Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: tom sawyer on January 29, 2008, 11:43:32 pm
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When you fall off a horse you gotta get right back on. After the appropriate number of days off, we've started back on getting Jimmy his own homemade bow.
I managed to find another set of billets over the weekend. Got them cut out and spliced on Sunday, heat-straightened the limbs and then glued on a handle Monday,and cut the handle to shape this morning before work. I'm getting better at the z-splice, this tiem the billets fit together very nicely right off the saw. This bow is shorter than the last one, its 65" tip/tip. The spliced billets have more natural reflex and were straighter to begin with, I just had to straighten one outer limb. The blank has a good 3" of reflex. Almost too much, I was half-tempted to splice in a bit of deflex in the handle but didn't. I warned Jimmy that a lot of reflex means the bow will be tough to get to weight and easy to blow past it. We'll watch out for that best we can.
Jimmy came over tonight (in a mini-blizzard) and started again. He used the ultimate bowyers rasp again and got both limbs down to a real stiff floor tiller stage in about an hour. The bow looks even, the rings are running down the middle on both limbs. I may cut nocks myself and start a bit of tiller stick work to keep things moving along for him. I'd like for us to get the bow reasonably smoothly tillered next session. Then I'll send him home with a rasp to shape the handle and nocks.
We're already talking about his next project too, maybe a short sinewed bow.
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Was all this bowyering before or after the venison philly cheese steak sandwiches? :)
I've got to learn to splice billets. I've got a bunch of nice 40" pieces of wood.
I've also got some nice 70" pieces but I hate to waste the short ones.
Jimmy is sure making faster progress than I did on my first osage bow!
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Splicing is really not that difficult. I'm not using any jigs or anything, just sort of squaring up the stock to about the smae thickness, drawing the lines and making the cuts freehand. With URAC or resorcinol you don't have to be perfect anyway. Jimmy doesn't waste time, and the rasp is very aggressive but easy to control.
There was a nap right after the philly cheese steaks as I recall.
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This one oughta be a dandy from the looks of that stave, nice work Lennie and Jimmie.
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Tom sawer, is that bench better on the back cause I think I'll Make one of those. I got the same kind of vise too.
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Looks like he is back on the horse,that is what you have to do,I have fell off many times.
You are doing a great service,looks like he is hooked,hook ,line and sinker. :) Good lookig
stave.
Pappy
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PK I personally prefer using a vise on my bench where I can stand and work. But its harder to see both sides of the blank like that. With the bench you can check out both edges quickly so it is handy. And I have a bunch of junk on the workbench right now so it wasn't an option. I made the bench out of a 2x8, 8'. 1.5' for each of two legs, and a 5' seat. I cut out at the feet of each leg and used that wood to bolster the legs so it wouldn't rock back and forth and pull the screws out.
Pappy yep he's a bowyer now and its nice to have a little guy time each week. We're planning a trip to hunt elk in Wyoming next fall, my old bowyering friend moved out there last fall. And Jimmy will be hitting MOJAM this year with his boy.
Dano the last one looked pretty good too. But I do have high hopes as always. I'll be getting to do a little more on this one, since he's been through the process himself once already. Straightening up the floor tillered blank mostly. I still want him to get to do most of the work himself.
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Way to go TS. We have to pass it on or there will be nothing left to pass on! Jawge
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Good Job Lennie, you can't keep it if you don't give it away!! Steve
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I did try to convince him that the blank looked like a good left-handed bow. He wasn't buyin' that.
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Lennie, I didn't mean there was anything wrong with the first stave, just that I like this one.
Now "get r dun"!!! ;D
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Well here it is over a month later. Between Jimmy having pneumonia, me being sick and then some snow goose hunting and church events getting in the way, its been slow going. After a couple of sessions, he had it floor tillered but one of the nocks started to split so we had to do walnut overlays to shore that up. Tonight he went to town on the tiller, went from 50lb@20" to 64lb@28". he wants about 60lb and I figure the bow will settle in at about that after he shoots it in. We kept a full inch of reflex after tillering and shooting it 20 times. The thing shoots where he aims, first shot at 20 yards was a heart. Couldn't say that about his last bow, the low poundage was throwing him off I think. In any case, I was just a little leary of leaving the bow at 60lb since it is only 62" t/t but the tiller looks nice and we made sure to get the limbs bending to just outside the fades. So if it lasts the week of Jimmy shooting it in, I'll rest easy and be glad we went for it.
Here's some pics taken tonight. This isn't ready for BOM yet, we have finishing and maybe snakeskins before its ready for prime time.
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Excellent! I see no reason why this bow shouldn't make it. Tiller looks right on. Good work, Jimmy and Lennie. Pat
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Really nice guys. Let us see it when you "doll" it up with the skins. >:D
Otoe
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nice bow! tiller looks goooood!
frank
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Bow came out great held it's profile nicely. Looks like she has some speed to her. Steve
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What do you think about the ultimate rasp? Good looking bow! Ever shoot snows with the bow?
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Outstanding Lennie. 62" is plenty for 60# @ 28", it's bodock son. It don't start gettin' good till you get down inside of 62".
Kinda sucks, but still fun, to meet a prodigy huh? Reminds me of Manny. 'At boy got game, unless you been running the rasp and scrapers for him.
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Very wll done.Tiller looks great.Nice bow. :)
Pappy
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Wow! That bow is so nicely tillered. Nice to see. Jawge
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Thanks everybody.
Steve, yes I actually hope it loses that last inch of reflex. Just as soon not have it so loaded up with stress. The follow we got was very asmoothly distributed so I think it speaks well for the tiller.
