Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: PEARL DRUMS on February 23, 2015, 09:01:17 pm
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Here is a brief explanation of my method of steam bending static recurve's. First off, I prefer to have at least the portion Im bending to be at one clean ring on the belly and all edges very rounded and smooth. I also prefer both limbs to be on the same ring in that portion, which means they are very close in thickness as well. This way the same steam time and clamp time yield a perfect match tip to tip. If one is thicker than the other, it will not take the same shape. I also prefer to have the bow nicely floor tillered and very close to bracing before I add the statics. Its easier to do a bit of scraping afterwards and then simply short brace the bow as opposed to starting at floor tiller. Besides, its not good to wrench the statics into the ground/floor during the floor tiller stage. My jig is simple as is my "rig" to make steam as you can see. I steamed these while the tips where barely 1" wide by a heavy 1/2" thick. they stayed under the hood for 30 minutes. I don't have a pic of the tin foil hood, but that's quite simple to imagine. A slow rolling boil is perfect. 2" of water is more than enough. No cracks on either bend, not even a wrinkle on the back. Just be sure to be ready with the jig and clamps, and move swift, make the bend with force but controlled and evenly. The wood will bend right over nicely most often. Cracks and tears happen. I got lucky on this one.
PS - See that little square of paper towel between the bow and pot handle? You need that. That's what keeps the wife off your butt. Without it, yellow water drips down the belly and right unto the stove/counter. BOOM last time you use the kitchen............for a while anyway... ;)
Hope this helps somebody
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Dang. Those pics kinda tell most of the story, and I am sure I could figure out the rest if only I could read!.
Squirrel Bums is one of the best limb-hookers around!
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Jdub that is EXACTLY what I was hoping for. The pics show exactly how simple it is. It shouldn't be intimidating.
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Thanks for sharing PD. Your a wealth of knowledge and great at dispersing that knowledge.
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Thanks PD . Just what I needed to see. Now I got to make a static . Lol .or try anyhow. Thanks.
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PD, great description and inspiring........I'm going to have to try this soon.
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Great how-to! Ive always used dry heat but im startin to think maybe im cheatin myself and workin to hard at it cuz that makes it look super easy. What do you coat the wood with before steaming?... Brian
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Air!
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Air!
Lol.
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No varnish, shellac, oil??..... Your off the chain man!!! Lol... Brian
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You know Pearlie, one day your beginners luck is going to run out. And that little piece of paper towel is going to let you down too.
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Air!
Do you used the canned stuff like you get for blowing the dust out of keyboards? Or do you make your own? I make my own, but it stinks.
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Dang it man, your a couple days to late with this. I bent some statics into a bl last week and they didn't come out that nice. OK, next time at the risk of damaging my marriage I'm gonna sneak into the kitchen and try your method.
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Same great info i got from pearl a few years ago, only differance is i bought a hot plate and stay out of the kitchen , don't ask why but you know the mantra happy wife happy life ;)
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That is why I bought my heat source as well. >:D my wife is way too good for me, I can't push it.
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Nice Kitchen. I really like the cabinets. Did you do that with a board or a stave? :o ;D
Cool demo. very helpful. those statics are sweet!
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Chris, u can send me that bow for closer inspection >:D
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Nice job on the tutorial Pearlie. Good pics. I have a hard time getting steady pics when I'm weaving from indulging in a tad bit of ale. Danny
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Is that top wedge by any chance, part of that red cedar bow that blew? ???
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Nice hooks. :) :) Pappy
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Good pics... I've take note of the one ring on the belly tip too :)
Del
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Nice Kitchen. I really like the cabinets. Did you do that with a board or a stave? :o ;D
Cool demo. very helpful. those statics are sweet!
Stave, I wouldn't try to bend a board, no matter its grain. Some things are meant to bend at 90 degrees and some aren't.
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Is that top wedge by any chance, part of that red cedar bow that blew? ???
Good eye man! I grabbed it out of my junk drum for a quick spacer.
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Good lesson. Have you ever done anything similar with black locust? Do you know how it steam bends?
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Air!
Do you used the canned stuff like you get for blowing the dust out of keyboards? Or do you make your own? I make my own, but it stinks.
