Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: arachnid on January 22, 2015, 08:07:46 am
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Hi guys.
I've been having some truble with my neighbors lately, claming I'm making too much noise in the building. It seems I have to start using more hand tools and much less power tools.
My main concern is roughing out the bow, when the major wood happens (since tillering is done with hand tools already).
I have a wood saw, wood rasp, spokeshave, plane, files and a scraper.
I'd like to know which hand tools are you all using to rough out the bow (mostly boards, some staves). Thing that remove a good amount of wood. Pictures will help a lot..
Thanks
Dor
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I use a draw knife if I don't want to use my Band saw. it will take a lot of wood quick the a farriers rasp to finish hogging it off. :)
Pappy
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How does a draw knife works on boards? Isn`t there a danger of ripping of too much wood because of the grain orientation in the board?
And how about tropicl woods like ipe? Does a draw knife works good with it?
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X2 what Pappy said. If you use a draw knife with boards, you'll just have to pay close attention to the direction of the grain you're working so you don't split it.......same as working any wood. Can't help with the ipe.....haven't worked with any.
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Sorry I can't say, someone will chime in I am sure, I don't do boards or IPE. Works great on staves of all kinds, I think I have heard at least Badger say he uses a draw knife on boards. :)
Pappy
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It was all rasp for me for the first few. I haven't had much luck with a draw knife on boards though. That being said my draw knife could use a good sharpening.
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A lot of people also use a hatchet.
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what Pappy said. Also, since boards are flat to begin with i have had great luck using a handplane (like a #3 bench plane), you can set it to take a pretty good slice and remove a lot of wood in a bit more controlled manner than a drawknife (still have to watch the grain). A spokeshave also works well, but again watch the grain.
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Get a farriers rasp (used for horse hoofs). These are much more aggressive than a wood rasp. Try to find one where the teeth go all the way to the edge.
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To get 'er down to a workable bow I use a hatchet. Other than that if you can afford it move out and make some noise. >:D
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I like using a drawknife to rough out the bow, I have used it on both board and tree split staves with little problems as long as I cut from handle to tip, not the other way around otherwise it snags and lifts off a large splinter of wood. The only problem with the drawknife is you need something to hold the stave down like a vise or a shaving horse. If you don't have that, hatchet, machete, or a big knife. Then I use a Farrier's rasp or a Shinto sawfile to get it done to the lines. Hope this helps.
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I use a hand axe to cut the wood close to shape and then bring it too bow dimesions on width and tiller mostly with small draw knife and wood rasp, mostly rasp for close work. Dean.
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I don't have any power tools. I remove all the excess material with a hatchet then when it's roughed out pretty good I use a rasp to do a lot of removal and a scraper for tillering, then sand paper to smooth it out.That's basically all I use to make a bow, oh and a draw knife to chase a ring if needed.
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Bows have been made without power for millennia.
I don't use a bandsaw but use a belt sander which can be omitted.
For ring chasing-dknife, scraper-like tool (push knife) and shave hooks.
I'd use a hatchet, dknife, and scraper-like tool.
Jawge
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Are you working realy late or something, I'd at least talk to them and then if they are just being unreasonable I'd tell them to pound sand, that said try to use the noisy tools at a decent hour
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Usually i actually prefer a hatchet for roughing out a bow. A good trick is to make relief chops so u reduce chances of a bad split. Dont try to get to close to your layout and use a rasp and scraper to close in on it.... Brian
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Sounds like you need new neighbors. If its during normal hours id tell em to piss off. Your noise may be annoying but so is their face, and you havent complained. If they insist ( and your doing this at normal hours) call the police and charge them with harassment.
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Well, I never work during rest hours it's just that my next door neighbor works night shifts and being the nice guy that I am ;D I'd like to consider his request.
And no, I can't move out since I just moved in ;).
Back to the topic- due to budget limitations, what would you suggest to get first, a ferriers rasp or a draw knife?
If it's drawknife, I'm realy thinking of getting the Flexcut curved blade since it's pretty affordable for my. I asked about it once but someone said it looks too flimsy... What do you think? Anyone with good experience with it?
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For boards you won't need the draw knife if you have the farriers rasp. For larger staves (like 3 inches thick) you will want a proper draw knife to start but will soon need the rasp. Guess it depends what kind of material you are working with.
