Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: tomthumb on February 27, 2015, 06:16:58 am
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Hello folks,
My first Primitive Archer post!
Thought I might post some pictures of a yew bow I have been working on. I'd picked one of the worse pieces to work on first, and then move on to the nicer pieces after some practice. I may have attempted that the wrong way around... well, we will soon find out!
Here the beginning. Enjoy.
(http://i.imgur.com/jQHIcTHl.jpg?1) (http://i.imgur.com/bs6xy8cl.jpg?1)
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Good luck!
Maybe use a normal piece - the result could be much better...
Beginning with a worse stave is tricky
Greetz
Cord
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The yew logs above are what we picked out of the forest behind my house in North Yorkshire. They have been drying for a while and are down to around 17% moisture; Please remember we are in Yorkshire here... We have quite a lot of atmospheric moisture..
We used a ripsaw to score the logs along the surface, then used wedges to split them along the scores. This worked out quite well as with so many knots, juts by splitting I was in danger of making splinters.
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They all look great ;D, you should see come of the stuff I have to work with.
Looks like lovely thin sapwood.
My top tip Don't take the bark off!
It will protect the sapwood stop it drying too quick and it will pop off on it's own when you start to tiller.
(Mind the "crack" as it pops off will scare the crap out of you >:D
With a wood that's new to me I usually go with the bad half first to get used to it.
Del
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Thanks Del! I've been following your bow builds for years!
Yep, made a big mistake taking the bark of one of the nicer pieces.. DOH!!
Well, these should help cut them down to size anyway!!
(http://i.imgur.com/YxbEHenl.jpg?1)
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Welcome and good luck, keep us posted. Looks like a nice Challenge and should make a beautiful bow if you pull it off. :)
Pappy
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So... From log to stave. I got a bit band-saw happy. But.. Its easier to work down to the dimensions you want from a square... right?!
You will notice that the core doesn't run down the centre of the stave. I don't know if this is going to be much of an issue. Its all very well and good working from "square" dimensions, but I think this may result in something that I've seen people call "character".. As you can see from the bottom photo, the back is quite undulating and has some seriously ropey looking features.
My mate has taken the opposing stave from the same tree, so we will be able to see how we both get on. A bit of friendly competition!
And, thanks for the welcome folks.
(http://i.imgur.com/iJAgLWJl.jpg?1) (http://i.imgur.com/51B2MAxl.jpg?1)
(http://i.imgur.com/pzKtLHCl.jpg) (http://i.imgur.com/EH7mQwel.jpg)
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Those staves look great to me too. Also it's great to find Yew in a wood rather than churchyard or property! :)
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Hi Sieddy. Yeah, it is! The woods actually are part of an old castle estate, and the yew was from a hidden grove of about 12 or so trees. I've only taken 1 as I didn't want to be too greedy. Something tells me though, that s what they were planted for (unless its wild, but I don't think so).
This may be a good time to mention that the stave is only 5'4", quite a lot shorter than me. I guess if a bow that short is going to have to bend to a 28" draw (if thats possible!), then the dimensions are going to be quite different from traditional longbow section dimensions. Flatter and wider??..
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Grain waving from side to side isn't a prob' with Yew. :)
It's always the same... the one area where you want it a bit thick (centre of the stave)... you find a big dip and the heartwood looking a tad thin >:(
I think you've prob got plenty of thickness there tho'..
Number of times I've run it through the bandsaw thinking this looks fine... turn it over and woooo that's cutting it a bit close for comfort.
Roughing out square is a good start. you can get the belly running true to the back late just by running a pencil along with one finger following the back (I find I don't do so much damage with a pencil as a bandsaw ::) ;) )
Del
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Welcome to PA, Mr Tom. Enjoy.
Jawge
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Welcome, and congrats! You've managed to succeed in the hardest part of making yew bows - finding yew!
Once you have it, it's a walk in the park, as yew just wants to be a bow - even if you virtually ruin the thing in the process it'll still spit out an arrow for you ;)
Best of luck with the build - I wouldn't personally worry too much about the cross section. You can keep it Victorian style and go for a D section and narrow, or go medieval and make it rectangular or galleon shaped and it won't make a vast amount of difference to what draw length you can get from it - good tillering and making the handle work will help you out more there.
