Primitive Archer

Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: El Destructo on January 26, 2008, 09:31:38 pm

Title: Sycamore Bow Staves (finished bow full draw on page 3 toward bottom)
Post by: El Destructo on January 26, 2008, 09:31:38 pm
I am in the Process of making a Rawhide Backed Sycamore Bow...in the West Coast Paddle Bow Design.....I am wondering if any of You has any experience with this Wood....I have made a few D-Bow's over the Years from it....it seems to have a lot of zip for a Wood of such weight....I would appreciate any advice on it I can....will add pictures as it progresses
Title: Re: Sycamore Bow Staves
Post by: mullet on January 26, 2008, 10:20:22 pm
 I haven't tried it. But I would like to cut down two trees in my neighbors yard. I'm the recipient of all his leaves. But seriously, I've heard pro's and con about using it. Seems it works real well for wide,2" bows. I'll be looking forward to seeing it .
Title: Re: Sycamore Bow Staves
Post by: cowboy on January 26, 2008, 11:04:18 pm
I hear ya Eddie - remember that discussion between you and bob :). Them leaves are big and if they shed like these oaks I have all over the yard it's a pain in the A$$. Hopefully bob will chime in - he's the only one I've heard on here that's experienced sycamore..
Title: Re: Sycamore Bow Staves
Post by: mullet on January 26, 2008, 11:08:01 pm
 :D :D, Paul, forgot about that. My neighbors gone to N.C. this weekend. I'll probally take my leaf blower and shoot them back to his yard ;D
Title: Re: Sycamore Bow Staves
Post by: cowboy on January 26, 2008, 11:13:52 pm
Take your chainsaw and make some bows, hahaha ;D.
Title: Re: Sycamore Bow Staves
Post by: Coo-wah-chobee on January 27, 2008, 01:58:08 am
 " Yankee " ifn its the American sycamore it will make great bows. There is a oriental planetree( Common name fer these trees) it aint as good (common ornamental tree on streets and in yards ). Planatus occidentalus ( american sycamore ) me thinks is the one ya want.  I have made a few ( like 8 er so ) and taken game with em' and I have never been disapointed. As ya know its tough as hell, heavy and coarse. Now ifn Eddie and I can "frigure " out how ta get his neighbors tree down without him noticin' ! ;D Ifn its a short paddle bow (how short -36 -40 " ?) 2 1/2 " er 2 3/4 " wide sounds good ta me at its widest point. Keep posted on this. Good luck........bob
Title: Re: Sycamore Bow Staves
Post by: El Destructo on January 27, 2008, 04:22:15 am
" Yankee " ifn its the American sycamore it will make great bows. I have made a few ( like 8 er so ) and taken game with em' and I have never been disapointed. As ya know its tough as hell, heavy and coarse.  Ifn its a short paddle bow (how short -36 -40 " ?) 2 1/2 " er 2 3/4 " wide sounds good ta me at its widest point. Keep posted on this. Good luck........bob

It's going to be 66" ntn....2 1/4" wide with an 1 1/4" wide Handle......Pin Nocks....with Whitetail Rawhide that I made last year....I am still tossing around whether to paint it in the Traditional West Coasty ways....or back it with Snake Skin too
Title: Re: Sycamore Bow Staves
Post by: El Destructo on January 27, 2008, 01:00:41 pm
well here are a few pictures of it so far.....I only have it tillered to 24 inches on a short string now....looks to me like the Right Limbs a bit too stiff still....so I have some Tiller issues as of yet....The Rawhide turned out good.....I love my Pin Nocks....cant seem to make a normal nock any more...I like the West Coast and Eastern Woodlands Style nocks the Best...they have Character....Hit me up Guys ....I need all the Help I can get

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Sycamore Bow Staves
Post by: El Destructo on January 27, 2008, 01:03:21 pm
One more

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Sycamore Bow Staves
Post by: Hillbilly on January 27, 2008, 01:45:45 pm
Lookin' good. Like you said, the right limb still looks a little flat a midlimb, but overall, it's coming along great.Your bow is a bit long to classify as a West Coast paddle bow, but it's almost a dead ringer for the Sudbury bow that was taken from a Wampanoag  warrior killed in Massachucetts in 1660. Looks like the sycamore is holding up great without much set. I've seen quartersawn sycamore lumber, and it has a really nice looking grain.
Title: Re: Sycamore Bow Staves
Post by: El Destructo on January 27, 2008, 02:04:54 pm
this is Quarter Sawn too....it was never Kiln Dried though...I bought  some still wet two years ago and have had it in the Garage drying since then...it was a full 2"x12' board ...rough cut on one side planed on the other...I like the feel of it so far has a lot of resilience...I like to make my Paddle Bows a bit longer then the Authentic ones....so I can get 28-30 inch Draw Length from them safely....but they are still normally 2 1/2" wide at least ....this one ended up narrower though!!! And you are right it does really resemble the Sudbury Bow doesn't it!!
Title: Re: Sycamore Bow Staves
Post by: Woodland Roamer on January 27, 2008, 02:22:18 pm
That's coming along nice, really has nice graceful lines to it.