Tracy I really like the rasp, it takes wood off very quickly but still leaves a surface that is easy to scrape smooth.
Mims I suppose you're right about hedge. I didn't run any tools, just griped at him almost constantly. He does catch on quick and he got pretty good about looking at the bow to see where things wee a little thinner/thicker. And best of all, he never had the tendency to want to rush this bow, when we identified a place to work he'd unstring it immediately. Nothing like breaking a bow to make you a little more cautious.
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Somehow I knew the second bow would be a winner, nice work guys.
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Gotta say it was the opposite for me Dano. I really worried giving him a shorter blank for the second try, but I had those billets already ring-chased and laid out and I was too lazy to start from scratch. Jimmy called me up last night, I held my breath waiting for him to say the bow blew but he was just telling me how well it shot with his arrows. I guess I'll quit being paranoid now. Although I do want him to sand it good in order to drop what weight we can from the bow without affecting tiller.
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Once bitten, twice shy they say. ;D
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Lennie, thats just great. You guys look like your having a grand ole time. I have to tell ya I'm jealous of Jimmy. He is blessed to have you as his mentor in bowyering. Maybe if I'm a good boy he will give me one too. Keep on making shavings my man. I look forward to seeing wht you guys come up with.
About that bowyers tool. If I remember correctly it sells for around 60.00. In your opinion is it worth the money? I have the utmost esteem for Dean Torges and know he would'nt put out a sub par product, I have thought about getting one but would like some feedback from someone that has used both that one and then some others in comparison. Your feedback is greatly appreciated.
Danny
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Danny I spent many years not willing to drop the coin for a Nicholson rasp. I tried a number of cheap rasps, all of which worked OK but not great. When I finally did procure a Nicholson 49 (on sale for $35) I realized that these tools allow you to do work better, faster and with less effort. So I'm more willing to try new products now. The Ultimate Bowyers Rasp (UBR) is better than a Nicholson in my opinion. Its teeth are sharper, deeper and still smaller so it cuts fast and still leaves a pretty smooth surface. The dual handle is also a big enhancement, you can put more pressure on it this way. The rasp has a coarse and a fine side, the coarse really moves wood and the fine cuts quickly and very smoothly. The teeth are hand-raised, very narrow and they don't seem to clog as much as the Nicholson. Mine has seen action for several months now and seems as sharp as when I bought it. Sharpness is measured more in years than months though.
The one thing I wish the UBR had was a half-round side, I tend to use the rounded sidee of the Nicholson a lot. Although, I think some of that preference comes from having your pressure on fewer teeth, and you don't need that with the UBR.
In conclusion, I'm happy with the UBR. Is it worth $60+? Depends on whether its your last $60. I'm happy with mine.
Another Torges offering I'd recommend, is the small rattail file for nocks. A definite improvement over a chainsaw file.
And of course theres the Bowyers Edge. I have a love/hate relationship with mine. Its handy but I have gravitated away from it, preferring a simple cabinet scraper.
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Lennie put it very well, to put it simply it's a quality tool, a guy could bet by with a cheaper tool, but once you've slept in silk sheets your ruined ;D
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See how ya are. Yer gettin me all lathered up now and I'm Jonesun for a UBR. I think its gonna happen. Danny
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Bow night last night started with Jimmy showing up at the door with a broken bow. Turns out it was a piece of the first bow and not the next one, he thought it would be funny. After I put him in a head lock I felt better.
He shot his bow all last week, well over 100 shots by his estimation. It didn't take any pronounced set and still haas an inch of reflex. We weighed it and it looks like 62lb@28", stout bow.
He rounded the tips some for looks, then sanded the belly a bit. It was close to smooth already, the cabinet scraper leaves a nice finish. Last we glued on some prairie rattler skins. This was an odorous task. I had already put the skins in water for his first bow, then when it blew I thought I'd re-tan them with baby oil. Seems a baggie of baby oil doesn't stop skins from rotting, even in the frig. The first inkling of this was when I got out a soda (its the beer/soda frig thank goodness) and the can stunk. I quickly determined the source of the smell as the skiins, and layed them out on the porch for a few days. The skins were still smelly but I thik that stopped the rot. In any case, we gllued them on and I think the smell will go away or at least be covered by the finish. That or the deer will think Jimmy died and not be afraid.
No pics this week, smellivision would tell an interesting story though.
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Jimmy's a funny guy >:D I have never tried tanned skins, what did you use for glue?
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The skins were originally glycerin tanned. As you know, glycerin is water-soluble so by soaking in several changes of water you can effectively remove it. The advantage of the tanned skins is that they are supple and won't crack like the air-dried ones can. I tried to find glycerin at the Walgreens but couldn't find a product with it so I settled on baby oil with is a mineral oil, thinking it'd do about the same. maybe if I'd dried the skins and pasted the oil on, it would've not rotted.
We glued the skins on with an Elmers carpenters glue, diluted with water. I've used that and hide glue and both seem to work fine.
I lied about the head lock, Jimmy is strong as a bull so I wouldn't pick a fight with him by accident. But I did headlock him in my mind.
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Ya that Jimmy is a funny guy alright. BTW regarding the weight of the bow. Doesn't look like he is drawing 28 in anyway assuming the arrow is not oversized like mine are. :) Jawge
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He might not be Jawge, although I might also have snapped the photo a little before he reached full draw. And the arrows are mine, 29" length. I warned him not to over draw them. It'd be quite alright with me if he drew just a little less than 28", less stress on the bow.
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Thanks Lennie, I have always steared clear of tanned skins, until NOW. I was thinkin, "dang Lennie does have nads of steel, puttin Jimmy in a headlock" :o ;D