Primitive Archer

Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: bambam on January 09, 2015, 02:44:38 pm

Title: New?? way to re-enforce tips
Post by: bambam on January 09, 2015, 02:44:38 pm
I make fast flight plus strings so a strong tip is important. This is home made micarta molded right onto the tip. I used Irish linen pieces soaked in epoxy glue. 6 full length pieces then 6 small pieces where the string cut went on back side. Wrap it tightly with sandwich wrap which will not stick to the glue then tape wrap. Not pretty but tough as nails. I made 4 backed board bows before. None broke and all were good shooters but this serviceberry is my first primitive. 3/4 finished and looking good, wish me luck.
Title: Re: New?? way to re-enforce tips
Post by: bambam on January 09, 2015, 02:45:12 pm
Belly side
Title: Re: New?? way to re-enforce tips
Post by: PatM on January 09, 2015, 03:10:09 pm
I have done this as well. You can repeatedly sand and re-coat until the "micarta" is clear and glass smooth. I use this technique to form the lugs on my bamboo bikes and with varied cloth colors you can make interesting patterns.
  (http://i399.photobucket.com/albums/pp78/pat_05/IMG_1734_zpsd1471e57.jpg)
Title: Re: New?? way to re-enforce tips
Post by: Chief RID on January 09, 2015, 03:28:52 pm
That is wicked cool!
Title: Re: New?? way to re-enforce tips
Post by: Stringman on January 09, 2015, 03:30:50 pm
What is the difference between this and fiber *****?
Title: Re: New?? way to re-enforce tips
Post by: PatM on January 09, 2015, 03:55:06 pm
One is natural fiber and the other is not?
Title: Re: New?? way to re-enforce tips
Post by: bambam on January 09, 2015, 04:18:27 pm
The work on that bike is incredible. Really it isn't terribly different than using sinew and glue.
Title: Re: New?? way to re-enforce tips
Post by: bubby on January 09, 2015, 04:51:14 pm
If u pad the loops you don't have to worry about it
Title: Re: New?? way to re-enforce tips
Post by: bushboy on January 09, 2015, 07:07:44 pm
Alas primitive shrink wrap!lol! >:D
Title: Re: New?? way to re-enforce tips
Post by: missilemaster on January 09, 2015, 07:13:54 pm
Dang Pat, can we get a full shot of that bike?
Title: Re: New?? way to re-enforce tips
Post by: bow101 on January 09, 2015, 07:53:19 pm
Was thinking of doing something like that in the past.  Whatever works, good improvisational tip.  8)   I just made some Linen Phenolic so they call it that.  Very simple to make.  You can use whatever even paper.
Title: Re: New?? way to re-enforce tips
Post by: PatM on January 09, 2015, 08:55:09 pm
Dang Pat, can we get a full shot of that bike?
Let me  see if I can blur my logo out...
(http://i399.photobucket.com/albums/pp78/pat_05/93fe4bba-76b1-4a52-8150-4fc612fc6130_zps9bc909f3.jpg)
Title: Re: New?? way to re-enforce tips
Post by: missilemaster on January 09, 2015, 09:39:40 pm
Holy Cow! :o  That thing is amazing! Do you need to use a special kind of bamboo? Sorry didn't mean to hijack this thread.
Title: Re: New?? way to re-enforce tips
Post by: Roy on January 09, 2015, 10:41:35 pm
I just use duct tape:)
Title: Re: New?? way to re-enforce tips
Post by: Aaron H on January 10, 2015, 06:54:00 am
That's incredible pat
Title: Re: New?? way to re-enforce tips
Post by: PatM on January 10, 2015, 11:21:21 am
Thanks guys. I always thought the technique would also make for an interesting pattern for a camo backing. 
 I was inspired by the back of a "Tiger trout" for that pattern.
Title: Re: New?? way to re-enforce tips
Post by: bambam on January 10, 2015, 11:33:48 am
You should definitely  make a bow with that backing and post it even if the purists object.
Title: Re: New?? way to re-enforce tips
Post by: scp on January 10, 2015, 11:49:38 am
IMHO there are many ways to go primitive. One can use primitive (all natural) materials. Then we would not be allowed to use epoxy, modern glues and modern strings. But one can use primitive process (hand made) against modern process (machine made). I'm more inclined to be the latter. From now on, let's just draw pictures of our bows instead taking picture of them with digital cameras. ;) Just kidding. But actually drawing can be more instructive than photos.
Title: Re: New?? way to re-enforce tips
Post by: Stringman on January 10, 2015, 04:26:43 pm
Call the dogs off guys, I wasn't trying to start a war. Just wanted someone to point out the difference.