Haaa haa! Crazy guy, that JDub. :laugh:
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Good lesson. Have you ever done anything similar with black locust? Do you know how it steam bends?
Ive bent black locust, elm, osage and yew just the same buddy man.
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Cool!
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Without any sealer, do you not have problems with checking as it dries?
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You must be a marathon runner to be able to get from the kitchen to your workshop before the wood cools :)
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Without any sealer, do you not have problems with checking as it dries?
No sir. I use sealer when the bow is done, never prior.
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You must be a marathon runner to be able to get from the kitchen to your workshop before the wood cools :)
I use to run cross country, 30 years ago ;). I just keep the basement door and my shop door open with all tools ready to go. Its a seamless dash from stove to shop, I can get under 10 seconds if I hustle. I told my kid last night that Id have the fastest 40 yard time at the NFL combine this week if they timed me!
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Nice build along, Pearlie. I've always used dry heat for bending but I think my next recurve with be bent with steam, especially big hooks like you showed.
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You must be a marathon runner to be able to get from the kitchen to your workshop before the wood cools :)
I use to run cross country, 30 years ago ;). I just keep the basement door and my shop door open with all tools ready to go. Its a seamless dash from stove to shop, I can get under 10 seconds if I hustle. I told my kid last night that Id have the fastest 40 yard time at the NFL combine this week if they timed me!
Be better off to just buy a cheap hotplate and do it all in your shop, it will make your wife happy ;)
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But its the only time we see each other Marc...;) ?
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I'm surprised your wife hasn't bought you a stove for your shop already:)
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Nice Kitchen. I really like the cabinets. Did you do that with a board or a stave? :o ;D
Cool demo. very helpful. those statics are sweet!
Stave, I wouldn't try to bend a board, no matter its grain. Some things are meant to bend at 90 degrees and somewhere aren't.
I've bent statics in boards no problem ... :P
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Im sure you have stud.
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Tea sprayer, JWH. Thanks for the info. PD. KISS all the way for me and that is one for the books.
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Nice Kitchen. I really like the cabinets. Did you do that with a board or a stave? :o ;D
Cool demo. very helpful. those statics are sweet!
Stave, I wouldn't try to bend a board, no matter its grain. Some things are meant to bend at 90 degrees and some aren't.
I actually really was referring to the cabinets. :laugh:
I've bent boards before but to your point so far not to 90 degrees. Will have to do that next.
Really nice looking statics on that for sure. Thanks for posting this. I never get tired of this kind of tutorial. This is really making it nice and simple!
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Thanks for makin it look easy chris. I need to give one of those a shot some time.
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I have been leaning more toward steam over dry heat for the sharper statics, I don't seem to get as smooth of a bend with dry heat unless i just get lucky.
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Thanks for the bend-along PD, I do it the same way pretty much but mine don't come out as purdy as yours. Just built myself a real jig like the one you have though. My wife lets me use the stove because I'm usually the one cleaning up anyways!
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Nice steaming rig, PD. The first thing that caught my eye was the beautiful cabinets.
Jawge
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Thanks Jawgey. My bro in law made those as well as built the house. He is good at the "square" stuff!
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Let's see your pink apron, Pearly Boy:)
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PD, my dad was a carpenter. Helped on a few cabinets. Caught my eye immediately.
Keep your bro in law supplied with bows. LOL.
You are both talented.
Jawge
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This is almost exactly my set up, except I once rescued a weird, tall, skinny pot, and I boil em.
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Thanks to some extreme peer pressure from my buddies Ginger Snap and Dragster, Ill be attempting a Grumley bow. Nel's lived not far from me, just in a different era. Being a fellow Michigander I owe it to him to build one. Ive never attempted a brush nock. The bracing is my only concern. I don't like wrestling with bows. Here is where Im at.
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Looks good, you gonna make this a build along PD?
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What could possibly go wrong???
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Falcon maybe not a build along, but I will post the random rambling and a picture.
Steve the only thing Im hesitant about is the giant string loop on one end and trying to fight it over the tip to brace it. Im going to skinny these up as much as possible and make them as petite as possible, but still functional.
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Just go with an over the tip stringing technique and keep the loops small. I loved my Grumley replica while it was still alive.
