Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => HowTo's and Build-a-longs => Topic started by: adb on January 26, 2008, 06:58:08 pm
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Hi, Everyone
Well... here we go. As requested, a Holmegaard build along. I have been commissioned to build a Holmegaard bow. 66", hickory backed osage, pin nocks, 52 - 57# @ 27". This will be a backed board bow. Not exactly primitive. I will also be using power tools, namely a bandsaw. Final tillering, of course, will be done by hand.
I am by no means an expert. I certainly don't profess same. This is the way I do it. I'm sure some will disagree, but I've been very pleased with how these bows have turned out.
For today, I've done the glue-up. Pictures to follow.
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First pic is of my gluing form. 3 pieces of 3/4" plywood glued together, which makes it 2 1/4" wide. 78" long. 2 1/2" thick. The top surface has been run over a joiner to make it dead flat. Then, I tape the surface with clear packing tape, so the glue won't stick to it. The middle section has been left thicker, so I can place it in the vice. I've drilled a large hole through to allow a clamp at mid section.
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As mentioned, this will be a hickory backed osage bow. I'm using 1/8" hickory, 2" wide, cut quarter sawn, so the grain runs full length, with no grain run-off. The osage is 68", rift sawn, nice straight grain, running full length, again, with minimal run-off, and no knots. Both boards, I have cut myself.
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OK, on to glue-up. I'll be using TB3. All surfaces must be clean, for a strong joint. Any dust will cause a weak joint, so I use my shop vac to clean my bench top and board surfaces. Gluing happens at the molecular level, so there is no need to rough up the surfaces to be glued.
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Osage tends to be a bit oily, so I like to clean the gluing surface with isopropyl alcohol. I use presaturated swabs, which are lint free. I allow at least 20 mins. for it to dry. I don't do this with the hickory.
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More pics of surface cleaning with alcohol.
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Time for glue. I lay a heavy bead of TB3 on the backing strip. Don't be stingey with the glue... it's cheap compared to the material.
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I like to smooth out the glue with a 2" sponge brush. No chance of bristles ending up in your glue. I'm also wearing latex gloves, to prevent contamination from oil on my hands.
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After I've smoothed out the glue on the backing strip, I place it on the form. The other nice thing about TB3... it cleans up with water, so I have a wet rag handy.
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Thanks for taking the time to do this build along. Can't help but notice
that your shop is way to clean :o ;D
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If you haven't noticed, I use a layer of wax paper on my work bench. Makes clean up easier. Next step, of course, is applying glue to the osage board. Then, I lay the two boards together. You don't have to rush, but you do need to work with purpose, as most wood glues have an open time of about 20 minutes.
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Sorry, that's it for now. My wife has purchased tickets to an all you can eat Ukranian food dinner. Cabbage rolls, perogies, beer... I gotta go. Besides, I'm getting the look... she doesn't want to be late! I'll post more later tonight!
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sandals on your feet, an apron :o, no wood shavings on the floor or work table, everything in its place...and you call yourself a primitive bowyer. Sheesh!!! :D ;D ;)
I'm looking forward to your build-a-long. Hickory backed osage is a great combo and the Holmsgaard design should put it over the top. 8) Pat
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OK, back from dinner and a movie. Where were we? Oh, yah... glue up. Now that I've applied glue to both surfaces, and matched them on the form, I start with the center clamp.
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From here on, the remainder of the glue-up is done with rubber inner tubes. I previously used clamps, but I found my glue lines were inconsistent. I start wrapping from the center, working my way out to the tips. I apply good firm pressure, stretching the rubber as much as I can.
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I continue working out towards the tips. It usually takes two inner tubes per side. I try to wrap so there is no overlap, allowing air to circulate, and so I can see glue oozing from the joint. You have to work fairly quick.
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Finish wrapping each side, right out to the tips. You should see glue flowing out of the joint, this way you know the joint will not be glue starved.
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I usually flip the form around in the vise, and wrap the other side. That's it. Glue up is done. Although the manufacturer says clamping time is only a couple of hours, I will leave the boards wrapped on the form for overnight, and I will not stress the joint for at least 48 hours. No hot box. My shop is room temp, and humidity controlled at 40% RH.
The big red clamps are only holding the rubber ends in place, they're not doing any other work.
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Yah, my shop is clean! Doing this build along was a good incentive to tidy up the pig pen!! The apron? It's leather... I made it myself. No wood chips? That's coming! I really don't profess to being a stricktly "primitive" bowyer. I like bows from staves, like everyone else, but I also like to not limit myself. I truly love building these Holmegaard bows from backed boards. Not primitive, but certainly from a primitive design.
My next project is a 74" yew self bow, about 60#, bending full compass, horn nocks. I've just aquired an absolutely gorgeous yew stave... no knots, straight.
