Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: paco664 on February 14, 2015, 01:15:21 pm
-
Greetings from Hialeah FL *(miami).
i have enjoyed shooting bows since i was a child. i'm 46 now, and have decided after seeing the beautiful work you guys have done to make myself a board bow.
i went to the local wood store *(shell lumber) and picked up a pretty piece of white oak and i'm gonna carve a bow out if come heck or high water.
my question is about backing. i wanted to use sinew but couldn't find any here so i used drywall tape for this first attempt. i think it will turn out fine but it's a bit UGLY :-\
http://www.google.com/aclk?sa=l&ai=CuBKU04TfVNKEFJK2hATAy4GYA-vT8uAGu8u5pIgBo93OlrECCAkQASDezc8eKB5gydash9yjxBCgAYPgru8DyAEHqgQnT9Aw5oAOhuqx_LJyVPRs9vC5GsWOUIVwFDsyg7bnyErAVI-ylj9uwAUFoAYmgAfln9EQkAcBqAemvhvYBwHgEuuP15PQiaecvwE&sig=AOD64_3XCtzboVYv1PJtVc9lmp7xkpWjQA&adurl=http://www.ecanyons.com/india-sinew-natural-gray-colored-70lb-8oz-300-yard-spool-p-1681.html%3Fcpid%3Dgdf100%26prod%3D1681&ctype=5&rct=j&q=&ei=04TfVOqNEdaSsQSu14L4BA&ved=0CHYQpyswAAy. (http://www.google.com/aclk?sa=l&ai=CuBKU04TfVNKEFJK2hATAy4GYA-vT8uAGu8u5pIgBo93OlrECCAkQASDezc8eKB5gydash9yjxBCgAYPgru8DyAEHqgQnT9Aw5oAOhuqx_LJyVPRs9vC5GsWOUIVwFDsyg7bnyErAVI-ylj9uwAUFoAYmgAfln9EQkAcBqAemvhvYBwHgEuuP15PQiaecvwE&sig=AOD64_3XCtzboVYv1PJtVc9lmp7xkpWjQA&adurl=http://www.ecanyons.com/india-sinew-natural-gray-colored-70lb-8oz-300-yard-spool-p-1681.html%3Fcpid%3Dgdf100%26prod%3D1681&ctype=5&rct=j&q=&ei=04TfVOqNEdaSsQSu14L4BA&ved=0CHYQpyswAAy.)
will this sinew here be adequate for my next attempt?
-
Save your sinew for a stave. I have backed boards with denim, seems to work well.
-
Why back it at all?
-
Why back it at all?
If the grain runs straight end to end it doesn`t need a backing.
I`ve used brown paper bags for backing. Works great.
-
i backed it because i wasn't sure and being the first bow i have made since i was a kid i am trying to do everything i can not to have it blow up in my face. lol.
it is 72" and i am hoping when all is said and done to be ~55-60#@70" with a 29-30" draw.
but IF i can get my drawlength out of it without a face full of splinters i will take whatever #age it makes. be it 40 or be it 100.
and if i end up with kindling wood out of it. i guess i'll have to take slcwmnbma *(la cubanita who must not be made angry) on a camping trip.
thanks for any suggestions. you guys wealth of knowledge is incredible.
-
also the grain is very very straight.
i guess the backing wasn't needed.
-
The disadvange to backing is the lost of a bit of arrow velocity and maybe a bit more hand shock if the tiller isn't correct. You very likely won't notice either. Twas wise of you to go with a 72" with your longish draw.
c.d.
-
Artificial sinew does not work well as a backing material... certainly nothing like real sinew.
-
My firs is red oak. 70" tip to tip. Unbacked. My handle did pop and break, but the bow is still shooting. 54# @ 27"
-
welcome paco ! Funny, I had to double check to see who's post I was reading, yours or mine (From a month or two ago!)
We have eerily similar story's. I have made a few, but only 2 that survived >:D
When Im building bows,I don't concentrate on the finished product, concentrate on your work and the skills you gain.
If the bow fails your still enjoying yourself ;D I think I broke about 3 bows, but I learned something from every failure.
And I keep repeating, you aint makin if you aint breakin...
By the way, the two that lived are both unbacked white oak ...
