern string material?
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Not really the point, but I doubt it.
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Just to clarify, nobody is officially claiming that its a "world" record. I used that term because (as far as I'm aware) nobody in the world has managed to shoot a Livery arrow from a Mary Rose class bow 306 yards. If that can be otherwise proven then great. As it stands, it's the first record of it occurring which (in my mind) makes it a world record.
If I've got the definition of "world record" wrong, I'd be more than happy to know the correct one. I do however currently stand by my belief that a world record is quite simply a record set under globally accepted specifications, which this is, considering the EWBS specifications for arrows and bows are accepted worldwide.
Certainly if the EWBS specs were only accepted in the UK, this wouldn't be a world record. ;)
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I call it perty good bow building. Heavyer the bow the hardest it is tiller.
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Just a little info on the 101 grain arrow shot it was a hazel wand stripped and sanded and a spine of 240
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Re my last post, did any body notice my deliberate mistake ten out of ten if you did, should read 101 GRAMS,not grains ::)
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Bullshit. If Simon should shoot this 101grams (1600grain) arrow over 300yards with a 160#@32" bow, then he need a arrowspeed over 300fps. ::)
But THEN it will be the first selfbow on the whole planet, who shoot over 200fps with a arrowweight of 10grain per pound drawweight.
So we know, that's nonsense...
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You're either not really understanding the ballistic equation or have an overly high value for R, the actual weight of the projectile at a given speed only helps the distance achieved.
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2009 in Stowe, Alistair Aston shoot a 1/4pounder (1749grain) 240 yards with a 155 lbs selfyew from Spencer. That's the actual EWBS 1/4er record with a yew selfbow. I know which distances you can reach with a yew bow, i hold a actual GWBS (German Warbow Society) Flight Record with 282yards. So please don't try to teach me in ballistic equation. ;)
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What you've said isn't math at all though it's just other distances.
I have just tried to type it out but the signs don't work on this editor, I will link you to the equation on another site here: http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/traj.html
Go to the velocity section and you will see an object travelling at 60m/s (193fps) from an angle of 45 degrees will land 367.3469387755102 meters away from point 0.
I really don't care for your personal distance it's not all that impressive if you do the numbers higher distances are very possible. Now this doesn't include R which is resistance, 99% of that is air resistance but this can always be reduced by good conditions and arrows.
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The 10 grains per pound 200 fps" impossibility" is at 28" not '32"
Maybe Simon just has a way better "rolling loose" lol
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Whatever... try it out. Try to bring a 1600grain arrow to 300yards. Or try to bring a simple 10gpp arrow to 300yards. 8)
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Whatever... try it out. Try to bring a 1600grain arrow to 300yards. Or try to bring a simple 10gpp arrow to 300yards. 8)
Simon did, you just didn't want to believe it.
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...maybe yes. maybe no. there is no offical list to see that. only a arrow...
And if he does that, than not with a self-yew.
I know that simon shoot a hickory-backed oregon yew from chris boyton for a long time. glued with a reflex in the bow these distance could be possible. but never ever with a 1600 grain arrow on a 160# self-yew
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That record does seem quite impossible at 10 grains per pound. For comparison a modern recurve bow shooting 9 grains per pound reached a distance of about 330 yards and is considered one of the strongest records held. I hold a 10 grain per pound record with a backed bow at 230 yards and another with a self bow at 221 yards.
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THANK you for your support! ;)
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...maybe yes. maybe no. there is no offical list to see that. only a arrow...
And if he does that, than not with a self-yew.
I know that simon shoot a hickory-backed oregon yew from chris boyton for a long time. glued with a reflex in the bow these distance could be possible. but never ever with a 1600 grain arrow on a 160# self-yew
I do not recall that Simon's bow had any reflex glued in as I followed the build along in The Glade. It was constructed from joined billets backed with and a few growth rings of hickory. In terms of performance it should have performed the same as a self bow - unless you count exploding at full draw because the sapwood was not in a good enough condition.
Either way, I'm not sure what you mean by 'official'. You have a distance, you have a bow type/draw weight and you have an arrow. You either accept it was shot or not. Perhaps you mean it was not done under the auspices of the EWBS or GWBS.
Incidentally, the laminated heavy longbow EWBS records are no further than the selfbows.
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[never ever with a 1600 gram arrow out of a 160 lb self yew] thats stierscheiss you want to find yourself some decent yew
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ok, you are right and i have no idea about yew and bows. ;)
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From a purely mathematical standpoint a shot of 340 yards with a 1600 grain arrow would require about 164 ft #'s of kinetic energy. It is unlikely that any long bow will exceed 70% efficiency. If the bow was storing about 170# of energy @70% this would leave him with about 119# of energy. This would give him about 183 ft per second which is outstanding, almost too good to be true for this design. 183 fps should give an archer no more than about 240 yards. Anything over 200 yards I would consider a good shot.
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From a purely mathematical standpoint a shot of 340 yards with a 1600 grain arrow would require about 164 ft #'s of kinetic energy. It is unlikely that any long bow will exceed 70% efficiency. If the bow was storing about 170# of energy @70% this would leave him with about 119# of energy. This would give him about 183 ft per second which is outstanding, almost too good to be true for this design. 183 fps should give an archer no more than about 240 yards. Anything over 200 yards I would consider a good shot.
That would depend somewhat on the ballistic coefficient of the projectile Steve. Heavy projectiles tend to fight drag much better than light projectiles
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Mark, I thought about that. I added a little for it. It would be nice to shoot the heavy arrow at a known speed and then measure the distance. The reported distances that usually come in suggest that the difference is not too great once you get past about 400 grains. I believe the livery arrow also has larger fletching which would tend to ballance it out.
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Hi Blacksmith,
Sorry to hear that you have had limited experience with the ELB and yew i did not realise this ,but dont despair ,keep trying and one day ,you may be able to to make a 160lb self yew that will shoot a 101 gram arrow 300yds plus,btw if you could make it to a FARAS shoot when you are next in England, they would be pleased to see you,the only trouble is they concentrate much more on accuracy than distance ,which you might find a bit boring ,also there are some expert bow makers who i am sure could advise you on any problems you might have. Hope to see you soon. ::) ::)
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From a purely mathematical standpoint a shot of 340 yards with a 1600 grain arrow would require about 164 ft #'s of kinetic energy. It is unlikely that any long bow will exceed 70% efficiency. If the bow was storing about 170# of energy @70% this would leave him with about 119# of energy. This would give him about 183 ft per second which is outstanding, almost too good to be true for this design. 183 fps should give an archer no more than about 240 yards. Anything over 200 yards I would consider a good shot.
Badger, could you explain how you calculated this?
What drag coefficient do you use?
thanks
joachim
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Hi Blacksmith,
Sorry to hear that you have had limited experience with the ELB and yew i did not realise this ,but dont despair ,keep trying and one day ,you may be able to to make a 160lb self yew that will shoot a 101 gram arrow 300yds plus,...expert bow makers who i am sure could advise you on any problems you might have. Hope to see you soon. ::) ::)
Sorry, but: LOL ;D 8)
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Joachim, I don't know how to figure the drag coeffiecient. I just know from experience what speeds it takes to get out to 300 yards. As Mark suggested this somewhat changes with arrow mass but not by all that much. Just from what I have seen it takes a minimum of about 205 fps to hit 300 yards.