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I use an 18" kukri for roughing out, and I can even get to floor tiller with the thing I've used it so much.
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Dor, based on the discussions here, I think a farriers rasp should be your next purchase. You can use one for any and every self bow you make from this point forward. I use mine all the time. And when you get ready for a draw knife, I'd suggest shopping for a good, older used one. Check the big auction site, local antique shops, flee markets etc. A lot of the old draw knives are better quality than the new ones......and less expensive. I looked at the Flexcut draw knife you referred to and I think I would pass on that one. Hope this helps.
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(http://i.imgur.com/me7aQTp.jpg)
These are my basic tools I use on board bows and conveniently fit into my tool box. Literally the cheapest ones I could buy. The only power tools are a circular saw to rip boards down and a belt sander for tip and riser shaping. I could do all the shaping with files but my belt sander does it in about 5 minutes...
Roughout with the shorter plane which has a radiused blade for aggressive removal, then clean it up with the longer plane. Because I'm using mostly straight boards I can get quite a ways into tillering only using the plane, I then go straight to the scraper.
For staves I use mostly the same tools but I replace the planes with a drawknife and hatchet. My drawknife is just a cheap 8" straight blade one from Menards but I like it for what it does. You HAVE to use thick drawknives like this bevel down unless you're debarking big logs. You vary the angle to determine the aggressiveness of the cut so you can either hog off big slivers of wood, or chase rings on high rpi staves. If the wood is straight I'll use this as long as I can while tillering, otherwise I switch to a wood rasp then scraper. I'd like to try out a Shinto or farriers rasp as this is the last major gap in my tool collection is.
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Are you working realy late or something, I'd at least talk to them and then if they are just being unreasonable I'd tell them to pound sand, that said try to use the noisy tools at a decent hour
+1, in my town it's no power tools after 9pm till 9am. Other than that they can just deal with it. But I mostly use hand tool. They did fonch a bit when I was splitting a stave at midnight on a weekend.
Farriers rasp is your friend. Patrick
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The first draw knife I got was the five inch curved flex cut drawknife. It is super sharp but I haven't used it since I got an old one at an antique shop. For me it was just a little to flimsy for anything but fine reduction. Hope this helps you in your hunt for tools. Also, I would suggest getting a ferriers rasp because you can do things with it you can't with a draw knife, like working knots without a lot of tearout.
Cade
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I use a small block plane a lot.
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Can anyone recomend a good ferriers rasp from e-bay (can't seem to find it anywhere else)?
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I think it's great you are being considerate as the guy works nightshift. It's nice to be nice (with the odd patch of grumpy, just to break it up a tad >:D )
Maybe you could get all the roughing out done one day a month in a batch or some such when he's not tryng to sleep...
If you really want to be evil... you could lure him into making bows >:D
Del (exits left rubbing paws with glee and cackling wildly)
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arachnid, do you have an orchleans around you? They are 20 bucks there.
If not try somewhere that sells saddles or a farrier. Sometimes they will have used ones that are still really good for wood work. Patrick
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Can anyone recomend a good ferriers rasp from e-bay (can't seem to find it anywhere else)?
Bellotta is a great farriers rasp , even if they are french >:D
Super sharp and mine was $22
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hatchet ,,draw knife and very large rasp,,
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Arachnid, 3Rivers has farriers rasp.......look under "Bows" - "Bow Building Tools"
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X 2 on Bellotta farrier rasps. Mine was about $30 and it hogs off wood like you wouldn't believe.
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8" slightly curved weyth drawknife, torges rasp, cabinet scrapper and sand paper almost every time. On occasion I will use an ax for large belly reductions in the begining but switch to the draw knife as soon as I can until its roughed out. Then its to the rasp to floor tiller. Most of my tillering is with the cabinet scraper. Probabely why it takes me longer. Seems like you get into a habit of doing things a certain way and its just hard to change if its working.
I Started out on board bows my first 5 or 6 but have'nt needed to do one of those in a long while now. Not that I would'nt but just haven't had to.I do remember having some tear out issues on one or two boards with the draw knife and it caused em to come in underweight. Live and learn. Danny
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Thanks for all the suggestions guys. Your great!
I've noticed that no one montioned a surform rasp. Is it worth the money?
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Thanks for all the suggestions guys. Your great!