OK, I'm pooped. Sack time. More tomorrow.
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adb, I meant no offense. I am not a primitive bowyer by any means. Steel tools, band saw, belt sander, synthetic glues and finishes. That's how primitive I am. Now my shop on the other hand looks like a bomb went off in it.
Like I said, the hickory backed osage is a great combo and with a Holmsgaard design, it should be a real good shooter. Again looking forward to the outcome. Pat
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Hey, Pat B
None taken!! My work space is also quite small, so I have to kind of keep it a bit tidy, otherwise I'm tripping over myself! Yes, a bandsaw, belt sander, table saw, etc., have all become part of the arsenal of power tools. It saves time... and I'm a weekend, hobby bowyer. However, when the rubber hits the road, and the wood starts to bend, it's hand tools only. More of that to come over the next few weeks!
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Your sense of purpose and your precision is impressive. This is going to be way too much fun to watch!
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So... the glue-up has been curing on the form for 24hrs. I've unwrapped it, and taken it off the form. Now, I am able to remove the packing tape off the face off the form, eliminating the glue run-off.
I think it was a bit hard to see the packing tape, on the form, in the initial pics.
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The glue line looks really good. You can see there is no glue starving at the line.
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Here is the glue-up, warts and all! The board is 68", and the hickory backings are all cut at 72", so the backing sticks out each end a bit. Next step will be drawing out the bow's profile, on back and sides. Hopefully, tomorrow after work!
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Don't let these guys bother you. My shop is clean, too! ::) Jim
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Who wants a clean shop. ::) I keep it that way on purpose so when I want to start a fire I got plenty of kindling. ;D Justin
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Hi, Everybody,
Well... for tonight's segment, we're going to lay out the bow's dimension profile. Because the backing is just slightly wider than the osage belly wood, I'm going to draw the profile on the belly. I normally do this on the back, but it doesn't really matter with a board bow. Here's what you'll need: pencils, pencil sharpener, 36" ruler, 24" center point ruler, sharpie, square, and eraser.
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After consulting with the customer, just to double check, the bow's dimensions will be: 66" overall length. I always use pin nocks with a Holmegaard bow, for two reasons: it just looks better (and is historically correct), and you want to make the tips as light as possible. Pin nocks only require 1/2", so the bow will be 65" NTN when finished.
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The first order of business, is to establish a center line. This is the line which will be the basis for all other measuring, so it has to be STRAIGHT! The easiest way to do this is to use a plumb line. I use a piece of black FF string. First, I'll use the square, and mark the bow's center. Next, I'll lay the string down the long center of the stave, and hold it in place with spring clamps. Because the board isn't perfectly straight, you can't use it's edges as reference guides.
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If you don't get this first line straight, your bow will end up with the nocks and handle not lining up, causing limb twist, and all manner of nasty gremlins. If you're building a pyramid, and you're 1" out at the bottom, it's going to be 10' out at the top. Take your time, and get this part right!
After you have your string centered, and pulled tight and clamped, mark some reference points with a pencil. Remove the string, and draw your line. Eyeball down the line, and check that it's straight... dead straight. Trust your eye, it has an unbelievable ability to see nonuniformity.
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Next, I'll measure 33" from the center line to establish each limb length. As you can see, the center line is not exactly in the middle of the board's end. This doesn't matter. That's because the board isn't exactly straight... your line is straight.
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First profile will be the handle. I like them to be 4". It's a good fit for most hands, and I like to keep it as short as possible, to allow for more working limb length. More on that later. So, from your center line, measure each direction 2". I also make the handle 1" wide. Mark that out, as well. Keep things straight, and square.
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From here, I make the fades 2".
With osage, I'm only making the limbs 1.5" wide. White woods (hickory, maple, elm) would require a wider working limb width.., at least 2-2.5".
So, from your center line, draw your working limb lines 1.5" wide, and connect these with the 1" handle width. Sorry, I cut off the last bit of the fade profile, but we'll see it better later.
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From here, I usually establish the length of the outer, non-bending, limb portions. Regardless of overall length, i never make these more than 12". Your final product has to be functional, but it also has to be pleasing to the eye, at least for me.
For this bow, I'm making the outer limbs 11" total. So, with 1/2" pin nocks, they'll be 10.5" long.
The fades, from bending inner working limb, to outer non-bending limb, are also 2". How did I arrive at these dimensions? Trial & error. The bow has to be proportionate.
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So, from the 1.5" working limb, the profile will fade over 2" to 1", then to 1/2" at the distal end of the limb.
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All marks, so far, are pencil.
So, with these dimensions of handle, and outer limb, we end up with 16" inner working limbs.
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Once I've drawn out all lines in pencil, I'll go back over the outer profiles with a sharpie. This will give me a good non-fading line for cutting with the bandsaw.