Alan
Title: Re: Sycamore Bow Staves
Post by: Pat B on January 27, 2008, 02:47:06 pm
Yankee, Your bow is coming along nicely. I agree with everyone else about how well you have done on this one. If it were me, I'd shoot the bow a few hundred times before I backed it with snake skin or a painted design, just in case. ;D The rawhide backing should help hold it together but except for Bob, I've not hears of a anyone making a sycamore bow.    Pat
Title: Re: Sycamore Bow Staves
Post by: El Destructo on January 27, 2008, 02:54:24 pm
Thanks Pat....I have made a few D-Bows from Scamore....but never a wide Limbed Bow like this....I am going to take my sweet time and make sure that I nail the Tiller ....so it wont Self-Destruct like the one that Marc posted!!! I have had that happen twice...once in the House and the other in the Garage....and neither one was pretty either..
Title: Re: Sycamore Bow Staves
Post by: El Destructo on January 27, 2008, 03:50:49 pm
That's coming along nice, really has nice graceful lines to it.

Alan

Thanks Alan...I appreciate the Compliments too....and I think I finally nailed the Tiller on this one.....what do you Guys think???

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Sycamore Bow Staves
Post by: Coo-wah-chobee on January 27, 2008, 04:08:29 pm
                  Lookin good Yankee as a matter of fact lookin' very good. Some feedback fer yer consideration. Maybe take a few and I mean a few more swipes with a very sharp scraper on the right limb from outside the fade to about 10 " from the tip. Like Hillbilly said its a "longie " fer a west coast paddle bow but what the "hay ! " Like Pat said maybe shoot 100 arrras through it before ya finish it. The tiller might change a bit and ya can work it out. When finished I would heat treat the belly not to hot er long but just some. Let it rehydrate  ifn ya do that fer 2 er 3 days. Then yer finish. Very nice work Yankee I likes it a lot ! ;) ;D.....bob
Title: Re: Sycamore Bow Staves
Post by: El Destructo on January 27, 2008, 04:26:55 pm
Thanks Bob....Why Heat Treat the Belly..... Is Sycamore bad in Compression...or will this just help the Bow out Structurally??

I went out and shot it in....I put 200 arrows through it....shot it at 28 inch Draw....my Length....Unstrung it....it had about 1/2" of Follow....which disappeared in less than 20 minutes....so I think I have a Keeper here.....I just got done gluing the Snake Skins down....decided against the 8 hours of Painting....Skins are faster!!!

What do you think of the Skin????

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Sycamore Bow Staves
Post by: Coo-wah-chobee on January 27, 2008, 07:28:58 pm
   Yes Yankee, heat treating the belly would structurally help out the bow however, since ya put the skins on I would forget that. By the way ths skins look very nice. Nice bow,. nice craftsmanship,  whats draw # @ 28 " ?...bob
Title: Re: Sycamore Bow Staves
Post by: El Destructo on January 27, 2008, 07:34:34 pm
Bob....I took your Advise ...even not knowing for sure why!!!! I did Heat the Belly with my Heat Gun.....I heated till you could not touch it anymore....let it cool....and Snaked Her out....oh before I Heat Treated it ....it was 45 pounds at 28.....after it was 48.....sound about right???? Will I get to keep this extra poundage....or will it go away when it draws in Moisture for the Snake Skin Backing??? I hope that Rawhiding and Snake Skinning isn't too much overkill!! :o
Title: Re: Sycamore Bow Staves
Post by: mullet on January 27, 2008, 09:22:54 pm
  You'll keep most of it if you seal it after heat treating it.
Title: Re: Sycamore Bow Staves
Post by: Coo-wah-chobee on January 27, 2008, 10:19:44 pm
 Like Eddie said Yankee ! Damm nice bow !...bob
Title: Re: Sycamore Bow Staves
Post by: El Destructo on January 27, 2008, 10:27:30 pm
Thanks Guys....it's been a while since I had the time to work on one....been working nearly 7 days a week for 9 months.....gets old fast too!!
Title: Re: Sycamore Bow Staves
Post by: cowboy on January 27, 2008, 10:42:16 pm
Beauty! That turned out real nice!!
Title: Re: Sycamore Bow Staves
Post by: Rich Saffold on January 27, 2008, 10:55:55 pm
Very nice Yankeemongiat. I made bows out of sycamore about 10 years ago when part of a big tree with a split trunks two houses  fell during a storm, and part of it ended up on our driveway.. I took the chainsaw out and cut myself some nice clean staves..