64" is short for a traditional longbow and the thing will be working damn hard by the time it gets down to 28" so be super patient and treat the knots with care as if it goes it'll go at the knots. Looks like a nice load of wood there though, so you should be fine :)
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Thats it Del! The problem is that the grain and border between sap and heart changes depending which side of the bow you are looking at! How this going to look when its been cut to the right thickness in D-section, I have no idea! It does take a bit of a dip in the middle as you can see, but its much more pronounced at the sides as the surface ripples, so hopefully I should have plenty of wood left.
Thanks for the tips! I used then finger/ pencil technique for the thickness, but again this was complicated by the difference between the two sides. But, I've given it my best shot!
WillS; I think youre right! It's making that "springing-the-ruler-on-the-edge-of-the-desk" noise. Its calling to me! haha
I think in regards to the section, Im' just going to keep going till it bends and see what comes out naturally. I'm aiming for around 40# I reckon. But as you said, @28" its going to be working very hard and I'm a little concerned about some of those knots that run right through it..
(http://i.imgur.com/ryQgwrUl.jpg)
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Oooh I missed the 64".
Like Will said that will be ok if the whole bow is working. (I'm getting really worried... that's twice I've agreed with him in a week :o ;))
I'd say avoid going too narrow and don't narrow the tips until it's getting to a reasonable draw. Tip width is you friend for correcting string line and preventing sideways bend.
I've just had a pig of a bow... I must have done at least 6 lateral heat corrections before I could get her to full draw. Now it's there hopefully it will become stable.
Del
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Nice staves! yes wider if shorter.....A good model to follow with that short of stave would be the yew bow of Pinecone's that just won the BOM
http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,49699.0.html (http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,49699.0.html)
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So...
I've put a centre line down the back and belly and the stave has now picked up some new curves!
The *wobbles*, the ropey features in the stave are having quite a lot of influence over the shape of the bow, as you might be able to see from the sides. I could cut right through them, but the draw knife seems to be picking them up naturally...
(http://i.imgur.com/EmyWNrkl.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/oQrn1eml.jpg?1)
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Yup, go with the flow :laugh:
Beware if the drawknife starts taking you where you don't want to go or digging in, it's time to grab the rasp.
Lookin' good.
Del
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The stave on the left is mine.. The stave on the right is my friends made from the sister piece of yew. As you can see, he's a fair bit further on than me.
This picture probably shows best just how wobbly the sap wood really is; it was worse hidden underneath the bark.
I've left mine fairly wide at the tips and have left some extra depth through the handle. I'm sure as sure some of you will notice the dangerous looking depth of my friends stave where the back undulates through the ropey part; Mine has similar features. I'll pass on your reservations ;)
Time maybe to start a bit'o'bending..
(http://i.imgur.com/pzYYsUXl.jpg?1)
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OUCH! :o
... Yes ! Don't copy your friend, he has some horrendous thin spots, he hasn't got the belly following the curves of the back.
Run the stave between finger and thumb you should feel a V gentle taper with no sudden thick or thin spots.
Del
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Hi
It seem that your friend is good in building predetermined breaking points. ;D
You must follow the shape of the back, so if the back is concave or convex the belly must be the contrary and not flat.
Kind regards
Andi
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Now then, looking good so far on yours but your friends is toast - lots of weak spots....finger calipers and lots of use off!
Where are you? I live just near Darlington and could help you out with getting the first one shooting.
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Mike,
"Finger Calipers"
I like that, I may have to borrow it :laugh:
At least they don't get lost on the junk on the work bench :laugh:
Del
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Haha He knows only too well he's made a big mistake..
So I have been using my "finger callipers" to make sure I don't do the same. Again, the only complication with this is that the back isn't flat, so when doing this, on the belly, the resulting lines can be quite far apart on opposing sides. This is mostly through the ropey parts. Presumably this is going to make the bow a little snakey... Does that make sense? I'm not sure if it does :/
Thats very kind Mike. I live off towards Helmsely on the other side of the North York Moors. Not a million miles away!
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It's all about compromise...
This post from my blog where I have exactly the same problem may help..
http://bowyersdiary.blogspot.co.uk/2013/11/dealing-with-dip.html (http://bowyersdiary.blogspot.co.uk/2013/11/dealing-with-dip.html)
Del
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Thanks Del. That is exactly the same issue.