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Final review:
66" OAL. 4" handle. 2" fade to 1.5" wide inner working limb, 2" fade to 1" outer limb, ending in 1/2" pin nock.
1/16" is taken off each edge of the pin nock, also, to provide a shoulder for the string. More on that later.
Next step... making some saw dust with the bandsaw. Wanna see a pic of my new baby? Well, it's not that new. I've had it just about a year.
Craftsman Professional bandsaw, 1 HP, 14". I'm in love. If you buy a saw, make it a good one. If you buy a cheapie, you'll kick yourself until you get a good one.
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Some completely unrelated side news... I live in Western Canada, and it's been COLD here lately. How cold? Last night it was -41C. Two nights ago, it was -37C with a 30k/hr wind, making it -51C with the windchill!! Yes, that's NOT a typo... -51C. How cold is that? Exposed flesh freezes in less than 30 secs, and if you go outside and take a piss, it freezes before it hits the ground!! (Just kidding!!). But, it is damn cold!! Global warming... what a bunch of bunk! It's hard to describe -50 if you haven't experienced it... let's just say... it hurts!
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great build along thanks for helping me realize I'm still a student, It is so cool to see all of you do your work and the cold I have verified that one years ago funny isn't it.
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Yea we have -30 wind chills here today sucks big time, when its that cold ya can spit ice cubes ;)
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This is a cool build-along. I really appreciate it because I want to build just such a bow after seeing your previous Holmie posts. Jim
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We just got back from Calistoga CA where we were sitting in natural hot springs. They were much hotter than -41C. Yikes.
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Thank you for doing this build-a-long. I am learning much from this thread. Excellent!
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Great build along , Those are going to be pin noks? Nice Band saw, I'm still leanin with my Machete. I will be hoping I don't break my first Holmegaard.
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Very nice buildalong. Very detailed and discriptive. I can related to those cold temps. We were down to -10 a few weeks ago with the wind chill kicking it down even further.....Keenan
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Very good buildalong! Thanks for letting us share it with you! ;)
Wells
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Hi, Everyone
Sorry I didn't make any progress yesterday. My wife, Linda, was writing a paper for a University class, and I don't think she would have appreciated me running the bandsaw! The plan is to cut out the profile this afternoon and evening. I'll keep you all posted.
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ADB, I'm watching this one with eyes and mind wide open! I recently decided to give tthis style a try and hope to start sometime this winter.
BTW, I'm in the Maritimes and I have a brother out west.....He's in the oil patch and it's been -40 to -50 for the last few days....I understand trhe cold!
Can't wait to get back to this one!
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Hi, Everybody,
It's Saturday morning. Shop time. My time. Time to make some sawdust!! Coffee is in, and I'm ready!!
First, we're going to cut out the profile which was drawn on the belly. I usually draw on the back, but I didn't have a lot of extra room on this one, and because the backing strip was just slightly wider than the belly wood, I didn't want to get off the board. Doesn't really matter.
This isn't rocket science. Cut just outside your line, following your profile.
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Keep going, all the way around. Go slow. Make your cuts straight. No sense rushing. When cutting with the bandsaw, I wear ear muffs and safety glasses. Safety first. I'm half deaf already from shooting most of my life. Upland bird hunting is another of my passions.
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After finishing cutting the outside profile, I'm going to remove some wood from the belly side of the 16" inner working limb portion. I draw a line 3/8" from the belly side, tapering it through the 2" profile tapers. You could do this by hand, but removing some belly wood just saves time. The total thickness of the two boards is 1", so I'm leaving 5/8" to tiller. Don't take off too much belly wood with the bandsaw!! Remember, wood which is twice as wide is 2X as strong, but wood which is twice as thick, is 8X as strong. In other words, you don't have to remove much belly wood, to change the wood's ability to bend. Leave yourself some material to work with. Before cutting these side profiles, this stave bends about as much as a cast iron frying pan.
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I turned the stave on edge, and remove the 3/8" of belly wood. Keep the board flat, otherwise your side profile cut will wander, and you may end up removing too much wood.
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Do the same thing on the other limb.
The next side profile I'm going to cut, is in the outer non-bending limb portions. From the pin nock, I measure from the back 1/2", and draw the line to the distal taper. Do the same for the other outer limb, and cut them out, keeping the board square on edge, so your cut doesn't wander, and end up crooked.
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Once you start cutting out your profiles, you can see the quality of your glue line. The glue "line" is actually a poor term, because you should not be able to see a line at all. If you've done a good job during your glue-up, it should look like two pieces of wood together. You should not be able to see any gaps, or glue. The line should be tight, and straight.
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Here are some pics of the finished profile cuts. So, the only original belly profile lines left, are those on the 4" handle. You can see that the osage has already started to darken! The freshly cut belly wood is lighter.
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More pics
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Pics of pin nock profile, and pic from the backing side.