If this storm brings the rest down I will get some of it..

It's good to see your bow since sycamore isn't really known as a bow wood, and its mass can be borderline, but you did it right by keeping it wide and long enough..

Rich

Title: Re: Sycamore Bow Staves
Post by: El Destructo on January 27, 2008, 10:59:46 pm
Thanks Rich and Paul....I appreciate the compliments....and I really liked working with the Sycamore too....it works as easy as Hickory does....and looks like it too...
Title: Re: Sycamore Bow Staves
Post by: Badger on January 27, 2008, 11:58:58 pm
I think you just created a demand for sycamore, great looking bow and not much set, really held the profile well. I will be looking for some, I think it might work well as an elb. Steve
Title: Re: Sycamore Bow Staves
Post by: El Destructo on January 28, 2008, 12:06:51 am
Thanks again.....well there is plenty of it down South....I am sure that there are many people here on this site that could get their hands on some.... I cant beleive nobody has asked me what kind of Snake it is that I backed this with.....
Title: Re: Sycamore Bow Staves
Post by: DanaM on January 28, 2008, 06:44:33 am
yankee she's a beauty, when I was in NJ last summer I kept looking at all the big, pipe straight sycamore
wondering if they were any good for bows. Guess so eh, at least with the proper design. As you well know
being a fellow Yooper there aren't any up here along with most of the common bow woods.
One question you said you heat treated the back? bob suggested heating the belly. I believe its generally a bad thing to heat treat
the back of a bow.
Title: Re: Sycamore Bow Staves
Post by: Minuteman on January 28, 2008, 09:29:41 am

 Great bow! Hope it gives you years of faithful service.I would like to see a long thin bow made from Sycamore too.
Hey, what kinda snake is that skin from anyway? ;D
Title: Re: Sycamore Bow Staves
Post by: El Destructo on January 28, 2008, 09:32:06 am
Dana......My Bad!!! Meant Belly  :o  Sorry for the Confusion....and as for the Snake....It.s Python
Title: Re: Sycamore Bow Staves
Post by: mullet on January 28, 2008, 11:20:20 am
  Great looking bow. That Python works more like leather than snakeskin doesn't it?
Title: Re: Sycamore Bow Staves
Post by: bootboy on January 28, 2008, 06:19:55 pm
Hey fellas I dont have any access to large snakes in my area, wheres a good place to get skins from?
Title: Re: Sycamore Bow Staves
Post by: Coo-wah-chobee on January 28, 2008, 08:22:23 pm
....Mike Yancy at Pine Hollow Longbows.........bob
Title: Re: Sycamore Bow Staves
Post by: SimonUK on January 28, 2008, 08:35:21 pm
Guys, what's a paddle bow?  I can see the fades are more gentle, but are there any other defining features?

Really nice bow yankeemongiat, it has a great look.
Title: Re: Sycamore Bow Staves
Post by: El Destructo on January 28, 2008, 10:38:02 pm
Simon....this isn't a True Paddle Bow....it is a Longarmed Yankees Version of a Short Wide Limbed West Coast Indian Paddle Bow.....A true Paddle Bow is like 44 inches Long and 2 1/2 to 3 inches wide at the Fades....all graceful sweeping curves.... I made this one look darned near like a Wampanoag Bow..... more than a Paddle Bow....I will post Pictures of some of my other Paddle Bows....real Paddle Bow!!

As for the Snake Skins....I buy from Yancey when He has them....right now He is running Slim....try eBay also for rattlers.....