So, here come the sighs... I've violated the grain on the back of the bow, where this sap takes tips and twists... :(
I know, I know, "dont take the bark off till late".. Unfortunately I'd had already done this. But! the belly is now largely following the back. I guess places where this is not the case will show themselves when it goes on the tiller.
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Following a ring on the back is an aim rather than a commandment! You can see sometimes you jus thave to remove sapwood else you'll end up with no heart wood... like I said, all about compromise.
I have one bow that had a big dip where the sap suddenly went thick and I had to go down through 8 rings :o
It was either that or have no heartwood... the bow has only lasted 40 years so maybe the jury is still out ;)
Del
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Hi
Has anyone ever had to build a yew bow with only 2-3 sapwood rings?
I think my actual stave will be a problem like that.
Kind regards
Andi
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Hi Andi,
Most of the yew I have come across in the UK has too thicker sap wood as opposed to too thin.
In principle, it shouldn't be too much of an issue, however I can imagine it totally depends on the thickness of each sapwood ring and how you you make the bow.
I was just saying how Ive managed to violate the sap wood on mine... I wouldn't do that with yours!
The other option would be to back the bow with something. Its not something I have very much experience with, but I can imagine that helping if your sap looks a little thin/weak.
Lets see what the experts say!
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EURGHHH!... I'm very tempted to not put the tillering pictures up... Its pretty ugly!
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Hi
Has anyone ever had to build a yew bow with only 2-3 sapwood rings?
I think my actual stave will be a problem like that.
Kind regards
Andi
I did have one stave that have very thin sapwood about 1/8" thick it became a warbow which eventually broke after about a year of good use.
Del
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My current every-day bow is a 105# English yew self bow. The back was a nightmare, as some of the bark was showing rot, and while there were no dips and lumps (which is unusual!) the stave was from a very odd trunk, and the sapwood rolled around the bow a bit, rising and falling with little warning. As a result, while reducing the sapwood to a sensible thickness, I ended up ploughing through 6 rings in one beautiful, wonderful movement with the draw knife... and exposing actual heartwood through the back.
The area is about 8" long and the whole bow is basically an advert for "how not to make a bow." As I said, it's my every-day bow now, and it's been shooting fine for a long time at a fairly high poundage. I wouldn't worry a hoot about violating rings with yew. It's going to let you make a hundred mistakes and not give up on you. If the tiller is good you'll be absolutely fine.
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This is a very amusing topic to follow. Thanks for that! :) Lots of pics and good tips from the seasoned yew bowyers.
If I may add a piece of advice as well: please don't continue tillering at this point. I'm pretty sure that the wood is not completely dry yet. Given the big chunk of wood you started with a week ago, you can rest assured that the center of that stave wasn't at equilibrium moisture content (EMC). Even in the humid UK you have to wait for the wood to reach EMC before you can start tillering. It's OK to do some floor tillering for now, but please leave the stave in a dry place in the house for at least two weeks. You can monitor water loss (weight loss) with an accurate kitchen scale. As soon as the stave hasn't lost weight for at least a few days in a row, you know it has reached EMC.
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Well I'm glad its amusing Mr Darksoul ;) I very much appreciate all of your input.
I would have hoped that the Yew is well-seasoned by now, but I can understand your concern. I felled the tree about 2 years ago, in which time it has been split (and later re-split) and put up on the shelf in the workshop. The workshop (unheated... Brrrrrr) must have a ambient moisture level of 17%, because any piece of wood you leave in there long enough gets to 17% then stops. I have been checking the moisture % as I work the stave down, and so far it I have seen it fluctuate between 17-19% depending on where you place the conductors on the wood. I think that taking some time though to stop and think and watch the *wood* dry is always a good idea.
WillS; Wow, sounds like that was an interesting project. And I'm glad to hear it is still with you! That makes me feel better about cutting the grain. I'm sure it may also be of some reassurance to AndiE who was mentioning he only had 2-3rings of sapwood on his yew stave! On my stave. where it goes through the rings though, isn't confined to one section though, but rather is almost along the full length as the stave dips and twists in the ropey bits.
Cheers
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Yes it's a very good idea to be weighing it now and recording weight loss. Write the info on the stave, weight/date.
