Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Radon on January 22, 2008, 08:03:44 am
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Hi all,
I manged to get hold of an Osage stave. But since I never worked with osage yet I have a question about the stave:
(http://www.fletchers-corner.de/cpg/albums/userpics/14433/normal_IMG_0187.jpg)
(http://www.fletchers-corner.de/cpg/albums/userpics/14433/normal_IMG_0190.jpg)
How would you guys judge the quality of the stave (66" long)
The outer rings of the stave are very narrow.
The aimed weight sould be something around 50# @ 29"
What would you do?
Would you build a bow as selfbow or bamboo backed?
Thanks for any tips!
Radon
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You might post some pictures of the stave...
If there are thicker rings deeper in the stave you might chase the grain to one of those rings if the stave allows that and still get a bow from it.
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Hi Greg,
I can post some more pics of the stave tomorrow. It is fairly straight without knots or irregularities.
I think chasing the thicker rings will not leave enough wood for a bow.
Radon
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If your confident in your ring chasing, that will make a fine bow. The early to late ratio is kind of high so make it a bit wider than normal. You also may want to consider a sinew or raw hide backing, just to be safe.
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From what I see I would probably pop a belly split off it at about 3/4 to 1 inch down from the sap wood and go from there.The top several look plenty good to chase and the bottom few are OK also. You only need about 2 inches thick once you get to the growth ring you want. :)You might even get 2.Looks like if I am reading the rule right it is 6 1/2 or so thick not including the sap wood.
Pappy
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Hi again,
sorry, but obviously I made the mistake to une a metric ruler! So it doesn't show inches but centimeters.
The stave is about 2 1/2 inch thick (incl. sapwood)
I'll post new photos tomorrow.
Radon
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That being the case I would strip the wood and sap wood as easy as possible and try and hit the first upper ring I could.Man it looked thicker than that ,my mistake.Should be doable tho. :)
Pappy
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Not your mistake Pappy!
The ruler I used has one side metric and the other imperial. I just showed the wrong side.
Anyway, thanks a lot for your answer.
What do you think about 29" draw length with only 66" length of the bow?
Radon
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That would probably work under normal cases,you might want to back it like Ryan said at least with rawhide,you could make it bend a little throught the handle and then it would be ok.It ant the
best piece of wood I have seen ,but by far not the worst.The upper rings look pretty good from what I can tell. :)
Pappy
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66" and a 29" draw is somewhat of a challenge but certainly one that you can do. If you went for a bendy handle bow it would be easy.
Looks like the outer wood has a nice dark orange color indicative of a decent summer/spring growth ratio. The stuff in the middle doesn't look so hot (light yellow, lots of spongey spring wood). You don't want that for your belly. I would lay the bow out along the left side (the thicker side) and go a full 1.5" wide if possible. For a 29" draw that will make your limb fairly thin, I think you will stay within the good orange wood that way. That is important, if your belly winds up in that spongy yellow wood you are going to see a lot of set when you tiller the bow.
The wood on the inner part of the limb looks good too. You might consider splitting like Pappy suggested, and planning on gluing on a handle piece to make the needed weight. It would be chancey though.
The fact that the growth rings are so thin, would make me lean towards using sinew on the back. Not a heavy layer, just a thin layer for protection. then you don't have to stress over chasing a ring. I would certainly just remove the sapwood and not get down into the orange too far, because you only have less than 2cm and you need most of this so your belly wood still falls within this better wood as stated above.
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Yeah, I think I'd take the sapwood off and use the outermost heartwood ring as the bow's back. Make it as wide at the fades as the stave will allow, and back it with rawhide, a piece of cloth or sinew (in that order of preference, with rawhide first and sinew last).
I only put sinew last because it takes a long time and can be costly to get, and for a longer bow I don't think it would help with performance much, it would just offer an insurance policy. You can get the same insurance policy with rawhide or cloth and spend much less time and money on it.
Best of luck, and make sure you show us what it looks like when it's done!
-Eric
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Thanks again for all those helpful answers!
So I will probably go for a 66" bow, 1 1/2" wide, with slight recurves (maybe) rigid handle and rawhide backing.
As for the draw length I will stick to 28" with a draw weight of around 50#
I'll keep you updated but be patient, it will take some time ::)
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I think you will be fine with that. :)
Pappy
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Somebody told me, that smaller rings in osagestaves make faster shooters, thicker slower ones. What do you think about? Its not easy to dig this out, I think, because every stave has its own life.
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I thought I'll give you a quick update on my Osage stave:
This morning I finnished working out the first usable ring.
Even the rings are very thin it was much easier than with all the wood I used up to now.
The only thing that made me wonder was that about half way along the bow, within my ring the heartwood suddenly changed to sapwood. So I had to remove one more ring. Now It looks very good. The wood being much darker than I expected.