Pat your workmanship on that frame is beautiful!
Title: Re: New?? way to re-enforce tips
Post by: Knoll on January 10, 2015, 04:29:39 pm
WOW, Pat!!  That's some kinda frame!  What is its weight?  Certainly woulda been a conversation piece in the peloton.
Title: Re: New?? way to re-enforce tips
Post by: bambam on January 10, 2015, 07:27:34 pm
There was a thread about 6 months ago from someone who made his own stone tools to harvest the sapling and used them to make the bow. After making a primitive material string, arrows and points he shot a varmint for the leather goods. As the Aussies would say, good on ya mate. Most of us would not go that far to get points for being primitive and use good steel, Tightbond III etc. Pat ya gotta show us a bow with that backing !!!
Title: Re: New?? way to re-enforce tips
Post by: wizardgoat on January 11, 2015, 01:50:32 am
PatM thats awesome. I want to see some flintstone rock wheels on that!
Title: Re: New?? way to re-enforce tips
Post by: Dances with squirrels on January 11, 2015, 09:40:38 am
Wow man, that bike frame is friggin awesome!

What do you use for spokes? Rivercane? :^)
Title: Re: New?? way to re-enforce tips
Post by: bubby on January 11, 2015, 10:16:33 am
There was a thread about 6 months ago from someone who made his own stone tools to harvest the sapling and used them to make the bow. After making a primitive material string, arrows and points he shot a varmint for the leather goods. As the Aussies would say, good on ya mate. Most of us would not go that far to get points for being primitive and use good steel, Tightbond III etc. Pat ya gotta show us a bow with that backing !!!
What is the difference between this and fiber *****?
The thing is there has to be a line in the sand where we make a stand with natural material bows , a more natural phenolic would be horn or hoof
Title: Re: New?? way to re-enforce tips
Post by: mikekeswick on January 11, 2015, 10:20:33 am
 8)
Pat - That's way too cool.....do you do mountain bikes?
Interesting idea for the tips but I'd say a normal overlay would be better (lighter for same extra strength). Just make some flat pieces then glue them on.
Title: Re: New?? way to re-enforce tips
Post by: PatM on January 11, 2015, 10:27:17 am
There was a thread about 6 months ago from someone who made his own stone tools to harvest the sapling and used them to make the bow. After making a primitive material string, arrows and points he shot a varmint for the leather goods. As the Aussies would say, good on ya mate. Most of us would not go that far to get points for being primitive and use good steel, Tightbond III etc. Pat ya gotta show us a bow with that backing !!!
What is the difference between this and fiber *****?
The thing is there has to be a line in the sand where we make a stand with natural material bows , a more natural phenolic would be horn or hoof

 People glue linen backings on natural material bows  so what's the difference between a linen backing and a wad of linen  on the bow tip?
Title: Re: New?? way to re-enforce tips
Post by: bubby on January 11, 2015, 11:17:01 am
Whatever pat I'm not getting in a pissing match with you, i just said there was a natural alternative
Title: Re: New?? way to re-enforce tips
Post by: Springbuck on January 11, 2015, 11:33:08 am
Pat makes bamboo bike frames?  That is truly astounding.
Title: Re: New?? way to re-enforce tips
Post by: PatM on January 11, 2015, 11:37:24 am
Whatever pat I'm not getting in a pissing match with you, i just said there was a natural alternative
Is linen not natural?  >:D
Title: Re: New?? way to re-enforce tips
Post by: Springbuck on January 11, 2015, 11:40:51 am
But one can use primitive process (hand made) against modern process (machine made). I'm more inclined to be the latter. From now on, let's just draw pictures of our bows instead taking picture of them with digital cameras.