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Here is a hint, for all of you with bandsaws... when you're done cutting, release the tension on the truck (belt). It'll make it last much longer. I learned that the hard way. My saw has an external hand crank to adjust truck tension, so I just crank it loose when I'm done.
Also, you may have noticed I have some burn marks from cutting. This means the blade speed is too high. Osage is hard, and you need to slow down the cutting speed if you're getting burn marks. The last wood I was cutting on the saw was pine, and I had the speed turned up, forgetting to drop it down before starting.
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After all the cutting is done, I can see how the stave bends. How much belly wood to remove is something I've learned with experience. With osage & hickory, I know it's going to be a very strong combination, and removing 3/8" is no problem. Right off the saw, this stave is almost floor tillered!!
Unfortunately, that's it for today. The lovely lady standing behind me is my Mother. Yesterday was her 69th B'day, and she's come to our home (from a couple hours drive away) to go out tonight for a family dinner. So, time to be a host!!
I'm very pleased thus far. Things are going well. These are two really nice pieces of wood... staright grained. Hopefully, tomorrow, I can start the fun part... tillering!! From here on, no more power tools. It'll be hand tools only, to the end. Usually from this point, I'll round most of the edges, to reduce my chances up picking up slivers, starting with the hickory back.
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Oh yea, it is starting to look like a bow! Very cool.
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Hey, Bob
Yes, it's actually starting to look like a bow!! Bending a bit, too!! The fun part is coming.
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Your mom looks totally impressed ;) ;D
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Yah! She kinda looks like she's expecting an explosion! My Mom is a great Lady. She's very full of life, and outgoing... a really happy person. Not serious like the expression she has on behind me! She doesn't have much interest in bow building! She's waiting for me to take her furniture shopping! Gotta go!
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Good use for the shoe too. Justin
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Yeah, that pic of you and your mom is priceless. I can hear it now... "the ;boys with their toys." ;DJim
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Hi, Everyone
I made some more progress today. When we left off yesterday, the profiles had all been cut on the bandsaw. So, the bow is all squarey and rough. The biggest job from here, is to make everything all roundey and nice!!
I should offer a word on my working set up. I have a 5" vise mounted on a pedestal, so the top of the vise is 38" off the floor. I don't take credit for inventing this... I first saw it on Mickey Lotz's website. Long story short... it works great.
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So, next step is to use my rasp to smooth all the bandsaw cuts and burn marks from all surfaces, making the edges nice and round, and even. I start with the bow on edge, working the side profiles. Be careful to keep your 2" taper profiles even.
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I'm very careful to always work from the hickory backing INTO the belly wood. Never work from belly to backing... you may lift the back, or raise a splinter, ruining the bow. Also, when working the belly side, work from the fade UP into the handle, or distal non-bending limb. Never work down into the belly from the handle, you may create a hinge.
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After I've smoothed up all surfaces, I usually sand the edges a bit with a sanding block. I like to really smooth the hickory backing edges. This mostly keeps me from getting splinters! At this point, I haven't done anything with the nocks.
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This portion took me about 3 hours. No need to rush. Smooth things up, keep your tapers and fades even. After this work, I moved to the nocks. Pin nocks are easy. I like them. I think they're a lot easier to keep straight, and in line. From the rough outline cut on the saw, I even up the side depth. I also round it from belly to back. Next, I use a 1/8" round file to set in grooves, bringing them to a point on the belly side.
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I just keep shaping them, until they look pleasing, making the grooves a bit deeper.
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When I think I'm getting close, I like to lay a string down in the nock, to see how it's fitting. On the hickory side, DO NOT violate the backing!! I don't do anything. The pressure from the string will dent it just a bit. If you file thru the backing, it will weaken the nock.
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When you're done one nock, flip the bow around, and make the other one exactly the same. Look at them both, compare, and make them both even.
At this point, I've been watching the floor tiller, and working the limbs on both sides. I can feel it flexing a bit more. Time to put on the long string, and see how she really bends!!
My idea of the "long string" is one which is basically the same length as the bow. Not braced, but no string hanging down. These are the first pics of her bending on the tiller tree. I've worked the limbs by hand, pulling them gently about 50 times, working the bow only about 6 - 8". The last pic is of the bow statically drawn at 20". I leave it just long enough to take a quick pic!! It's nice to shoot a pic, and then you can sit back and analyze it at your leisure.
For first time up on the tiller, it looks pretty good!! It certainly has that "Holmegaard" shape. It looks to me like it's bending pretty hard right out of the first fades, so I'm going to leave that area alone.
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Remember, when tillering a Holmie, you have to ignore the outer non-bending limbs. Take a piece of paper, and cover up the outer limbs, just looking at the inner limbs. It looks to me like it's time to brace it!
