Primitive Archer

Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: arachnid on March 05, 2015, 04:31:40 pm

Title: A Wierd Thing...
Post by: arachnid on March 05, 2015, 04:31:40 pm
Hi Guys.

So I finished the tri lam I`ve been working on (I`ll post it once I`ll get some proper pictures).
Tillered it to 40#@26". Or at least that what the scale showed on when the bow was on the tiller tree.
Once I drew the bow it felt lighter then 40#. So I held the scale in my right hand and the bow in my left hand, hooked it to the string and
drew the bow with the scale to full draw- and the scale showed 30#!!!

I measured my draw lenght again and it`s 26", not less... SOOOOOO.... what the hell is going on?
Title: Re: A Wierd Thing...
Post by: Josh B on March 05, 2015, 05:18:46 pm
I would guess that the 26" on your tillering tree is measured from the saddle that holds your bow and your draw length was measured from the back of the bow.  The thickness of the handle area would be the difference between one draw and the other.  Josh
Title: Re: A Wierd Thing...
Post by: willie on March 05, 2015, 05:22:21 pm
Dor

Lately, I have not been to happy with my measuring set-up. I bought a hanging scale a few year back like this.....

http://www.3riversarchery.com/Rubbermaid+Pelouze+Hanging+Bow+Scale_i401000_baseitem.html

which seems to work ok for its intended use, but I have had less than adequate consistency when using it with a beyond a pulley on the tiller tree. It seems to make a big difference whether you take the reading by stopping on the way up or the way down. (most likey a better pulley would help some)

I have been wanting to see what other guys use, especially as I have been making more use of Badgers no set tillering method, and wish to be able to take more accurate and precise weight readings

willie
Title: Re: A Wierd Thing...
Post by: arachnid on March 05, 2015, 05:24:11 pm
The saddle is marked 3" so the full 26" draw does consider the thickness of the handle.
Title: Re: A Wierd Thing...
Post by: Josh B on March 05, 2015, 05:36:33 pm
It was just a guess.  Having ruled that out, I would suspect the scale as well.  Josh
Title: Re: A Wierd Thing...
Post by: osage outlaw on March 05, 2015, 05:43:40 pm
I made the mistake of not realizing how far the hook moved on my scale.  I had it on the wall with measurements marked.  I would pull it down to the 28" mark but actually the bow was only pulling 26" or so.  All of my bows were heavier than what I thought.  I have a dowel rod tied to my scale hook with measurements on it.  Now it moves with the scale so I am getting an accurate reading.  I know its the opposite of what you are seeing but thought it might help.
Title: Re: A Wierd Thing...
Post by: Badger on March 05, 2015, 06:08:47 pm
  Put it back on the tiller tree and measure again, if it still reads 40 you are not getting to full draw when pulling it.
Title: Re: A Wierd Thing...
Post by: arachnid on March 06, 2015, 01:00:20 am
  Put it back on the tiller tree and measure again, if it still reads 40 you are not getting to full draw when pulling it.

I did and I am pulling it to full draw. I even checked my draw length again just to be sure I don't have ha shorter draw then I thought. It's 26". I'll try to post so pictures later...
Title: Re: A Wierd Thing...
Post by: Del the cat on March 06, 2015, 04:33:57 am
I once screwed up big time by reading kilograms instead of pounds >:( :o :-[ ::)...
I got some white paint and painted out the KG scale after that.... damn French units (spits on floor)
Del
Title: Re: A Wierd Thing...
Post by: arachnid on March 06, 2015, 06:22:40 am
I once screwed up big time by reading kilograms instead of pounds >:( :o :-[ ::)...
I got some white paint and painted out the KG scale after that.... damn French units (spits on floor)
Del

 ;D
Title: Re: A Wierd Thing...
Post by: bobbykelley on March 06, 2015, 08:14:48 am
I once screwed up big time by reading kilograms instead of pounds >:( :o :-[ ::)...
I got some white paint and painted out the KG scale after that.... damn French units (spits on floor)
Del

Now that's funny.
Title: Re: A Wierd Thing...
Post by: son of massey on March 06, 2015, 08:19:32 am
This seems to simple to be your solution, but you said you attached the scale and drew to your full draw. Is that in reference to your hand reaching your anchor point, because if so the bowstring would be sitting a few inches forward of that-however tall your scale is. That would give a reduced weight. If you talk about full draw in the sense that the arrow was pulled back as far as your arrows would be at full draw-which is how you need to measure this-realize it can be hard (for me at least) to get the draw length quite right. Finally, at true full draw can you see the scale dial or do you have to let down some to read it?
Title: Re: A Wierd Thing...
Post by: crooketarrow on March 06, 2015, 11:43:46 am
  See if your bow did'nt pick up a little string follow.