-
Artificial sinew does not work well as a backing material... certainly nothing like real sinew.
noted on the artificial sinew. that stuff in the link is supposedly natural sinew on a spool.
i bought a farriers rasp today at tractor supply over in Naples fl *(went to visit the family) and tomorrow before work i am gonna see about making a big pile of wood shavings.
one thing about the backing of drywall tape and titebond II, it's ugly as homemade soap and i wish i could remove it.
now i have to find some Dacron and see if i remember how to twist a string *(if not i will see about a store bought one till i get by brain filled back up)
thank you guys for the suggestions and well wishes *(gotta feeling y'all gonna be seeing a lot of me)
-
Good luck paco. Thanks for taking us along. Send some pics when you can.
-
Artificial sinew does not work well as a backing material... certainly nothing like real sinew.
noted on the artificial sinew. that stuff in the link is supposedly natural sinew on a spool.
i bought a farriers rasp today at tractor supply over in Naples fl *(went to visit the family) and tomorrow before work i am gonna see about making a big pile of wood shavings.
one thing about the backing of drywall tape and titebond II, it's ugly as homemade soap and i wish i could remove it.
now i have to find some Dacron and see if i remember how to twist a string *(if not i will see about a store bought one till i get by brain filled back up)
thank you guys for the suggestions and well wishes *(gotta feeling y'all gonna be seeing a lot of me)
If you read the description, it does state it's not natural sinew.
India Sinew Natural Gray Colored 70lb 8oz 300 yard spool. This sinew is 70lb rated and is used in a variety of Native American handmade items such as dream catchers, medicine wheels, pipes, bow and arrows and much more. Also known as artificial, synthetic or imitation sinew.
-
Burlap, linen, and silk make pretty good backings. Beginners should back their first few attempts for insurance. More on my site.
http://georgeandjoni.home.comcast.net/~georgeandjoni/index.html
Jawge
-
Jawge has been at this longer than me, and built a bunch of bows, not to mention all the folks he has helped with his site. He is of course right in that a beginner has a better chance of keeping one together if it is backed somehow. My point on the "why back it at all" comment is not meant to disagree with his advice as much as it is meant to augment it. Backing a bow can be used as a replacement for proper back preparation, design selection and good tiller. These are more difficult to achieve early on, no doubt. But they are the essence of this craft. If you can accomplish these things, a backing is not needed to hold one together. I remember Jim Hamm stating the same thought about backing all of his early attempts as a substitute for the above. My early attempts were self bows. Some broke as a result of my deficiencies and lack of skill. But in those breaks I learned what not to do next time, probably sooner than if I had covered the flaws up. Just food for thought.
-
If you read the description, it does state it's not natural sinew.
India Sinew Natural Gray Colored 70lb 8oz 300 yard spool. This sinew is 70lb rated and is used in a variety of Native American handmade items such as dream catchers, medicine wheels, pipes, bow and arrows and much more. Also known as artificial, synthetic or imitation sinew.
:-[ lol... i didn't read that well enough. thank you
is there a quality source for REAL sinew that you guys can recommend?
-
Burlap, linen, and silk make pretty good backings. Beginners should back their first few attempts for insurance. More on my site.
http://georgeandjoni.home.comcast.net/~georgeandjoni/index.html
Jawge
thank you for the link Jawge. that site is information heaven!
-
You can get that drywall tape off and if you want reback it with silk from a tie or linen , some think burlap is ugly as sin but it gives a primitive look to it
-
What would be the best method to remove that ugly tape without damaging the back of the bow?
-
If you read the description, it does state it's not natural sinew.
India Sinew Natural Gray Colored 70lb 8oz 300 yard spool. This sinew is 70lb rated and is used in a variety of Native American handmade items such as dream catchers, medicine wheels, pipes, bow and arrows and much more. Also known as artificial, synthetic or imitation sinew.
:-[ lol... i didn't read that well enough. thank you
is there a quality source for REAL sinew that you guys can recommend?
I traded for it right here.
-
ok.. here are a few photos... i hope these are decent..
here on my bar... i am only working one limb right now and it's slow going.
(http://i486.photobucket.com/albums/rr226/barton664/20150216_120013.jpg) (http://s486.photobucket.com/user/barton664/media/20150216_120013.jpg.html)
(http://i486.photobucket.com/albums/rr226/barton664/20150216_120032.jpg) (http://s486.photobucket.com/user/barton664/media/20150216_120032.jpg.html)
and me giving the upper limb a little massage to see where i'm at...