The outer, non-bending limbs are still quite thick. They don't need to be. The next step, before I do any more tillering, will be to lighten the outer limb thickness a bit. However, they should not bend! Obviously, you want them as light as possible, but non-bending.
OK, enough for today. It's Sunday evening... family time!!
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I'm starting to drool. Is drool bad for keyboards?
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One of the best most detailed descriptive buildalongs I have seen. Good job on that one. Steve
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This is an excellent build-a-long. There is much to learn here.
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I've been very lucky, so far, with this one. It's half tillered, and I haven't even started tillering it yet!! I don't want to get cocky... bad things happen when you don't listen to the wood. I have to continue proceeding with thoughtful purpose.
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Yes, it is a very good build along and the bow is looking really good. Now I'm really looking forward to making one of these. Jim
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great build-a-long, really learning some neat stuff about homies. (now I understand the songs better) ;D
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Hi, Everyone
Well, I managed to make a little progress this evening. When we left off last time, I had just finished roughing in the pin nocks. Tonight, I wanted to slim down the outer limbs a bit, to lighten them some, but not to the point that they bend. When I'm removing wood with the rasp, I like to use a simple set of calipers, to keep track that I'm removing equal amounts from both limbs. This is not, by any means, a method of tillering, but it allows me to have a rough idea that I'm removing equal amounts of wood from both limbs.
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I put the long string back on and worked the bow for about 50 pulls. Not too far, just to get it moving, and used to bending. Teach it to bend slowly.
Here is how I decide when it is time to go to the short string: if I have the long string on (and remember my definition of a long string), and I'm working the limbs to what I would brace the bow at, I'll measure the weight with my bow scale. In this case, the weight is 35# at what would be a low brace height. Perfect. Remember, our target weight is 52 - 57# @27". So, if we now brace the bow, we have 15# to work with, and we can exercise the limbs a bit and not pull it past target weight. If we measured the weight at what we thought would be brace height, and it came out to 50#, the moment we pull the bow, we will probably go past target weight, and cause needless set.
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Time to brace! First brace should always be conservative, at least an inch or two below normal. My final brace height is usually about 6.5" to 7". I measure this from the bow's back. Low brace = more cast, but the bow is usually noisy, with a lot of hand shock. More on this later. There is another consideration on brace height with Holmies, which we'll get to later.
So, first brace height is 5".
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Looks like a Holmegaard, doesn't it. I love that Holmie profile! Nothing else like it.
As far as short string goes, I like to get to it as soon as possible. Brace it as soon as you safely can. It's hard to know exactly where you're at with the long string.
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Last time I had it up on the tree, I thought I needed to remove some wood nearer to the distal fades, to get it bending not so much at the first fades near the handle. So, I took a bit off the outer half of both inner limbs.
From low brace, it's now 50# @ 20". We've got lots of room. I usually work the bow for at least 50 pulls between wood removal. I also like to pull it to just below target weight, and see how much draw we have.
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It still needs to bend a bit more at the outer portion of the inner limbs. Still looks pretty even. The right limb might be a little behind. I have not removed any wood from the first 3 -4" of the inner limbs, just past the handle fades. For the remainder of tiller, I probably won't, either. I'll try to get it to final weight by removing wood from the outer half of the inner limbs. We'll see.
Remember when tillering a Holmie, you only look at the inner limbs. With this picture, take a piece of paper and hold it up to the image, hiding both of the outer non-bending limbs, right where they start to thicken. What do you think now?
Certainly, we have to get the inner limbs bending in a more circular fashion, to distribute to stress over the entire limb. Because the outer non-bending limbs are long, it looks like the bow is doing all the bending right at the fades.
Look at the string angle. See how shallow it is? This is the main advantage of this design. Low string angle, no stacking, low finger pinch.
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It has hardly taken any set, at this point. Maybe 3/8".
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From here, I'll probably set aside the rasp, and remove wood with a scraper only. We're in the ball park, not the time to rush things.
That's it for tonight! More soon.
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Watching your Build Along is much easier to remember that reading all those articles Ive been searching for, thanks for the lesson.PK
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This is like reading a suspense novel. What will happen to our hero in the next episode?
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Good day, Everyone!
Well, we're back in the deep freeze, here in Mid-West Canada. The temp this morning was a balmy -32C, with a brisk wind, making it -50C with the windchill! A good morning to stay inside, and work in the shop!
When we left off a few days ago, we had the bow at low brace height, and 50# @ 20". Today, I've tillered further. I put away the rasp, and from now on, I'll only be using the scraper and sand paper to get it to final weight and draw. Remember, our goal is: 52 - 57# @ 27".
There is NOTHING worse, in my opinion, than woprking with crappy tools that are dull. Cheap dull tools make me curse. So, for my scrapers, I like to keep them sharp and burred with a special tool. It's a variable burnishing tool, which sets the burr angle. As you all know, a scraper edge should not be square for working wood, It should have a burr, or hook, on the cutting edge. Depending on how aggressively you want to remove material, will determine the hook angle, up to about 15 degrees.
