Primitive Archer

Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Bearded bowyer on January 24, 2015, 10:37:49 am

Title: When is a self bow a self bow......
Post by: Bearded bowyer on January 24, 2015, 10:37:49 am
Hi chaps
Been pondering this for a while. Got a shed load of hazelwood for self bows waiting to be made and was thinking.....
Just how much can you put on it, and it still be a self bow?
For example....could you add horn nocks, arrow pass or rest, padded grip etc and it still be a selfie????
Ta
Matt
Title: Re: When is a self bow a self bow......
Post by: Pat B on January 24, 2015, 10:41:46 am
Any bow that is made with a single piece of wood, a spliced handle is also acceptable, is considered a selfbow. The other things you mentioned are just accessories.  ;)
Title: Re: When is a self bow a self bow......
Post by: dylanholderman on January 24, 2015, 02:44:44 pm
Any bow that is made with a single piece of wood, a spliced handle is also acceptable, is considered a selfbow. The other things you mentioned are just accessories.  ;)

+1
Title: Re: When is a self bow a self bow......
Post by: huisme on January 24, 2015, 03:05:46 pm
As long as a single layer of material is doing the work back to belly I'd consider it a selfbow. Any number of splices still seem like a selfbow to me as the spliced material is doing its own work from back to belly.
Title: Re: When is a self bow a self bow......
Post by: bubby on January 24, 2015, 03:10:06 pm
After it flings about 600 arrows, just like any other wood bow
Title: Re: When is a self bow a self bow......
Post by: Del the cat on January 24, 2015, 03:36:12 pm
I did a Hazel bow from a stave that was so skinny it needed a block glued on the belly to stiffen the grip so it could be narrowed. I used some from the same log (you couldn't tell unless you really studied it. I'd consider that still a self bow...
What if the riser block was a contrasting wood? As the working limbs were all one bit of wood is it still a self bow, what does the team think?
Del
Title: Re: When is a self bow a self bow......
Post by: huisme on January 24, 2015, 03:46:04 pm
I did a Hazel bow from a stave that was so skinny it needed a block glued on the belly to stiffen the grip so it could be narrowed. I used some from the same log (you couldn't tell unless you really studied it. I'd consider that still a self bow...
What if the riser block was a contrasting wood? As the working limbs were all one bit of wood is it still a self bow, what does the team think?
Del

Does the block do any work? It holds the grip stiff, but is energy transferred via its medium?

I've always looked purely at the working limbs when asked about what a selfbow is. Maybe I've made myself look silly :P
Title: Re: When is a self bow a self bow......
Post by: RyanY on January 24, 2015, 03:48:32 pm
I feel it's a selfbow as long as the bending portion of the limbs is a single piece of wood. Although I do feel there are some exceptions in my opinion. These would be 3 piece takedowns and bows with spliced siyah's. Don't ask me why they're exceptions!  :laugh:
Title: Re: When is a self bow a self bow......
Post by: huisme on January 24, 2015, 03:52:15 pm
I feel it's a selfbow as long as the bending portion of the limbs is a single piece of wood. Although I do feel there are some exceptions in my opinion. These would be 3 piece takedowns and bows with spliced siyah's. Don't ask me why they're exceptions!  :laugh:

I've always thought siyah's didn't make the bow a composite/lam/not-selfbow, but they are commonly associated with horn bows. As for three piece takedowns, I don't see how that's less selfbow than two piece ;)
Title: Re: When is a self bow a self bow......
Post by: Pat B on January 24, 2015, 04:17:18 pm
From the glossary in the back of TBBIII..."Self bow: In the strict old definition, an unbacked wooden bow made from a single piece of wood. Today, self bow is used to mean any unbacked wooden bow, whether made from one or two pieces of wood."
Title: Re: When is a self bow a self bow......
Post by: huisme on January 24, 2015, 04:36:29 pm
Pat, why not include three pieces? If I have a selfbow handle with the limbs cut off and two takedown sleeves in their place and make limbs for it how is that less selfbow than the selfbows that use similar sleeves? Why include handle blocks, grip back buildups, side buildups, multi-lam buildups to stiffen an otherwise bendy handle, but not such a handle that detaches from selfbow limbs?
Title: Re: When is a self bow a self bow......
Post by: E. Jensen on January 24, 2015, 05:18:55 pm
I'm down with the classical and modern definitions listed.  My question is, do you guys still consider it a self bow, if it does not have self-tips?
Title: Re: When is a self bow a self bow......
Post by: huisme on January 24, 2015, 05:45:43 pm
I'm down with the classical and modern definitions listed.  My question is, do you guys still consider it a self bow, if it does not have self-tips?

Sure, the overlays don't store any energy, they just make sure the tips stay intact and the string stays in place.
Title: Re: When is a self bow a self bow......
Post by: missilemaster on January 24, 2015, 06:09:29 pm
I would say that as long as the energy storing part of the bow (limbs) are one piece then it is considered a self bow. 3 piece bow count.
Title: Re: When is a self bow a self bow......
Post by: Bearded bowyer on January 24, 2015, 06:18:26 pm
interesting
I always though a self bow had to have self nocks etc and no modifications. A "Bare bow"
Boy was I wrong!
Title: Re: When is a self bow a self bow......
Post by: E. Jensen on January 24, 2015, 06:21:10 pm
Which is why I'm glad two definitions were introduced, an older one like we think, bare bow, and a modern one
Title: Re: When is a self bow a self bow......
Post by: huisme on January 24, 2015, 06:23:12 pm
interesting
I always though a self bow had to have self nocks etc and no modifications. A "Bare bow"
Boy was I wrong!

Some bows had sinew nocks even though they weren't backed with sinew, leather shelf and handle, fur on the belly to quiet the bow, all these things are additions to the stick. What matters is what does the work ;)

The two definitions are pretty apt :)
Title: Re: When is a self bow a self bow......
Post by: Pat B on January 24, 2015, 06:34:58 pm
Tip overlays are cosmetic on most bows, not necessary. With woods that need tip protection tip overlays or horn nocks are just that, protection and have nothing to do with performance. siyahs added to a bows limb makes that bow a compound bow, compound construction that is.
Title: Re: When is a self bow a self bow......
Post by: huisme on January 24, 2015, 07:01:11 pm
Mellegabets just need them because there shouldn't be enough meat at the tip to hold a string unless you add a back nock ;) The bow I recently sent to Blaflair actually didn't need the walnut overlays at all, they didn't even do anything, they were just pretty.

Not sure about compound construction though. You could get the same effect by recurving a molle lever to the extreme (been thinking about that).
Title: Re: When is a self bow a self bow......
Post by: George Tsoukalas on January 24, 2015, 07:55:18 pm
If it is backed with anything it is a backed bow not a selfbow.

The term "self" implies a uniformity of materials.

Jawge
Title: Re: When is a self bow a self bow......
Post by: Hrothgar on January 24, 2015, 08:15:01 pm
So, if its made from a single piece of wood, its unbacked, and I made by myself, I can call it a "selfie" ?  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: When is a self bow a self bow......
Post by: huisme on January 24, 2015, 11:46:18 pm
So, if its made from a single piece of wood, its unbacked, and I made by myself, I can call it a "selfie" ?  ;D ;D ;D

No.

Maybe.

But no.
Title: Re: When is a self bow a self bow......
Post by: Lucasade on January 25, 2015, 05:01:29 am
In a purely theoretical way (because I've got no idea how the design mechanics work) if you had a stave, sawed off the ends to make siyahs and reattached them would it still be a self bow? That presumably would be just the same as using two billets made from the same piece of wood?
Title: Re: When is a self bow a self bow......
Post by: half eye on January 25, 2015, 10:46:13 am
I with you George T, 8) be careful with the common sense thing though >:D
rich