Once it's stable I would be happy to come over. I go running in the N.York moors quite a bit and I go to Stonebow field archery club nr. Thirsk so your not far from some of my normal haunts.
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Take it somewhere warm :)
Once i've roughed a bow out i'll take it inside and leave it for a few weeks then even a few days in the hotbox to get it down to around 10% m.c.
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Hi Mike!
Ah ha!! Small world! I've just started going to Stonebow over the last couple of weeks. Its been great fun, cant wait until the weathers a bit warmer! Will you be at the open shoot on the 22nd??..
I've been a bit busy over the last week or so with work, but here's some updates..
Well what do you know.... Here is my friends stave.. Just as you predicted.
(http://i.imgur.com/NS75DOpl.jpg) (http://i.imgur.com/jspeiH0l.jpg) (http://i.imgur.com/zefcfIQl.jpg)
These pictures give a better idea of the problems I'm facing with mine and what I was trying to explain before about the ropey features and changing depth on either side.
Now back to mine....
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Hmm... Scary business tillering!! I want to get back all the way to 28", but that just seems a million miles away at the moment.
(http://i.imgur.com/7BiDYrel.jpg) (http://i.imgur.com/pa2bM6Zl.jpg)
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Difficult to say at that angle, but left limb seems stronger than right.
Yes tillering can be scary >:D
Del
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Looks like a hinge starting a third of the way back from the right tip. +1 what del said.
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Good build along post Tom. Looks like your off to a good start on that yew and from what I've read here so far it also appears you have a good understanding of working wood. I think your on your way to getting a nice bow out of that one. Keep the updates coming.
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Bring that left limb round to match the right, and get it off the long string and you'll be well on your way. You're beyond brace height at this stage, so the long string isn't required any more. Don't brace it until that left limb is working like the right, however.
Looking good so far though, just keep at it. And get the damn thing up on the wall, you'll never get a good idea of the full tiller shape with it flat like that ;)
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Hi Folks!
So I'm working on bringing that left limb down to meet the right. Ajooter; You are right, there is definitely a bit of a hinge on the right limb. I will be careful with that one. Its where it takes some undulation and where the belly doesnt exactly match the back... I know I know... finger callipers, thanks Del ;)
And WillS; Your totally right as well. Having to step on top of the work bench and birds-eye the tiller doesn't work very well. And the photos are always wonky! Wall space is a bit of a luxury in this workshop, but I will try to find somewhere we all can have a better view!
Mike: we are down to 9-11% moisture..
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ohh.. and just a little teaser of things to come! (or the next stave I started out of frustration with the current project!) haha
(http://i.imgur.com/GvPtPahl.jpg)
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You weren't listening to Mike.
Mike: we are down to 9-11% moisture..
Yes it's a very good idea to be weighing it now and recording weight loss. Write the info on the stave, weight/date.
Once it's stable I would be happy to come over.
(...)
Take it somewhere warm :)
Once i've roughed a bow out i'll take it inside and leave it for a few weeks then even a few days in the hotbox to get it down to around 10% m.c.
How did you determine 9-11% moisture? Please throw away that wood moisture meter. Do not rely on it. Accurate weighing of the wood is all that you need.
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The bigger problem with your tillering setup is that you're leaving the bow drawn for ages, especially if you're getting up above it, looking at it, taking pics etc.
Ideally, you want to be drawing the bow at the same speed it will be shot at, and not leaving it there at all. Just pull, observe, release. Every second it sits there at full draw (or any length draw) it's losing power quickly, and gaining set.
Pics are great for looking at the tiller afterwards, or posting on here, but don't sacrifice a bow just to get a good shot!
All that said, finding somewhere to tiller is tricky, and we have to make do with what we get.
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The bigger problem with your tillering setup is that you're leaving the bow drawn for ages, especially if you're getting up above it, looking at it, taking pics etc.
Ideally, you want to be drawing the bow at the same speed it will be shot at, and not leaving it there at all. Just pull, observe, release. Every second it sits there at full draw (or any length draw) it's losing power quickly, and gaining set.
Pics are great for looking at the tiller afterwards, or posting on here, but don't sacrifice a bow just to get a good shot!
All that said, finding somewhere to tiller is tricky, and we have to make do with what we get.
+1, but don't release it, relax it!!! :P