Primitive Archer

Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: alwayslookin on February 24, 2015, 01:06:08 pm

Title: Osage long bow
Post by: alwayslookin on February 24, 2015, 01:06:08 pm
Hey guys have a slight issue. I've been working down a stave I got from the sidewinder give away. I have it down to bow length and have tillered  it out to a little past brace on the long string.  When I try to pull it back it wants to twist in my hand at first then when the pressure builds it's seems to stop . The string isn't aligned in the middle of the handle it's on the very edge of the side. Also the stave has two inches of natural reflex.
Title: Re: Osage long bow
Post by: bubby on February 24, 2015, 04:04:43 pm
Pics would help
Title: Re: Osage long bow
Post by: alwayslookin on February 24, 2015, 04:47:44 pm
OK here's some pictures. The bow braced fine and doesn't turn when braced. As you can see the string is not aligned. Let me know what you all think. Thanks
Title: Re: Osage long bow
Post by: alwayslookin on February 24, 2015, 04:52:07 pm
Edit it does twist when strung
Title: Re: Osage long bow
Post by: Pat B on February 24, 2015, 05:06:56 pm
I think I'd clamp the stave on the far limb, about 12" out from the handle(see the slight bend there), heat it and bring the outer 2/3 of the limb back just past center, let it cool well and low brace it again to see what you have.
Title: Re: Osage long bow
Post by: bradsmith2010 on February 24, 2015, 05:27:26 pm
what Pat said,, and keep in mind,, when you get it brace a bit higher,, it may have a different string alignment,, so you could adjust when you get there,, sometimes orientating the handle toward the string will solve alot,, its a beautiful stave,, will make a nice bow,, most of the reflexed character staves are a bit fussy at first,, but calm down when tillered out a bit,,  i have a feeling the string will be more in line when it is braced a bit higher,,,,  :)  the way you have it clamped is not really the way the bow will position itself in your hand,, hold it from the string and then look down the bow for alignment,, the bow hanging down will give you a different view,, :)
Title: Re: Osage long bow
Post by: Bryce on February 24, 2015, 06:10:13 pm
Steam the handle, and adjust from there.
Title: Re: Osage long bow
Post by: alwayslookin on February 24, 2015, 10:37:54 pm
OK guys thanks for the help. I will heat her up and see if I can get it closer. I noticed that when I did brace it high it changed a lot actually. At higher brace it didn't bend and the string did come more in line. Never worked a reflexed  stave or a character stave so I'm getting a double wammy  of learning.
Title: Re: Osage long bow
Post by: Parnell on February 24, 2015, 10:55:21 pm
Hope it comes together.  I would take Pat's advice and line that string up.  Keep us posted.
Title: Re: Osage long bow
Post by: Sidewinder on February 25, 2015, 01:05:37 am
Harris you can do it buddy. Pats advise is sound. I think once you get it lined up it will be ok. Was there any prop twist in that one, I don't remember. Its looks like a bow is taking shape, thats for sure.  Danny
Title: Re: Osage long bow
Post by: alwayslookin on February 25, 2015, 09:11:46 am
Thanks danny. Ya there was a little bit but I already heated that out. I did notice about a foot from one end there is some twist too that might be contributing to the issue so I might have to straighten that spot out too. I'm learning a lot from this stave and I think it will be a beauty with a lot of character when I'm done. I just wanna make sure I get the twisting situated before I apply the backing because I'm guessing heating with a backing on isn't a good idea.
Title: Re: Osage long bow
Post by: Pat B on February 25, 2015, 09:41:26 am
I'd get the stave to first low brace first before doing any more adjustments so you can see how the string tracks and how the stave reacts being under tension. You may not have to worry about the slight twists.
 Why are you backing the bow? Unless the back is violated there is no reason to back it, especially with osage.
Title: Re: Osage long bow
Post by: alwayslookin on February 25, 2015, 10:15:29 am
Pat- the reason I'm backing it is because when I was chasing a ring there was one little pin knot that lifted a splinter around it and took a little flake of wood off with it. I just don't want it to break since it will be my first Osage and I don't know when I will get more or any other good staves so I want a shooter since I don't have a decent one .
Title: Re: Osage long bow
Post by: Parnell on February 25, 2015, 10:17:24 am
Yup, short string, asap.  Can you post a picture of where you think you violated the back?  I'm curious...
Title: Re: Osage long bow
Post by: alwayslookin on February 25, 2015, 10:36:42 am
Yup, short string, asap.  Can you post a picture of where you think you violated the back?  I'm curious...
sure thing steve. I will take one when I get home. I'd like to see what you think about it.
Title: Re: Osage long bow
Post by: stickbender on February 25, 2015, 10:47:53 am

     I am not a Bowyer, but if it is not too big, couldn't you just super glue, or epoxy that spot?  Of course a snake skin would be a natural "tuxedo" for that stave. ;)
                                    Wayne
Title: Re: Osage long bow
Post by: alwayslookin on February 25, 2015, 12:13:20 pm
I really don't know this is my first time working this yellow gold. So I don't know what kind of flaw or marks will make the back unsafe and what wont. I will post pics and hopefully the more knowledgeable guys can chime in.
Title: Re: Osage long bow
Post by: Blaflair2 on February 25, 2015, 12:13:43 pm
U could do a tread and super glue wrap if ur confident in the rest of the back. If not back it. I like the looks of some wraps. Do one on the other side to match for cosmetics.
Title: Re: Osage long bow
Post by: Springbuck on February 25, 2015, 02:57:53 pm
  I'm with Pat.  A little correction with heat to line the tips up, THEN if you hate the twist, work on that. A few degrees at a couple places will have that thing wiggling straight.
Title: Re: Osage long bow
Post by: alwayslookin on February 25, 2015, 09:16:51 pm
Here's some pictures of the spots in the back that lifted some extra wood. Most are small gashes on the ring but one is pretty deep in my opinion the one by the hole.
Title: Re: Osage long bow
Post by: Parnell on February 26, 2015, 09:36:09 am
Are those pictures current?  That is, are you bracing the bow with the back looking like that or have you sanded it fully smooth since?  So, next round, you'll want to identify where the pin knots and funny spots are on your stave by making a circle around them with a pencil before you get started.  Chase the ring before cutting out bow dimensions and leave "islands of wood around each troubles spot.  Go slow and easy around them by using a scraper or a knife to slowly remove wood over that pin knot, etc. 