As for the Python....it was as thick as the Doe rawhide I applied first....so yes it really is like Rawhide more than a Skin....I would sure like to get me a set of Copperheads for a Bow.....or another set of Sturgeon Skin....hint ....hint....got rattlers to possibly trade too....
Title: Re: Sycamore Bow Staves
Post by: El Destructo on January 28, 2008, 10:42:07 pm
Here are a couple Paddlers

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Sycamore Bow Staves
Post by: El Destructo on January 28, 2008, 10:43:05 pm
well thats the wrong Picture!!!! Thats one Paddle and a Ojibwa Bow.....my Tribe.........
Title: Re: Sycamore Bow Staves
Post by: El Destructo on January 28, 2008, 10:44:46 pm
here are two Paddle Bows

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Sycamore Bow Staves
Post by: Pappy on January 29, 2008, 08:17:36 am
Beautiful bows,I guess the question was answered about Sycamore making a bow.
All I knew about it was I lost a couple of wedges in some I was cutting and trying to split for fire wood,So I knew it was tough.Nice job. :) I had to burn them out. ;D
   Pappy
Title: Re: Sycamore Bow Staves
Post by: SimonUK on January 29, 2008, 08:50:20 am
Thanks yankeemongiat, those are very beautiful bows. It must be easier to get a bend in the handle with that design too.
Title: Re: Sycamore Bow Staves
Post by: El Destructo on January 30, 2008, 01:25:52 am
Well I have the Bow unwrapped....Python Hide Trimmed....I sanded it down on the edges to blend the Skin and Rawhide in better....now it's ready for a good finish....will post Pictures of it once the Bow is sealed and the Tips are Sinew Wrapped
Title: Re: Sycamore Bow Staves
Post by: El Destructo on January 31, 2008, 02:06:28 am
Got two coats of Tru-Oil on it now....and have the Tips Sinew wrapped for the first 3 inches....mainly to keep the Snake and rawhide from lifting....also I like the way it looks to....may dye the Sinew Black to highlight the Skins before I am done...will post pictures tomorrow...
Title: Re: Sycamore Bow Staves
Post by: El Destructo on February 02, 2008, 12:28:13 am
Well ... I have 4 Coats of Tru-Oil on it now (not my favorite finish)....may out a couple More....I can still feel the Scales....but then I kinda like that too.......I wrapped the Tips for a couple inches with Sinew,,,,,Now I have to decide whether to put a few more coats on it...and make it like Glass...or buff it down to remove the Gloss all together........I usually just Grease them and be done with it....but with the Rawhide and Snake....I thought it needed a better Finish than that...then I can get started on the Grip....it looks Good to me ....tiller wise....and it really shoots nice...even though it came in under the 55 pounds I was hoping for....but I knocked the feathers off of two Arrows tonight with it....I can get 2 inch groups with it at 15 yards,,,,thats as far as I could see in the near dark  tonight after work

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Sycamore Bow Staves
Post by: DanaM on February 02, 2008, 10:08:49 am
Looks great to me yankee, of course I'm prejudiced as yer a fellow Yooper ;D
Title: Re: Sycamore Bow Staves
Post by: El Destructo on February 03, 2008, 12:38:00 am
What looks Great Dana....my perfect stance.....look at that Form.....or were you taking about the Bow!!!!!!!!...sure glad I am right handed and I cover my Face when I draw....I still am in Cognito (spelling) here!!! Well I broke down and coated it once more....I could still feel Scales.....so I will have to wait a day or two more before I put the Leather Grip on it.......I have been working 12 hour days for a week and a half....so time is limited for working on this to finish it.....but I am glad you like it....and I have learned something from it too....Sycamore makes a pretty zippy little Bow....and really has nice grain too
Title: Re: Sycamore Bow Staves
Post by: Justin Snyder on February 03, 2008, 12:49:44 am
The bow looks great. Thats a nasty habit to get into holding arrows with your finger.  Ive seen plenty of fingers sliced open by broadheads on guys that practiced that at home.   :P Justin
Title: Re: Sycamore Bow Staves
Post by: El Destructo on February 03, 2008, 12:55:17 am
Dont do it as a Habit.....but I was trying to keep the Bow totally Straight....so the Tiller showed good....and the Wife was soooo Slow with the Camera....the Arrow kept moving on me....so I cupped it with my Finger... My Bad!!
Title: Re: Sycamore Bow Staves
Post by: DanaM on February 03, 2008, 07:55:31 am
Yer like Wilson on Home Improvement eh ;)
Title: Re: Sycamore Bow Staves
Post by: El Destructo on February 03, 2008, 08:56:55 am
Dats me..........Mister Bashful  ::)
Title: Re: Sycamore Bow Staves
Post by: Hillbilly on February 03, 2008, 11:35:31 am
That's really looking good-turned out to be a nice bow.  8) As for the face, if you look at some of these fellers on here like Dana and Pat, you sure couldn't be any uglier than they are. Luckily they've got a good lookin' handsome guy like me on here to keep the standards up somewhat.
Title: Re: Sycamore Bow Staves
Post by: DanaM on February 03, 2008, 11:49:05 am
Thanks fer the compliment Steve ;D I work hard on my appearance ;)
Title: Re: Sycamore Bow Staves (finished bow full draw on page 3 toward bottom)
Post by: Justin Snyder on February 03, 2008, 01:59:50 pm
yankee, I edited the title a little, I hope you don't mind. Justin
Title: Re: Sycamore Bow Staves (finished bow full draw on page 3 toward bottom)
Post by: Pat B on February 03, 2008, 02:08:29 pm
Very nice bow. I'll have to try sycamore.    If you don't like the shine of Tru-Oil, after it is cured, just give it a quick spray of satin poly and it will cut the shine. I have rubbed Tru-Oil finish down with fine sandpaper or 0000 steel wool but it will re-shine as it rubs against your cloths.     Pat
Title: Re: Sycamore Bow Staves (finished bow full draw on page 3 toward bottom)
Post by: medicinewheel on February 03, 2008, 02:29:05 pm