(http://i399.photobucket.com/albums/pp78/pat_05/CIMG5142.jpg)
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Hey, that's a great idea! I love me some string bridges anyway, and that already has the perfect curve.
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Cant wait to see the finished product...those were the sexiest bows ever made!... Brian
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Pat Im not sure I follow you. Are you saying use a stringer and slip it over the end rather than slide it up the limb and over the knock?
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I just used the step through method and slipped the loop over the tip. Going up the limb would be an exercise in frustration.
I've never used a stringer so I can't comment on how that would work on tips like that.
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Falcon maybe not a build along, but I will post the random rambling and a picture.
Steve the only thing Im hesitant about is the giant string loop on one end and trying to fight it over the tip to brace it. Im going to skinny these up as much as possible and make them as petite as possible, but still functional.
I was kidding, everytime I think what could possibly go wrong something does.
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Ahhhhh. Id hate to mess up a perfectly good static trying to do this. If it happens it happens!
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I don't think I could have made that cut and had everything line up, or did you get close to the line then rasp it down?
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Bobert I just traced each static unto an osage plank and numbered them 1 and 2. Then changed my blade out to a 1/4" 10 tpi and cut it. That's off the saw you see in the pic. There are some micro air gaps I can see, and I don't like it. I need to tweak it so its absolutely dark from end to end when I hold it up to my lights. I want them perfect for the Unibond, gap filling epoxy or not!
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One end is fitted and glued with Uni-bond. You can see by comparing this picture to the last I've changed its shape and location up a good bit. I think I can see what I'm looking for now. I'll wait a few hours and let the work lamps work. Leaving it clamped I'll flip it end for end and start the other fitting. So far so good.
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That location looks alot better pd
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I had intentions of snipping off the left over limb in the other pic. But thinking about it more and moving it around on the limb, I decided to slide it up the radius higher and taper right off the original tip.
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I think the short side of your triangle of wood would be better situated at an angle closer to that formed by the bar of your clamp. That gives you more room to form the brush groove in a favorable spot.
Hard to really see that until you get to brace height and see how everything is going to sit but I think you'll wish you had a bit more bulk further up the curve to work with.
http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=Grumley+tip&FORM=HDRSC2#view=detail&id=BF8D4C5341BE26DF91F8285F6419F00486463B4F&selectedIndex=49
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Perhaps. That picture is a bit deceiving though. I may be cutting it close, but I think it'll work out fine. I drew my desired finished shape on them and it looks good per how I imagine the tips laying at brace.
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He seems to have made them different every time, perhaps to match the given bow. Some are long and high and other are short and short. These are just a few examples.
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Those are his two styles though. The shorter one is the bush bow and the other the Deerslayer model. The Deesrlayer style is a little more demanding of precision in having enough material to form the brush deflecting part effectively.
If you've sketched it out and visualized brace height correctly is should be OK.
My first try I over finessed the shaping and at correct brace height the string was floating off the groove by just a hair. ::)
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OOOOOHHH! Bug you every time you looked at it? I know it would me. That stuff just glares in my eyes on MY bows. Thanks for bringing that up. One less thing I have to learn the hard way and one more thing I can tell somebody else.
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I've always liked those brush nock tips for looks and the way they keep you from snagging brambles and twigs. Looks like your on your way, good luck.
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OOOOOHHH! Bug you every time you looked at it? I know it would me. That stuff just glares in my eyes on MY bows. Thanks for bringing that up. One less thing I have to learn the hard way and one more thing I can tell somebody else.
I just ground the corner off and added a piece and then re-shaped it.
(http://i399.photobucket.com/albums/pp78/pat_05/CIMG5139-1.jpg)
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Lookin' good so far Bud ! Bob
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Pat here is a pic from a few years ago, same form used and same length bow. I think they may work out fine.
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Those are very beautiful. Nice work Pearly. I'll continue watching for sure :)
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What is the radius of those hooks?
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Quart paint can A-a-ron.
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I wanna know how you got the overlay matched so perfectly. Even with a good form, I always get some springback, or the limb isn't perfectly flat laterally.
I admit, I don't measure and mark stuff enough.....
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II will rasp it flat or, in this case the two materials are thin enough and flexible enough to match the bow curvature.
Im an eyeballer myself. After layout I don't use my ruler much.