I've noticed that no one montioned a surform rasp. Is it worth the money?
IMO they are rubbish except the cylinder on, but they it rolls onto the floor, you tread on it and it breaks >:(
(so that's a no!)
Del
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Thanks for all the suggestions guys. Your great!
I've noticed that no one montioned a surform rasp. Is it worth the money?
I bought one, IT doesn't work for me. With a draw knife of boards I have found that one side of the limb will need to be cut from handle to tip, an the other from tip to handle, otherwise it digs and you can ruin the board. Farriers rasps work well to hog off wood.
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Thanks for all the suggestions guys. Your great!
I've noticed that no one montioned a surform rasp. Is it worth the money?
I use a surform rasp for a whole lot of wood removal and I like them they work good
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A Surform file works great, I have 3 different sizes and if it does not work then replace the blade. The larger two handed one will rip off wood like crazy, and doing it all by hand just adds to the fun of bow building
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It works great on white woods. On osage, not so much.
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I found this farrier`s rasp on E-Bay and it`s pretty affordable....
What do you guys think?
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With a draw knife of boards I have found that one side of the limb will need to be cut from handle to tip, an the other from tip to handle, otherwise it digs and you can ruin the board. Farriers rasps work well to hog off wood.
+1 on this. I use a drawknife for all of my wood removal, I don't have any power tools to use. If the knife starts digging in on your board, turn around 180 degrees and draw it the other way. You can remove a lot of wood fast with a good drawknife (and you can also screw up a good stave real fast with a drawknife).
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I found this farrier`s rasp on E-Bay and it`s pretty affordable....
What do you guys think?
What make is it? Mine is a "Save Edge" and I wouldn't be without it. The guys on here will tell you if it's a decent make.
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I found this farrier`s rasp on E-Bay and it`s pretty affordable....
What do you guys think?
Oops..... forgot to place the link... :P
That's the rasp- http://m.ebay.com/itm/261738334670?nav=WATCHING_ACTIVE
Opinions?
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If you have a vise or shaving horse, get the drawknife and the farriers rasp. If not, get a machete and farriers rasp. The machete can be used to chop and as a push knife (if you wear a glove, or leave the outer half dull.)
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Anyone?
Doesn't anyone have an opinion on the rasp I posted?
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Well, I personally wouldn't buy that one. I would look for one that is American made. I believe that one is cast. I would at least try to find one that is not casted. JMO Patrick
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Ok now that's chinese for me....
What do you mean by "cast"?
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Ok now that's chinese for me....
What do you mean by "cast"?
I think he means the metal is cast, like cast iron, where hot metal is poured into a mold. I have never even heard of that for files of any sort, but many manufacturers do run blanks through a rolling jig to cut/ raise the teeth, which is not as good as somone cutting the teeth in by hand onto the annealed blank, and then heating and quenching the steel to harden it. I don't klnow manufacturers by reputation for farriers rasps. I just bought what they had at the seed and feed store, 15.00 and it was great.
You might want to look into the "shinto" rasps, too. A very clever design, and not too expensive. Ebay has some, last I looked.
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I actually got in contact with a farrier that pointed me to her supplyer. He's got USA made rasps for 110 NIS (about 25$).
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Cast metal, the file is made from liquid metal that is pored into a form the shape of a file. There's no doubt that It will remove wood but if you look a bit more you should be able to find one that is solid steel for around 20 bucks! Patrick
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Sounds like you are on the right track arachnid! I just think that you will be much happier with one like that. It should last you a life time.
Springbuck I have some files that I got from Lowe's when I first started and they are cast. Junk at best and the teeth are uneven on some of the rougher ones as well. I dropped one on the concert on purpose and it broke in 3 pieces. So I just use them for things I don't want to use my good ones for.
Sorry I forgot you aren't in the US. Good luck and let us see your file when you get one. Patrick
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I never used anyting but a chainsdaw. HATCH,DRAWKNIFE,RASPS,SCRAPERS,SAND PAPER BY HAND. Maybe in 10 years after I get a little older a little hurter. After 23 years of building sefbows all bows right now I'm not there yet. Besides I like the exture work.
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I use a draw knife and then Ferrier's rasp. On red oak boards I only use the draw knife cautiously because it removes unwanted gouges occasionally. Heck u could make a bow with just that if it didn't need to be purdy.