If those pictures are current, do not bend the stave until you have that back as cleaned up as possible.
Title: Re: Osage long bow
Post by: alwayslookin on February 26, 2015, 10:31:33 am
Those are current steve. I haven't bent it much past brace for that reason alone. That is why I planned on backing it. When. U say clean up the back do you mean sanding? I planned on sanding and then applying the rawhide. I can't sand too much more wood off I'm already gonna come in at a low draweight because of lack of wood.
Title: Re: Osage long bow
Post by: rps3 on February 26, 2015, 10:43:14 am
What parnell said. If your back looks like that now, I wouldn't even consider bending it yet, or you are just asking for trouble.
Title: Re: Osage long bow
Post by: alwayslookin on February 26, 2015, 10:47:45 am
On a side note since I have never worked Osage and am new to the whole chasing a ring thing I figured that sanding the back would be bad too.
Title: Re: Osage long bow
Post by: rps3 on February 26, 2015, 11:59:48 am
Get the back nice and smooth, you don't want to leave any areas for gremlins to get in.
Title: Re: Osage long bow
Post by: alwayslookin on February 26, 2015, 04:37:15 pm
Riddle me this guy's if I back the bow with rawhide and then decide I want to chop the tips a bit because the draw weight is too low is that doable with the backing already on it?
Title: Re: Osage long bow
Post by: Blaflair2 on February 26, 2015, 10:21:18 pm
Yes.
Title: Re: Osage long bow
Post by: Sidewinder on February 26, 2015, 10:37:12 pm
No matter what you do, clean up that back some more before you bend it again. Do you have a cabinet scrapper  or old set of scissors you can use as a scrapper? Start with that and then you can hit it with the 200gritt and then burnish it with 00 steel wool. That'll make it smoother than a babies butt. What that does is reduce the chance of a splinter lifting even if you back it. Especially with those knots being prominent. It is a true testiment to osage orange's tension strength  when the back looks that rough and you can brace it without it lifting a splinter. Another point is when your chasing a ring, having the light in the right place helps to see the seperation between the early/chaulky layer and the more solid late growth layer. Tight rings can be a challenge but having good light will help you see the single ring to chase.
Title: Re: Osage long bow
Post by: alwayslookin on March 03, 2015, 07:45:22 pm
OK guys I've been busy working on this stave and I did it again. It came in way low of draw weight in my defense didn't have a lot of wood to work with unfortunately but it is what it is. First off let me know what you guys think about my tiller thus far. The bow is super cool looking I just wish it came out at a hunting weight. Second what should I do to possibly increase the draw weight. It's 62 inches ntn. I thought about chopping the tips, sinew maybe some flipped tips just wondering what you guys think my best course of action would be. It seems like it shoots real nice. I also cleaned up the back real nice and i didnt really violate the back like i had originally thought. So i think I will leave it unbacked  unless of course I sinew it. Constructive criticism welcome.
Title: Re: Osage long bow
Post by: JoJoDapyro on March 03, 2015, 08:12:02 pm
How low is low?
Title: Re: Osage long bow
Post by: Stringman on March 03, 2015, 08:18:20 pm
Looking pretty good. A little flat on the right inner third.
Title: Re: Osage long bow
Post by: alwayslookin on March 03, 2015, 08:48:01 pm
How low is low?
20 lbs unfortunately
Title: Re: Osage long bow
Post by: alwayslookin on March 03, 2015, 08:51:04 pm
Looking pretty good. A little flat on the right inner third.
ya I tell you what I can't get that side to bend right there. It's got a weird wavy area that is really hard to tiller. It looked almost spot on in person but I see it in the picture. I scraped that spot so many times and it just would never get right I was thinking maybe it was the hump in the wood that makes it look weird but I could be wrong I am a newb. Thanks for the response stringman
Title: Re: Osage long bow
Post by: Parnell on March 03, 2015, 10:41:07 pm
That is looking pretty good!   Too bad about the weight, but its all part of learning.  With Osage you can push the wood.  You could shorten the bow and pick up some weight.  For a 28" draw, doubling the length is reasonable...56" between nocks is definitely possible with bend through the handle, maybe more.  If you were to pike it you could pick up 10# or so, or turn it into a true shorty and sinew back to get up to hunting weight.  There are options...
Title: Re: Osage long bow
Post by: alwayslookin on March 04, 2015, 12:57:42 am
That is looking pretty good!   Too bad about the weight, but its all part of learning.  With Osage you can push the wood.  You could shorten the bow and pick up some weight.  For a 28" draw, doubling the length is reasonable...56" between nocks is definitely possible with bend through the handle, maybe more.  If you were to pike it you could pick up 10# or so, or turn it into a true shorty and sinew back to get up to hunting weight.  There are options...
glad you chimed in Steve. I think I will try piking it and see where I stand and go from there.