I'm with you. I often use superglue where I could use hide glue, just because I freely admit I don't want to mess with hide glue, and wait for it to dry.... I want to get on with making the bow!  ;)


Also, BTW, everybody remembers the old kniife handles with the stacked leather soaked in glue, right?  So, similarly, rawhide could be soaked in hideglue and wrapped and/or stacked in layers and pressed to reinforce tips or something.
Title: Re: New?? way to re-enforce tips
Post by: JoJoDapyro on January 11, 2015, 11:43:06 am
I made my first board bow with all hand tools. I can't imagine making one with all abo tools. When it comes to "Primitive" I think we are all lost a bit. I guess the question is: Can you make a bow with all "primitive" tools and materials? I think I smell a Challenge!
Title: Re: New?? way to re-enforce tips
Post by: bubby on January 11, 2015, 01:02:13 pm
Whatever pat I'm not getting in a pissing match with you, i just said there was a natural alternative
Is linen not natural?  >:D



not when it's saturated in epoxy
Title: Re: New?? way to re-enforce tips
Post by: PatM on January 11, 2015, 01:16:19 pm
You use hide glue and  linen string for your horn overlays? >:D
Title: Re: New?? way to re-enforce tips
Post by: bubby on January 11, 2015, 02:18:54 pm
I use horn and hoof for overlays ::)
Title: Re: New?? way to re-enforce tips
Post by: bubby on January 11, 2015, 02:20:32 pm
I made my first board bow with all hand tools. I can't imagine making one with all abo tools. When it comes to "Primitive" I think we are all lost a bit. I guess the question is: Can you make a bow with all "primitive" tools and materials? I think I smell a Challenge!




http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,35727.msg469994.html#msg469994
Title: Re: New?? way to re-enforce tips
Post by: PatM on January 11, 2015, 02:28:12 pm
I use horn and hoof for overlays ::)
With what glue and for what string? The trouble with drawing lines for other people is that you have to be careful you don't cross them yourself.
 
Title: Re: New?? way to re-enforce tips
Post by: Ghost308 on January 11, 2015, 02:30:44 pm
Ryan Gill makes and use all primitive tools to make bows and arrows and stone tips he is one of the few that do it and his work is out standing.
Title: Re: New?? way to re-enforce tips
Post by: bubby on January 11, 2015, 02:44:06 pm
this has been rehashed over and over and snarky antagonistic comments get people all worked up so have at it, i'm gonna work on a bow  8)
Title: Re: New?? way to re-enforce tips
Post by: Chief RID on January 11, 2015, 04:31:03 pm
I still like those tips bambam and I still like the bike Pat M and I still appreciate those that have self imposed ideals because that is just who I am, today. Watch out tomorrow.
Title: Re: New?? way to re-enforce tips
Post by: bradsmith2010 on January 11, 2015, 04:33:06 pm
i have been working on a bow and need overlays, this thread got me thinking,,and there are some great nice ideas here,, I think I will try built up sinew and hide glue just to see how it works ,, I have never tried that before, I usually use titebond on the overlays, thinking it might be more waterproof,, but maybe I will put a thin goat hide over the sinew as I have seen on some Native bows,,, :) I do like the built up linen as well and will try that in the future as well,, :)
Title: Re: New?? way to re-enforce tips
Post by: JoJoDapyro on January 11, 2015, 05:35:40 pm
Brad, I did some rawhide and sinew ones once. They work like a charm.
Title: Re: New?? way to re-enforce tips
Post by: PatM on January 11, 2015, 06:54:22 pm
this has been rehashed over and over and snarky antagonistic comments get people all worked up so have at it, i'm gonna work on a bow  8)
I just wondered what made your undoubtedly super-glued natural material overlays designed to cope with high tech string  more primitive than a mixture of natural fiber and high tech glue.
 Seems like variations of a theme to me.