First, I'll place my scraper in the bench vise, square up the edges with an 8" flat mill bastard file, and the put the hook edge on.
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Once this is done, you should be able to feel a nice hooked edge on your scraper.
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In the past, I just used to work my scraper in my hands. I found this caused 2 problems: my hands got tired (especially my thumbs), and my finger tips were burned, caused by the heat generated by the friction of scraping.
So, I purchased a scraper holder. Worth every penny.
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It's a hard resin plastic body, guaranteed unbreakable. It has two thumb screw holders on each edge, and the middle thumb screw allows you to put a bow in the scraper.
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Depending on how flat you want the surface you are working, you can set the amount of bend in the scraper's middle. Remember, if you want a flat surface, you CAN NOT use a flat tool.
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OK, it's ready to go!
Now, I'm removing the tool marks from all the surfaces, except the back. The bandsaw marks are all gone, but the marks from the rasp all need to be removed.
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I'm not really tillering with this step, but I am removing wood. It's important to try and do this evenly, so your bow doesn't get out of tiller too bad.
So, after the tool marks are mostly gone, I'll low brace it again, and put it back up on the tiller tree and work the limbs for at least 50 or more pulls, being careful not to pull it past final weight or length.
I'm also watching to see how the limbs are moving, and because I'm pulling directly on the string, I can feel the weight, especially the initial weight. Initial weight should be strong. In other words, the bow's first bit of pull should feel strong. I don't like using a pully system. I can't feel what the wood is doing as easily. I know this is a bit more dangerous, but if I go easy, I can feel if the bow is stacking. I haven't been clocked yet, and I've used this method for quite a few years.
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Looks to me like the right limb is a bit behind. This is with the bow at low brace, by the way. So, I'll remove some more material.
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Next, I want to bring the brace height up to almost normal. Here, it's at 6.25". Remember, that's from the bow's back. I just love that braced Holmie profile!
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From here, it's just more tillering and working the limbs. I only take a few scrapes, and work it some more. At least 50 pulls. Remember our tillering mantra: remove wood where the limb doesn't bend, and leave it alone where it bends too much!
Well, here she is... getting VERY close. In this pic, it is 60# @ 26"!! Time to back off. From here on, it's sandpaper time. It still looks like the right limb is still just a smidge behind.
Remember, take a piece of paper, and cover up the outer limbs, looking at the inner bending limbs only. Move the paper up from the tips, until you hit the steps where the outer limbs thicken.
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I only had the bow statically braced on the tree just long enough to take a pic. Set seems very low. Here is a pic of the bow, immediately after unbrace. Looks to me like less than 1".
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One of the real advantages of the Holmegaard design is string angle. Look how low the string angle is in the previous pic of the Holmegaard on the tiller tree. Now, compare that to a normally tillered bow, like this one. Less stacking, less finger pinch. For the same draw length and weight, a Holmie is smoooooth, and doesn't feel as heavy.
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Time to do some finishing work! Hopefully, more posts later today. I have to remember that the fellow I'm making this for is a leftie, so when it comes time for the arrow pass and rest, I have to put them on the other side!!
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I've been doing some sanding. 150X grit at the moment. I've rounded off the backing edges, and smoothed up all surfaces. The back is completely flat, with slightly radiused edges. The osage belly is rounded... just slightly. It definately is not flat.
The brace height is now at 6.5". I'm going to leave the bow braced for several hours, and sweat it a bit. This helps to further teach it to bend. The weight right now is just a touch heavy. We're at 58# @ 27". No worries. With some shooting, sweating, and more finish work, she should be spot on.
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If you recall, I mentioned another important aspect of brace height, in regard to Holmegaard bows. It's important to keep the string off the outer non-bending limbs. The string should only touch the limb at the nock. If the outer limbs are too thick , and the string touches them, the bow is VERY noisy. I mean TWANGGGG!!
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There is no rest or nock point, but at this point, I like to shoot the bow a bit. I just nock an arrow so it looks just reasonably (slightly) tip down, and shoot off my fist. First 4 arrows are OK! I have a 10 yard "range" set in my basement.
The cast seems... very snappy! I'm very pleased!
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The last few pics are a compilation of tiller progression, so you can see, a little easier, how it actually took shape.
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I've had a PM regarding where to purchase some of the tools I've been using, especially the scraper holder and burnishing tool. If anyone else is interested, drop me a PM.
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Nice Nice Nice :)
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Great job and thanks for taking the time to do this.
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BEAUTY!!! :) :) :)
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hey, good bow!
I also live in Western Canada (Vancouver Island, actually) and I wonder: where did you find the osage lumber?