yes indeed: that's a very nice bow!

frank
Title: Re: Sycamore Bow Staves (finished bow full draw on page 3 toward bottom)
Post by: Coo-wah-chobee on February 03, 2008, 03:19:30 pm
Hillbilly yer modesty would not bear close examination !..... ;D....bob
Title: Re: Sycamore Bow Staves (finished bow full draw on page 3 toward bottom)
Post by: El Destructo on February 03, 2008, 10:18:27 pm
Yankee, I edited the title a little, I hope you don't mind. Justin

No problema Justin....I guess it keeps you from having to read all the way through...gets to the Nitty Gritty right off

Thanks Frank ....I appreciate the Compliments...but I like shooting the Buggers even better!!

Pat....I am still going to hit it with the OOOO Wool when I am done....and I really think that you need to try Sycamore....I have never built a Bow from it that was over 60 pounds though....so I cant tell you what it would be like...but it makes nice D Bows...and now I know it makes nice Paddle/ Sudbury Bow too

Title: Re: Sycamore Bow Staves (finished bow full draw on page 3 toward bottom)
Post by: Hillbilly on February 03, 2008, 10:44:23 pm
Quote
Hillbilly yer modesty would not bear close examination !..... ....bob

Bob, I know you're just jealous. Everybody can't be man-purty.  ;D
Title: Re: Sycamore Bow Staves (finished bow full draw on page 3 toward bottom)
Post by: Coo-wah-chobee on February 03, 2008, 10:56:42 pm
 :'( ;D..bob
Title: Re: Sycamore Bow Staves (finished bow full draw on page 3 toward bottom)
Post by: El Destructo on February 06, 2008, 12:47:20 am
Well I got 10 coats of Tru Oil on it now...and made a Grip from a Buckskin Hide I tanned last year...with Glass Beads and Feathers from a Sacred Raptor!! The Bow is a Great Shooter with lots of Zip....I really am happy with the way it turned out....I thank you for all of the Comment and compliments on this Build.....it don't compare with the Bows that are being picked for BOM....but I am going to have a blast with it none the less.... :o

I am already gearing up for my next Bow....it is going to be a 45-50 inch Hupa Style Bow....made of Birdseye Maple from Michigan...Rawhide Backed and painted with natural Pigments....I think the Stave is dry enough by now....I cut it in August of last Year

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Sycamore Bow Staves (finished bow full draw on page 3 toward bottom)
Post by: OldBow on February 06, 2008, 01:25:59 am
Thanks for the heads up about the Full Draw on p. 3. Got your neat bow all bookmarked for Feb Self Bow of the Month!!
Title: Re: Sycamore Bow Staves (finished bow full draw on page 3 toward bottom)
Post by: Dingleberry on February 06, 2008, 01:23:49 pm
That bow has my vote.  Incredible job Yankeemongiat!  Recently I read in the Journal of Cherokee Studies, that Sycamore (khu iyuhsti) was a common wood used for bows.  I definitely want to give it a try after seeing your success. :)
Title: Re: Sycamore Bow Staves (finished bow full draw on page 3 toward bottom)
Post by: El Destructo on February 06, 2008, 08:59:44 pm
Thanks for the heads up about the Full Draw on p. 3. Got your neat bow all bookmarked for Feb Self Bow of the Month!!

I don't know about Neat....but It turned out pretty nice....my first go around with Sycamore on a wide limbed Bow...and the first time to use Python...which I hope to get more of....really tough stuff for sure.....Thanks OldBow....I am proud to be picked.

Dingleberry......I really enjoyed working with Sycamore...it is a really nice wood to work....I am on the Hunt for more now myself...glad you like it...and good luck on your next Bow..