(http://i486.photobucket.com/albums/rr226/barton664/20150216_120220.jpg) (http://s486.photobucket.com/user/barton664/media/20150216_120220.jpg.html)
i am taking the wood removal slow cause it's easier to remove than replace... lol
-
What would be the best method to remove that ugly tape without damaging the back of the bow?
it doesn't really matter what it looks like. it only matters what it shoots like ;)
but if you simply must remove it, just sand it off with a rasp and hit it with sand paper until it's clean again. you're working with a milled piece of lumber so you'll just be taking it back to a milled state on the back surface.
silk is really cheap and an easy way to obtain some is by dropping 5 bucks for a strip from the local fabric store. just ask the personnel for the 100% silk. if you get it in white or yellow, it all but disappears when applied with titebond 3 and you'll end up being able to clearly see the wood grain.
the silk fabric bolts are ~40" wide, so i only ask for about a 6" strip. unfold and cut that in half and you end up with two 3"x40" silk strips that you seam at the handle.
-
I guess on this one I'll leave the ugly. .. lol
i was worried about doing damage to the back while removing the tape. But since i already did it I'll leave it and next one i make I'll either silk it or leave it plain. .
I really appreciate the advice fellas. .
-
Wow leOn! Thanks for the great advice on procuring some silk. Even I could spring for 5 bucks to back a bow.
-
Looks good I've never built a boaed bow in my life. But from what I seen on here.
I'd use sinew
-
You have no width taper (back profile) and uneven thickness taper. How do you expect your stave to bend evenly? You need to reduce width profile first, getting your tips narrowed, and then reduce thickness evenly to the tips. Those massive, heavy tips are not going to bend... at all. Your bow will either break mid-limb, or take a massive amount of set. Even tapers make even bends.
-
Welcome to PA, Paco. Looks like you are off to a good start, keep it going.
I'm your closest PA neighbor, most likely. I'm in Naples on the other side of the alley.
I'd be happy to help you start out if you feel like going for a drive, sometime. It is kind of a tradition around here. Let me know if you are interested.
Good luck!
Stephen Parnell
-
Welcome to PA, Paco. Looks like you are off to a good start, keep it going.
I'm your closest PA neighbor, most likely. I'm in Naples on the other side of the alley.
I'd be happy to help you start out if you feel like going for a drive, sometime. It is kind of a tradition around here. Let me know if you are interested.
Good luck!
Stephen Parnell
nice to meet you neighbor. . We were in Naples this weekend visiting family in golden isle. .
Next trip over i will definitely let you know and pick your brain for info!
I will start the taper and quit trying to get that cart in front of the horse
-
Taper your bow evenly in width and thickness and it will bend evenly.
-
Ok.. ran up to fort lauderdale and was able to pick up a nice 10" drawknife for under 40$.. *(gotta keep swmnbma relatively happy)
got back to the house and honed it up nice and sharp and wouldn't ya know. before i can start shaping i find out that her dad and his wife are coming to eat... so hopefully tomorrow i can have some me time and get with the bowmaking.
i promise i will have progress photos and a million questions before i am done.
-
Well this one died an ignoble but informative death. ..
I'll pay better attention to my board selection next time. .. lol
Like the wise man said.
If you ain't breakin you ain't makin..
(http://i486.photobucket.com/albums/rr226/barton664/20150226_214419.jpg) (http://s486.photobucket.com/user/barton664/media/20150226_214419.jpg.html)
-
Actually, I doubt it was your board selection. Could be, but I don't think so. More likely a design flaw. Without even thickness taper, it's going to be overstressed where there's the least amount of wood... right where it broke.
-
Oh well. On to the next thing. Come over and see me, we'll see if we can start you on a stave and get you a real stable design to cut your teeth on.
-
Oh well. On to the next thing. Come over and see me, we'll see if we can start you on a stave and get you a real stable design to cut your teeth on.
i'll talk to she who must be obeyed and i feel the need to go to naples...
hopefully in the next couple weekends...
and thank you for the generous offer!
-
Generous offer indeed. Take him up on it! Making your first bow with a mentor is much better and way more successful.
-
Generous offer indeed. Take him up on it! Making your first bow with a mentor is much better and way more successful.
oh absolutely!!!