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Hi,
I live in Saskatoon. The osage lumber? I bought it directly from a sawmill in Oklahoma. If you want their name & address, send me a PM.
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Can't wait to see the Rest and the Rest. True Professional you are.PK
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very well done sir! i never took much intrest in this style of bow before, but youve got me thinking! cant wait to see the next step...
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hi, uhhh...what's a pm?
i would like the address of the mill you mentioned...what kind of prices should I expect?
and I agree with the burnt hill archer: before I saw your posting, I never saw the attraction of a Holmegaard...but now I do!
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Radius, A PM is a personal message...a feature of this site(and other sites) to contact other members without using personal e-mail.
adb, I love the design and your execution of it. These ancient designs are quite sophisticated. Thanks for the time and effort you put into this thread. I will definitely reference it in the future. Pat
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Great build-a-long thanks for sharing ! Excellent Job !! Nice bow !!!
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Very very nice job, mate.
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hey, i just rec'd a yew stave in the mail from Medicine Bow...you think Yew would make a good holmegaard?
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Yew as a Holmegaard? I suppose. I haven't tried one, but I guess it would work. Personally, I wouldn't waste a nice piece of yew on a Holmie... I'd probably make an ELB. Especially if you haven't made a Holmegaard before, it's pretty likely you'll break it.
Use osage, or better yet, a white wood for your first Holmie. Good luck!!
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Thing is...I don't have a "nice" piece of yew. I have a 70" piece which is knotty, deflexed, not straight....elb is english long bow i guess? I don't intend to break the bow! God knows I've broken enough already. My son broke one I made for him just the other day. He shot it alot. Then I made a new string for it...he was checking it out...and now the pieces of that bow are in the back of my truck. I think if I take it slow and be careful, I can make it fly....lotta work though...
I am the guy from BC who PM'd you about your osage source...what is the address/website of that mill?
Thanks
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Ya think it would if the tips were fat, I was olways told that yew is weak at the tips, true? :)
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that's what i'm thinking. yew is supposed to be very elastic, and so it should stand up well to having a shorter bending area. If it has the thickened tips, then it will be nice and strong, and i'll put something over the tip to help the sapwood manage the stress of the string...i'm gonna try it!
[hey! how do i post pictures on here?
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Yew as a Holmegaard? I suppose. I haven't tried one, but I guess it would work.
trust me, it works ;D the oldest holmis (about 10,000 years) were elm, because that soon after the ice-age, yew had not started growing in europe yet. later finds were yew (i think about 6,000 years old). them prehistoric boys new good bow wood when they saw it.
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thanks! now, what about posting pictures?
Ack! I wanna get to work on that stave, but I'm a contractor with an antsy client, so here I go on the Lord's Day to install some trim.
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okay, found time to work on the yew holmie...first time working with yew, actually (all my others have been hickory, ash, and the abominable red oak)
18 and a half inches of bending area each limb...10 inches cam...one limb bends fairly evenly and the other does not bend at all...the thing looks like a hockey stick...need to adjust it with heat : straighten and reflex it, and then it will be good.
does anybody recurve the holmegaard tips?
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You don't have to recurve the Holmegaard tips. The string angle is already shallow, compared to conventional bows.
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but will recurving them make them more snappy to shoot, or increase poundage in a bow I seem to have made too light?
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Recurved tips will store more energy, therefore improving cast. However, I don't believe they will increase draw weight. Recurving Holmegaard tips would be difficult, if not impossible, considering the thickness of the tips.
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welll, we'll see how she goes...this bow has a lot of work left to go before i can even tiller it: it's deflexed and twisted in a big way....i have cut out the basic HOlmie pattern, and have the bending limbs between 5/16 and 7/16...that's good enough to steam bend it ... now i just need to find the time!
btw, how do i post pictures on here
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Well, I finally managed to completely finish this bow. Final tally: 55# @27", 66" OAL, 65" NTN. Prairie rattler snake skin backed. Strunk style handle wrap. Pin nocks, with yellow heart tip overlays.
With the original tiller, I was getting a fair bit of hand shock, so I lightened the tips, and added very thin tip overlays for safety.
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More pics
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More pics
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very cool! and a lefty, too!
my yew holmie is dragging its feet...heat reflexed it earlier...next step, use heat to straighten it...then on to tillering
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i seriously think, that the bows we get to see here on PA are getting constantly better/nicer/more beautiful! - right before i had a look at keenans syringa handlewrap; this here is totally different but great as well!
really looks like a fantastic bow! thanks for sharing you knowledge!
frank
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Awesome looking bow and excellent buildalong. You did a great job on that and great attention to detail. Keenan
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I think that bow turned out just super!
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Somebody is going to be really happy with that beauty!
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thanks for the tip on the osage...