More updates will follow if you guys are interested
(and questions too for sure)
Thanks for your help
Stefan
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Very interested,I like tight rings better in most cases they seem to be denser and
stabilize quicker.Easier for ME to hit weight also. :)
Pappy
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Definitely keep us posted, that is an interesting piece of hedge you have. Pics now and then would be great too.
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Thanks for being interested!
Another question came up to me:
I'm planning to do a rawhide backin and have a niche piece of goat rawskin (about 1mm / 1/25" thick) at home. You think this will do?
I never heared of people using goathide.
Thanks
Stefan
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I'm sure it would work. The key to rawhide is having it thin enough, and I think goatskin is naturally fairly thin. I have a goatskin leather coat and it is a nice, thin soft leather.
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So there are a few more photos:
after working out a ring, I started drawing the bows outline.
(http://www.fletchers-corner.de/cpg/albums/userpics/14433/normal_IMG_2059.jpg)
For the centereline I use a laserruler (not primitive but very effective >:D)
(http://www.fletchers-corner.de/cpg/albums/userpics/14433/normal_IMG_2060.jpg)
The outline (but hardly visible on the photo)
(http://www.fletchers-corner.de/cpg/albums/userpics/14433/normal_IMG_2061.jpg)
I started working out the form of the bow.
Unfortunately the wood seems not to be completely dry yet since it is still loosing some weight.
So it might take even longer before I can start floortillering.
Greetings
Stefan
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The only problem with laying out a center line like that with Osage is the longitudinal grain is not usually straight.I lay mine out by eye,carefully following the grain.If you violate that grainmuch it will pop up a splinter at that point,not sure rawhide would hold it down.If you get it in the right
light you can see it running the length of the stave.Just follow it the way the grain runs. :)
Pappy
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Hi Pappy,
I guess I'm lucky with that stave. The grain runs very straight. I have another stave on which I will have to draw the center line by eye but on this one the laser method works well.
Stefan
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Goat-rawhide works very well as a backing.
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Hej all,
First of all I'd like to say thank you again for your help.
Here's the result:
(http://www.messerforum.net/fotoalbum/data/1014/medium/O10.jpg)
(http://www.messerforum.net/fotoalbum/data/1014/medium/O15.jpg)
(http://www.messerforum.net/fotoalbum/data/1014/medium/O18.jpg)
(http://www.messerforum.net/fotoalbum/data/1014/medium/O13.jpg)
(http://www.messerforum.net/fotoalbum/data/1014/medium/O6.jpg)
(http://www.messerforum.net/fotoalbum/data/1014/medium/O5.jpg)
(http://www.messerforum.net/fotoalbum/data/1014/medium/O2.jpg)
(http://www.messerforum.net/fotoalbum/data/1014/medium/O3.jpg)
The bow turned out to be 66" n/n, approx. 60#@28"
I backed it with goat rawhide, the nocks are Waterbuffallo.
The little artworks are rough copys of a spanish cavedrawings.
Since this is only my second osage bow I'm very much looking forward to your feedback.
Radon
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Wow thats a beauty Radon :) She came out really nice, well done.
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Beautiful! The tiller looks good, the tips are exceptional the art work is fitting and very nice and it looks like spring has sprung with the violets blooming. ;) Very nice bow. Pat
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...and it looks like spring has sprung with the violets blooming. ...
Thank god it finally has.
We still had some snow beginning of april and lots of rain and crab weather since. But this weekend will be beautiful and warm.
Radon
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Wow, that turned out great. Beautiful bow.
John
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that is a very nice bow. i like your art work too ;D but the tips are awesome.
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Danke Marius ;D
Thanks for all the compliments. However, I'm surprised that you find the tips so "exceptional". They look pretty ordinary to me. I just dont like "humpback-style" overlays. Everything about a bow has to be very organic with as little edges as possible. The overlays have to "melt" into the limbs in a most fluid style.
Radon
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The tips did it for me. Very nice bow. We'll look at it soon for April Self BOM.
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Great looking bow with an excellent tiller. Jawge
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Very nice. You did an excellent job on that bow.
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Very nice radon. I agree completely "the overlays have to melt into the limbs" (exactly) great job (melting) ;) Keenan
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Radon, You should be very proud of your work. Those tips are look great!
Rich
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hey radon! - the whole thing looks COOOOOOOOOOL!! but man, these tips are really something! as you say: organic...that's the word that fits!
that's a serious BOM competitor!!!
frank
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Very good looking bow...if only your second bow, definitely looking forward to seeing more from you in the future. Those tips are very nice! :)
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WHAT!!!???? - your 2nd bow!?!?! ....... UNBELIEVABLE !!!
that would be a great bow if it was the 20th, i'd say!
frank
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Darn, that was quick. I only found this post this morning and your'e already finished ;D. Very fine looking osage bow!
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Great looking bow. I like the artwork on the back, too.
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Very good looking bow...if only your second bow, definitely looking forward to seeing more from you in the future. Those tips are very nice! :)
Not my second bow. My second osage bow.
I build four or five bows from other wood before.
Radon