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Quart paint can A-a-ron.
ha, I saw that video just the other day
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Glad you caught that! Its a funny skit.
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Thanks for doin this Chris, one of these is on my to-do list
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Following this in real time. Flipped the tips of a hackberry bow with dry heat yesterday and I'll be gluing on brush nocks when I get home.
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Put some pics up Dave. Id like to see how your doing it as well.
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Nice hooks! looking good with the brush nocks so far. 8)
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This is so close to being ineffective it bothers me. PatM may have been right, that bothers me even more.. >:D I have one tip done except for the string groove, and the limb is ready to low brace. Time to do the other and pop a string on. I have a feeling Ill be adding another chunk of wood on and extending it farther around the radius. Find out later today.
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Wow, that was decieving...i thought you had plenty of material.... Brian
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O:)
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Got it low braced at about 3" It looks so dang close right now. A lot depends on what brace height the bow tunes at. Lower the better for the bridges, higher the better for the design. Talk about being in a round corner. Ill take a pic or two in a bit. I was rockin' in the free world all morning and killed my phone battery. :)
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The worst situation is when the string comes off the bridge and then comes close to the recurved portion at brace. You then end up with a nice snap-in feature for actually really catching brush.
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Im with you there Pat. Im doing my best to avoid that. I took no more than .030" of wood from the back end's height. Worse case, I add a 1/2" high slat on top that slightly over hangs. That would be easy enough I suppose.
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Cool beans! I might have to try a Grumley style some day. Josh
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rockin' is good.
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This pic shows the tip at a brace of 5 3/4". Pretty dang close to where it will be, within a 1/2" anyway. Id say it'll work just fine.
I have it tillered out to 55 @ 26. The string alignment is dead straight and the string doesn't even think about hopping the groove. If the wood itself holds strong I should be flinging arrows shortly. I have some checks Im watching.
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I added piano key ivory as overlays. Its very, very thin. I believe Clint salvaged it off an old piano he found. I didn't want anything heavier, but I wanted something to keep the wood from splintering or flaking. So far it looks at seems to work fine. Hopefully it doesn't crack or split on me!
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Ha! Nice save. You're going to be starting the sanding process with 1500 grit to hang onto every molecule of underlay though. ;D
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Looking good Pearl Grums. The ivory was from a civil war era Steinway piano.
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How are you stringing it Chris?
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How are you stringing it Chris?
My least favorite and only way to make it happen, through my legs.
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I got it high 50's @ 28" now. Shot it a few dozen times to settle it in. Feels good. Little extra thump, but not bad. Statics have the coolest feel to them, its all their own.
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Now just slap a little baler twine on the back and you can liven it right up.
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Looking good, is there a noticeable difference in hand shock with that added weight out on the tips like that compared to one of your normal statics?
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Slightly Aaron, but I have tip width to give yet. If you could imagine a tip overlay, it really isn't much more weight at all. Just placed on the belly rather.
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Put some pics up Dave. Id like to see how your doing it as well.
Here's a few. I didn't recurve nearly as much so it'll be closer to the Bushmaster like in the first picture. I'm trying to make it as Grumley-esque as possible. Traced the limb onto a scrap piece of leopardwood and shaped it on the belt sander. I was having trouble getting a perfect matchup so a thin maple lam is put in there as well to spread out the glue line. The glue is Smooth-On and I'm using the toothpick method to keep everything in line.
(http://i.imgur.com/UJgw81L.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/RPLn6Fu.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/5rupZNX.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/ZFh6GXo.jpg)
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You left a much more appropriate angle on the high side than I did. Mine worked fine, but I should have bumped it down the radius a bit farther, say a 1/2" or so. Yours has more than enough wiggle room to shape it. Should be perfect, that maple will look nice and bright in the stack! Thanks for posting pics.
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Looks good...
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So far, so good!
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Lookin' good there pearl Onions.
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I scaled it. Its 61 @ 28. I sure like the performance, but I don't know if I can get good enough with a bow this heavy. My Bowyers Flinch is a challenge for me with a 50# bow. I may sand 2-4# off. Ill try to finish it off this week and post some more pictures in a new thread.
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it is beautiful... i am jealous of your woodworking/bowmaking skills...