I made the yew holmegaard. Had to do it! The stick was so full of knots, it had to be a flatbow, and I never made a holmie before. I love it. It's so fast! Easy draw. No breaking it at all. Couldn't break it with a truck. It feels a bit light on the draw, but is still a very fast shooter.
I'll be making more holmegaards in the future, for sure!
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Well, I'm glad to say... this bow is finally on the way to it's happy owner. It's like giving up one of your kids!! ENJOY!!
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thanks for doing this build-a-long, never buit a homy before, but got the urge to now. very nicely done.
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what size of blades do you run in that big bandsaw, buddy?
at work we have an ancient super mega bandsaw with a 1/4 inch blade....god, it's perfect.
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Hey, Scott
I believe it's either 3/8" or 1/2", but to tell you the truth, I'm not 100% sure. Fairly fine toothed, for cutting hard wood.
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well, it does the trick for you anyway...that's pretty great
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great build along, lots of detail :)
thanks
bryan
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Adam, this is the coolest build along that I've ever seen. :D I am definitely going to have to try making one of these! I was just wondering, have you ever made one from maple, or do you think it would work ok?
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im sorry i know this thread wasn't replied to since 08 until recently. i have to thank Cameroo for bringing this back up. this is a great thread. thank you for posting it and thanks for bringing it back up from the depths even if it wasnt intentional.
regards
Dustin D.
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that is one sweet bow
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Hi adb
Firstly let me say; Thank You! for such a detailed build-along.
A few questions:
I live in the UK and osage is getting increasingly more difficult to get hold of due to import restrictions.
Lemonwood is still in plentiful supply and I am wondering if you think that I can still work to the same limb width
as per your specifications with your osage build? Or do you think I would be better going for a bit more width?
Also, what are the dimensions for cutting the arrow rest from the centreline?
Being an Englishman, I have only ever built English Longbows (usually tri-laminate) and I have recently
completed a double laminate (Ipe+Hickory) replica of a Mary Rose Bow (full compass - working handle)). I have been looking for dimensions
for a Holmegaard for some time now as I wish to make one. It was searching the internet for this info I came across your build-a-long.
Boy, what a gem it is to. Your post has answered nearly all my questions and totally inspired me.
Best of British to you.
Gary
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I would try lemonwood at the same dimensions. Also, I don't cut arrow rests into any of my bows. The handle length is 4", and I set my arow pass abut 1.5 - 2" above center.
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Whoops, my apologies. I didn't look to close at the the handle section, I see now that you have set the arrow rest under the grip material.
Thanks for your response.
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Awesome bow! I have to try one of these now. Thanks for the excellent build along!
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Wow that is a goodlooking piece. Markus.
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I notice that you use TB3 and you use rubber bands to fasten the backing on. I use TB3 on my backed bows, and I use clamps, and works fine, but it's time consuming and takes a lot of clamps. I clamp every 2 inches so I have 36 clamps at times. I didn't think that TB3 would harden without oxygen, and with rubber bands I don't think it would get air in order to dry. But if it will dry ok with rubber bands, then I'll switch. BTW I live in eastern Ontario, Canada, and gets pretty cold here too. Thanks for doing the build a long.
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I've been using bicycle tire inner tubes for clamping for years now, with no issues. It actually works better than clamps, and is much cheaper. I leave them wrapped overnight, and have never had a problem.
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I didn't think that TB3 would harden without oxygen, and with rubber bands I don't think it would get air in order to dry.
whether your using clamps or inner tube or ubber bands
you are doing the same thing wen they are applied
you are squeezing all the oxygen out of the glue joint
most adhesives are anaerobic
which means they set up with the lack of oxyegen present ;)
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It's not so much oxygen that's needed, but rather the circulation of air so the glue will dry.
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I notice that you use TB3 and you use rubber bands to fasten the backing on. I use TB3 on my backed bows, and I use clamps, and works fine, but it's time consuming and takes a lot of clamps. I clamp every 2 inches so I have 36 clamps at times. I didn't think that TB3 would harden without oxygen, and with rubber bands I don't think it would get air in order to dry. But if it will dry ok with rubber bands, then I'll switch. BTW I live in eastern Ontario, Canada, and gets pretty cold here too. Thanks for doing the build a long.
I live in Eastern Ontario too! This tutorial also got me thinking about using inner tubes... Going to make a boo backed osage holmie now!
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Wow see what happens when you wander off the bows section ;D I have been wanting to try one of these for a while was not shure on how to lay it out....thanks a million, and what an awsome looking bow ;)
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I knew I shouldn't have started reading this thread. I knew it! I knew it! Now I have to explain to the boss that another bow is needed. How else can I be expected to survive the coming ice age? Just imagine that creepy scientists clone the woolly mammoth and release this mega fauna back into the wild...then the ice age hits...then I walk outside with a Holmegaard bow that I made.
Awesome job.