  If so bad tillering or your wood was a little green to start with, Little green is likely whats happened.

Only 2 things that causes string follow, string follow the only cause for a bow to lose weight.

  Turn up the tips if it isn't to bad this might bring it back to your weight it not give it to a kid.

  Unless your full draw messurements are not the same as you really draw. I'd find this out before I go beening tips.
Title: Re: A Wierd Thing...
Post by: Springbuck on March 06, 2015, 06:13:36 pm
  Is there much friction between the scale and the bow? Like the pulling string attaches directly to the bow, but maybe goes through a pulley before getting tho the scale, so you are pulling the bow, and some resistance from the pulley?
Title: Re: A Wierd Thing...
Post by: arachnid on March 07, 2015, 03:45:51 pm
  See if your bow did'nt pick up a little string follow.

  If so bad tillering or your wood was a little green to start with, Little green is likely whats happened.

Only 2 things that causes string follow, string follow the only cause for a bow to lose weight.

  Turn up the tips if it isn't to bad this might bring it back to your weight it not give it to a kid.

  Unless your full draw messurements are not the same as you really draw. I'd find this out before I go beening tips.

Bow has no string fololw. In fact it hold a nice 1 1/2" of reflex.
It could be that I didn`t measure my draw length currectly. I just did as I read online- place a fist on the wall and measure the distance from the wall to my mouth.

If there`s a better way I`d like to know, my draw lenght could be shorter then I know.... :'(
Title: Re: A Wierd Thing...
Post by: bubbles on March 07, 2015, 03:59:24 pm
Best way i know is to draw an arrow on a bow youre really comfortable with to your anchor and have somebody mark where the arrow crosses the back of the bow.
If you have no friends to do this, take a big elastic and wrap in around the arrow,  put the elastic 28" to start.  Draw and hit anchor, if the elastic bumps the back of the bow before you hit anchor, move it further, if the elastic doesnt, move it in and repeat. Then, when the elastic is hitting the back of the bow right when you hit anchor, youve got your draw length. Thats the method I use. I found my draw was considerably shorter that i thought.  26" for a thick handle and 25" for a bendy.
Title: Re: A Wierd Thing...
Post by: George Tsoukalas on March 07, 2015, 04:20:49 pm
I tillered my first bow to 28". Come to find out my draw with a selfbow is 26". Jawge
Title: Re: A Wierd Thing...
Post by: dbb on March 07, 2015, 08:42:31 pm
I use a cedarshaft with a nock mounted and marked every inch from 25 to 32 with black and red marker, red rings for even and black for odd inches with a green ring at 28".
Really easy to see in a mirror at a slight angle.
Title: Re: A Wierd Thing...
Post by: DC on March 07, 2015, 08:50:14 pm
Best way i know is to draw an arrow on a bow youre really comfortable with to your anchor and have somebody mark where the arrow crosses the back of the bow.
If you have no friends to do this, take a big elastic and wrap in around the arrow,  put the elastic 28" to start.  Draw and hit anchor, if the elastic bumps the back of the bow before you hit anchor, move it further, if the elastic doesnt, move it in and repeat. Then, when the elastic is hitting the back of the bow right when you hit anchor, youve got your draw length. Thats the method I use. I found my draw was considerably shorter that i thought.  26" for a thick handle and 25" for a bendy.
+1   I do this but I use an "O" ring instead of an elastic.
Title: Re: A Wierd Thing...
Post by: PatM on March 07, 2015, 09:00:43 pm
Why would it being a selfbow make a difference to draw length?
Title: Re: A Wierd Thing...
Post by: George Tsoukalas on March 07, 2015, 10:59:46 pm
It was a recurve with a pistol grip, Pat, and I always measured to the back of the handle.
Jawge
Title: Re: A Wierd Thing...
Post by: arachnid on March 08, 2015, 02:05:55 pm
Well I measured again using the way bubbles suggested and it turns out I have a shorter draw then I thought! It's only 24.5"!!! I HAVE SHORT HANDS... :'(

At least that explain my bow's "weight loss".

Thanks for the help guys...

P.S
Is it so "bad" to have a short draw? Less stored energy?
Title: Re: A Wierd Thing...
Post by: DC on March 08, 2015, 04:19:30 pm
http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,50869.0.html
Maybe you can pick up a little :D :D
Title: Re: A Wierd Thing...
Post by: arachnid on March 08, 2015, 05:08:25 pm
http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,50869.0.html
Maybe you can pick up a little :D :D

Thanks a lot DC! I have been wondering about back tension and how do you do it.... ;D