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Chris, if anyone should know not to over bow yourself it should be you. I thought you went down that road and were on your way to a full recovery! ;D Looking really nice, if the tip is anything to go on. ;)
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Chris, if anyone should know not to over bow yourself it should be you. I thought you went down that road and were on your way to a full recovery! ;D Looking really nice, if the tip is anything to go on. ;)
I personally heard him say at my house many times anything above 55 he is just not accurate with. I say go with it and my money's on this will be the first of many excuses from him at marshall 2015. No excuses
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I'm liking that Chris. OVER-bowed?
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I knocked it down to 55#. It's much better and easier to shoot.
No excuses!
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Full Draw? ???
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waiting for finished pics ;)
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Sweet!... Brian
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Full Draw? ???
Soon! The top is stiff in the middle and bottom fade is weak, but other than that I think I got it. Im going to leave it..;)
Its sanded and smooth and shot 100 times. I didnt want to post anymore pics until Its complete. Ill have it done this week.
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I knocked it down to 55#. It's much better and easier to shoot.
No excuses!
No such thing as bowyers flinch when you're in hunting mode and a big old muley buck is in front of you - you'll be fine!
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I'm quite amazed by the apparent nonchalance with which you pull this off, reflecting tons of experience (and broken bows, I guess). Great work, great to see the progress and drawbacks step by step. Thanks for sharing!
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Not too many broken bows Joachim, but a huge amount of experience squeezed into a very short time frame with a very supportive wife behind me the whole time. Not just anybody can spend 2 straight years in a bow shop without creating an irate wife!
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Looking forward to seeing this Chris. Half tempted to consider it on the Elm I've got going.
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Could your wife call mine and coach her a little bit? ?
Please? Lol
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Paco the trick is to have them mad at you daily, its a free pass to spend every night in the shop. Of course we all know the repercussions of an angry wife, gets cooooold at night ;)
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<snip>...Of course we all know the repercussions of an angry wife, gets cooooold at night ;)
...as long as you keep a ready supply of shattered ERC splinters handy, kindling a little fire to warm things up should be no problem though. ;D >:D ::)
OneBow
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Paco the trick is to have them mad at you daily, its a free pass to spend every night in the shop. Of course we all know the repercussions of an angry wife, gets cooooold at night ;)
lol. .. she's Cuban. .. she was born angry... *(looking nervously over shoulder)
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<snip>...Of course we all know the repercussions of an angry wife, gets cooooold at night ;)
...as long as you keep a ready supply of shattered ERC splinters handy, kindling a little fire to warm things up should be no problem though. ;D >:D ::)
OneBow
Bahahahah!! Good one. Got you good Pearlie Boy!! ;D ;D ;D
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You did the right thing going Grumley!
That said, pics or it didn't happen... ;)
-Dan
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Honeymoon is over gents, I have shot the bow a good bit at 60# and 55#. Last night the tiniest of tiny splinters made a noise, but didnt pop up. I stopped on the dime and added some primo rawhide Pat gave me.
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Any idea where?
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About mid limb on the bottom.
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Glad you caught it pearly, too pretty to die
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Bub I think it will be a better bow for it. Truth be told? I was just telling Drew the other day I wanted to add rawhide because the few Ive seen in hand made by Nel's, had rawhide. I guess my decision was made for me!
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The rawhide was pretty much standard it seems. I doubt Ol' Nels popped splinters first though. >:D
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I doubt it Pat! But, something tells me this style was born of static forming splinters!
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I hope it holds together for you.
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Bummer, but its for the better of things...hopefully
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Yah, its so minute. I could still pull it back to 28" with only a faint tick sound. Im sure its a better bow for it. And, my Bowyers Flinch might subside knowing the rawhide is back there.
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Yeah like others said, hope it holds for ya. Can't wait to see final pics :)
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Good on ya, PD. Glad it worked for you. Jawge
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ah...that's what it is called..."Bowyer's flinch"
lol...mine's terrible..lol
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I'm sure it will work out Chris. Its osage for Pete's sake!
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The rawhide was pretty much standard it seems. I doubt Ol' Nels popped splinters first though. >:D
It might have on the first one and been the reason it was "pretty much standard". Anyway, Nel's might have thought it was too pretty to take a chance. :)
Look's darn good, drummer boy.