Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Blaflair2 on February 02, 2015, 11:48:07 pm
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Has anyone ever made a hybrid style bow from wood lams? I wanna try an ipe hybrid type design. Wasting my time?
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hybrid of what and what?
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A hybrid style longbow. Of ipe and a backer
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You need to be more specific, hybrid longbow is pretty non specific
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I'm not a laminate guy, so I'm pretty sure I couldn't answer your question even if i knew what exactly the question is. But just out of curiosity, what is your question? I'm quite confused. Hybrid is pretty vague without more details. Are you talking hybrid designs such as my pyramid five curves or chickenhawks Molly curve? I'm not being a wise guy by the way. Honest request for more info. Josh
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If by hybrid you mean an exaggerated D/R than yes it has been done. Marc St. Louis!
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Sorry, I meant like a fg :embarassed: hybrid. Like a big jim thunder child. Do u have a link to that missile master?
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A hybrid is just a reflex deflex bow and yes we do them all the time here. Most of them are boo backed but plenty of other backing you can use.
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I figured Steve, I just haven't saw one to the extent I wanna try, Bad Chris made the pyramid style bow for his daughter, I wanna try something similar with ipe, I'll try and get some boo, my idea is to make departs halts then splice together in a deflexed shape after I already backed and glued the limbs to reflex, I have an idea of how I wanna do it making a jig for my table saw and doing saw kerf joints, so a bunch of saw kerfs then mirrored on the other side. Add overlay and a handle block. Think that'd work?
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Not sure if this is the type you are looking for or not. http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,
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Exactly, just plan on execution is a little dofferent
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I figured Steve, I just haven't saw one to the extent I wanna try, Bad Chris made the pyramid style bow for his daughter, I wanna try something similar with ipe, I'll try and get some boo, my idea is to make departs halts then splice together in a deflexed shape after I already backed and glued the limbs to reflex, I have an idea of how I wanna do it making a jig for my table saw and doing saw kerf joints, so a bunch of saw kerfs then mirrored on the other side. Add overlay and a handle block. Think that'd work?
It would all work. My very first bows were R/D bows with way too much curve for my skills, and often takedowns, to boot.. Originally, I made one form, glued up one limb, then the other, and mounted then on a back angled handle with glue, screws and overlays. Here are a few things I learned.
Start with lams wide than you think you need. If you have a lot of reflex, you can get away with it if you have a lot of deflex, but pay attention to how those limbs then NEED to bend. Such a bow will be really stiff to get to brace height, so don't let that fool you. Once strung it starts to act more normal. If you want to make severe recurves or a parabolic reflex your lams need to be pretty thin (so think about a tri-lam, or a tip wedge) or pre-bend your tips with steam. Perry reflex will add a ton of stiffness, but you will lose it fast if one sopt gets too thin; it exaggerates hinges.
Don't get too aggressive. I used to make limbs that measured 7 inches deep from tip to middle to tip. Wood simply won't take that if you put them on the handle then with tips 5" ahead of the handle. Reflexed limbs should bend, recurves don't necessarily need to. Hickory ill hold Ipe just fine, but make good glue lines. I love TB III, but if I was back making these, I'd use URAC.
If you are splicing the limbs, add a power lam wedge for some thickness at the handle area so your splices will be robust, then add the handle block, and the overlays. Your splices will be best served by not bending in this style, so go ahead an build up a nice fat riser.
I have done exactly what you are planning (methods, not bow style necessarily) many, many times. Be warned, I simply failed on the vast majority of those bows. Inside every big problem, there are a hundred little problems struggling to get out. Devil is in the details.
Bear with me. Let me tell you a story........ The last laminated bow I made (68", R/D boo-backed goncalo alves) I misplaced the (spliced at the handle) bamboo backing so that there were nodes on each limb (where the bamboo thickens, of course), about 3" out from the fades. During tiller, I could not even see that area moving much, but I started to get little cryshals between the fades and the nodes. So I made some short slats of 1/8" thick ipe, flattened the area laterally, and glued the ipe bits in running up the fade-outs, and worked them down to nothing just as they (on the belly) arrived at the nodes (on the back). Great, but the tilled changed and I could suddenly see the area just beyond that bending too much. So, I corrected that out along the limbs. Then the ipe patches just woodn't hold where they thinned down, and kept lifting and stuff, and eventually I started over. I liked the emerging handle shape so much, I popped the handle block off and I ground the entire Goncalo belly down with a farriers rasp, to a bit over 1/8", levelled it on the belt sander, and glued on a 1/4" osage belly, spliced with a V at the belly/tapered a bit toward the tips, sanded and put the handle back on. NOW she was looking good. I left that whole area stiffer down by the fades and got going seriosly on tiller. At about 22" of draw with a short string, the belly of the osage slip fractured just above that first node on the lower limb. The grain had really fooled my eye and it ran back to front at a sharp angle, even though the QS osage looked perfect. BAM, major hinge, backing lifts and the bow is ruined. So, I salvaged the handle and.... never mind... I'm not even gonna finish. B ut I could go on for another page and a half.
That's the kind of stuff that happens. You get the idea.
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If you're doing a R/D bow, make CERTAIN you have the limbs bending very evenly before you go to the first low brace! If you don't, the strong limb will pull the weak limb very hard, and you may irreparably damage the weak limb. Once you have it braced, continue to tiller it while braced. I've found this type of bow is very fussy about having even tiller throughout.
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What adb said. Except I dont do a low brace with this type of bow. Personal preference.
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Yes, I have one that James Parker gave me last year. 60-70's, recurve style, bamboo backed, ipe.
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Lots of guys do them - Roy is a "master". Here is one of his he posted a while back on TG that I used to help me with my first.
http://tradgang.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=125;t=010449#000000
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For all those wondering, Jesse's bow which just won December backed BOM, is what a properly made and tillered R/D bow looks like. Please take note: http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,50052.0.html
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Yep. I've done em. Bamboo backed osage and boo backed yew tri-lams mostly. My last one was bamboo backed, yew core, osage belly... a hybrid more toward a deflex/reflex longbow with plenty of deflex and the reflex pushed far enough out the limb that it looks almost like a semi-recurve. Smoothest, sweetest bow I ever shot.