Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: PK on January 26, 2008, 02:05:40 am
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I would think that Finishes would peel off Hide glued sinew backing.
I would like to know what finish would be best
1.True oil
2.Spar varnish
3.Poly, water based or oil based
4.Laquer
5.Shellac
?
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I've used Tru-Oil, poly spray and Massey finish(2ton epoxy thinned with acetone)on sinew backed bows. My Medicine bow has all three. ;D Shellac will stick to it. You could give it a coat of shellac then add whatever finish to it you want. Pat
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.................?= pine pitch.......bob
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I've used Tru-Oil, poly spray and Massey finish(2ton epoxy thinned with acetone)on sinew backed bows. My Medicine bow has all three. ;D Shellac will stick to it. You could give it a coat of shellac then add whatever finish to it you want. Pat
Thanks Pat, I do believe in shellac,was not sure if laquer would stick to shellac.right now i just use shellac.
I just made some hide glue out of left over goat, deer and cow hide, now I need to get the senew.
I asked the meat market if they had some cow tendins or backstrap, not sure if that will do,I don't really see any difference.
Thanks for the info.
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.................?= pine pitch.......bob
Thanks Bob, that would definately be primitive. I would have to dilute the pitch with something would'nt me? Thats some sticky stuff.Thanks for the reminder of our Ancestors. :)
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.................?= pine pitch.......bob
Hi ..can you plzz explain to me whatt is this 'pine pitch'??...or how is made??
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it seems that you underestimate the strength of hide glue (with no intention of sounding like a smart@^%).
I have managed to pull sinew/ hide glue free from failed bows but always pull up slivers and/or chunks of wood as well.
I can't imagine that any finish is stronger than hide glue.
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There are also some minerals that can be added to the hide glue to make it a insoluble finish. Never underestimate the wisdom of the ancients. ;) Justin
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Akila, Pine pitch is the resin from pine trees. Orher conifers have pitch the works also and even some fruit woods do to.
PK, you can dissolve pitch in alcohol to use as a finish. I use it on primitive arrows to seal the wood and sinew/hide glue wraps. I think that if you cook the pitch a bit first( this evaporates the volatile components) then add the alcohol it won't be sticky. I have even used uncooked pitch. It takes a little longer to cure but it will. Be very careful cooking the pitch. It is VERY flammable!!! Pat
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Pat, the dissovled pine pitch is a great idea to use for a finish, I'll probably be using it from now on. I was always at a loss as to how to finish my primitive arrows.
Sean
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Sean, It works well as a finish. You can drop some clumps of pitch in a small jar and add the alcohol. After a day or so you will have a dark amber liquid and sediment on the bottom. I strain it through cotton cloth to remove the solids and trash. I use a small paint brush(watercolor) to apply it. The brush will harden up after use but will re-soften when put back in the "varnish" mixture. You can probably wipe it on with a soft rag also if you don't mind getting the pitch on your hands. ;D Pat
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Now How do i Get pine pitch whitout cuting down a pine tree? I noticed lots of christmas trees in alleys maybe that would work. ;D
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There are also some minerals that can be added to the hide glue to make it a insoluble finish. Never underestimate the wisdom of the ancients. ;) Justin
Mr Justin, What minerals? Im experimenting with Hide glue this week but, your tips would greately be liked. :)
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........Pk----------Look fer pine trees that are oozing pitch (from a wound ) usually a amber lookin' sticky substance. Ya can show respect here, there is no need ta cut one down. X-mas trees will work ifn ya get em and all this is free. The hide glue mineral addition and waterproofing is another whole subject and project.....bob
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If you look around the trunk of most Christmas trees and at the stump end where it was cut you will usually find some pitch.
Pat, If you get a little pitch on your hands you can always lick it off. ;) What other finish can you say that about. ;D Justin
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HI...HERE IS A GR8 LINK ABOUTE HIDE GLUE.......YOU CAN FIND HERE DIFERENT WAIS OF MAKING HIDE GLUE...WATTER PROOF,, OR MORE FLEXIBILE..ETC.
http://www.deller.com/newpage8.htm
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;)
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As a gluten for punishment, I'm not too sure how many bows I've sinew backed but it's probably more than 50 and maybe closer too 100. Anyhoo, keeping with the primitive nature of things and working within the limits of natural materials, I've gotten away nicely with just greasing bows including the sinew backed ones... After they've been test shot enough to show that there aren't any hidden issues that would need to be dealt with. If you are gonna need a bow in rainy weather, consider using a self bow or a sinew backed bow that has snake skin backing to help prevent sticky sinew. If the sinew gets wet or damp, big deal, let the bow dry out... Sinew was born of water so if it every gets wet, it's not a killer. Something outside of this question though is how to deal with a sinew backing that goes all the way down to the belly on a very short highly stressed sinew backed bow. Because of compression , sinew likes to pull away from the edges if you carry it all the way to the belly, so I started wrapping my Cupid's shaped and Gull Winged Plains bows like this: They have generous tip wraps, and I also apply a thinned rawhide tip wrap to protect the sinew strings. I then put two midlimb wraps on each wrap, along with a center handle wrap. Then, between the wraps I make a nice and even criss cross pattern running down the limbs using long back strap sinew. Effectively, there is no more than 1/4 inch of unreinforced backing without having to fully wrap the bow, and the criss crossing looks way cool especially if the midlimb sinew wraps are covered with bands of scrap snake skin, going all around the bow. Sorry to be so wordy, John
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As a gluten for punishment, I'm not too sure how many bows I've sinew backed but it's probably more than 50 and maybe closer too 100. Anyhoo, keeping with the primitive nature of things and working within the limits of natural materials, I've gotten away nicely with just greasing bows including the sinew backed ones... After they've been test shot enough to show that there aren't any hidden issues that would need to be dealt with. If you are gonna need a bow in rainy weather, consider using a self bow or a sinew backed bow that has snake skin backing to help prevent sticky sinew. If the sinew gets wet or damp, big deal, let the bow dry out... Sinew was born of water so if it every gets wet, it's not a killer. Something outside of this question though is how to deal with a sinew backing that goes all the way down to the belly on a very short highly stressed sinew backed bow. Because of compression , sinew likes to pull away from the edges if you carry it all the way to the belly, so I started wrapping my Cupid's shaped and Gull Winged Plains bows like this: They have generous tip wraps, and I also apply a thinned rawhide tip wrap to protect the sinew strings. I then put two midlimb wraps on each wrap, along with a center handle wrap. Then, between the wraps I make a nice and even criss cross pattern running down the limbs using long back strap sinew. Effectively, there is no more than 1/4 inch of unreinforced backing without having to fully wrap the bow, and the criss crossing looks way cool especially if the midlimb sinew wraps are covered with bands of scrap snake skin, going all around the bow. Sorry to be so wordy, John
Words of wisdom are always welcome in my world.
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If you want to find pitch though for stuff like putting stone points on arrows, it's kind of sketchy, but if you can find globs on fir or spruce trees from pitch mass borers, it's easy to gather bunches. The only thing is that ya have to strain out the bug poo. An easy way to make a good strong mix of goo is to take a tuna can with some kind of handle (I use a pair of vise grips) and stick your glob of pitch in it. To keep it from being brittle add some ground up charcoal from your fire pit. The third thang is a bit of grease. Warm the stuff up and mix it, and test it out by getting a bit and making a ball. When it cools you can see whether to add grease a little at a time. It depends so much on how much of the volatiles left the pitch glob. It's also good for making Australian Woomers (their versions of atlatls) The Aussies would set their spur onto their woomeras with a glob of pitchy stuff.