Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: sleek on December 27, 2014, 08:08:06 pm
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(http://i1092.photobucket.com/albums/i411/rocketernally/20141226_2122420_zpsmoi1smfw.jpg) (http://s1092.photobucket.com/user/rocketernally/media/20141226_2122420_zpsmoi1smfw.jpg.html)
One tip wants to pull out the recurve on me and the other ( lower ) limb had a bad twist aout the fade and then corrected mid ways up the limb making the limb hard to tiller. When the limb does that it maked it harder to bend but im not sure how stresses are being applied.
Do I make it the same width and thickness as the upper limb and ignore the twist, ignoring the fact that it looks to bend less, or take more off to make the bend even bit stress the limb more? Right now its stiffer and the bottom limb as a result. Any thoughts?
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yes make it the same ,, and ignore the twist,, just as long as they are bending even at full draw, ,, if the bottom limb is a little stiffer that is ok,, it is looking pretty good,,, do you have an unbraced photo,,, that would help,
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Sleek, that tiller from this side looks pretty doggone good to me. A limb with a twist in it is always a challenge since it can look a lot different viewed from the other side. I would shoot it some and see how it feels. I don't worry so much about limb thickness and width matching up perfectly in the upper and lower limbs near as much as making sure they are bending equally. If you have an even bend and it feels good in the hand - call it done. There is my two cents.
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Should post an unbraced and braced photo.
what is your target weight and draw length, and where are you at now?
If it's a straight limb bow with flipped tips, I'd say you should give your upper limb a few scrapes, but not in your fade area.
I've found slight twist to not affect how the bow shoots. I leave weird areas slightly stiff, but sooner or later you gotta get those areas in the mix
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You should shoot some arrows and see how it feels, it may be fine
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that bottom limb does look a little stiff about that last end of the inner third. I don't usually reply with tiller help but I think thats what I'm seeing. the top limb looks maaavaleous. Danny
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I say it looks good. I had to look again after Danny's comment about the bottom limb. I thought it would take too much scraping before you had a hinge mid limb if you messed with it anymore. It is the strong/shorter limb and will have to take a little more abuse to the wood cells.
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Looking pretty good to me.
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Lower looks stiff out of the fades and the upper is stiff from fade out towards the tip.
Really need to see it unbraced before bending and a front view to tell for sure.
Do you trace the outline of the staves back before bending? I strongly recommend it as it answers the question you have just asked. Once you have a definite unbraced and more importantly unstressed/bent profile traced onto a piece of paper/tillering board/whatever then every time you remove wood and exercise it you immediately unstring it and hold it up to your original line - bingo! The stave tells you what the tiller is like.
I have used this method for years now and the beauty of it is it never lies and you never get it wrong. Just watch for the set...even just a 1/16th
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Looks good to me too, but as said above, the unstrung shape and better, the unstrung shape before any tillering is needed to know if the stress is even along the limb.
The only bow that ought to look perfect at full draw is one that was straight or had an even curve before tillering began.
What's more, Since you have it at full draw, any tillering you do is going to reduce weight.
As someone said, I'd shoot it and see how it behaves. It would have to be a bruiser for hand-shock or just too heavy before I would do anything else to that bow. It looks like a shooter.
Jim
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I tend to agree with you Jim, once you get it out to full draw you are pretty much done.
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I see the bottom limb bending just a bit less about where the top limb is bending the most, but it isn't off by much. If it hasn't taken much set, and you like the draw weight, maybe shoot it a bit and keep your eye on it. If the difference becomes more pronounced after 20 shots, I'd correct it for sure, but if not......
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(http://i1092.photobucket.com/albums/i411/rocketernally/20141228_102133_zpsxnpbfjys.jpg) (http://s1092.photobucket.com/user/rocketernally/media/20141228_102133_zpsxnpbfjys.jpg.html)
Its at 55#@28
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(http://i1092.photobucket.com/albums/i411/rocketernally/20141228_102032_zpssaskabhj.jpg) (http://s1092.photobucket.com/user/rocketernally/media/20141228_102032_zpssaskabhj.jpg.html)
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The right limb is the lower in the last pic, left limb in the upper. You can see the twist it has there. Its taken maybe an inch of set so far. Still holding an inch of reflex. If I loose to much weight fixing the tiller I will just shorten it an inch and reflex the tips a bit more to bring the weight back up.
Looking at it flat on a table neither limb seems to have more set than the other. Perhaphs I can stress this desing more... both are pretty flat minus the twist the lower limb has.
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Judging by the unbraced shape, the bow is bending more out of the fades and less at mid limb, BUT, you are probably gaining speed if you don't end up with more set at the fades.
You haven't told us the length (unless I missed it, and I did look). If you have 55# now I'd say you are getting plenty of work out of the bow. Again, just shoot it and watch it, particularly string follow. Check after every 10 shots or so. If you get more set, note where it is and thin the other areas--carefully.
Jim
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Yeah, that top limb bends too much out the fade. I tried heat treating it there to stiffen it but it made no difference. I guess osage doesnt heat harden like elm hickory ash locust etc... I left it braced most the day yesterday and pulled it a lot. Seems to be settled in on set but I gotnit strung now too and will do the same today. That should tell me where its taking the most stress.
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at this point you would really be fine tuning,, if it shoots well,, I would do as suggested and shoot it quite a bit and adjust if the tiller should shift,, :) or not if still shooting great,,, no need to loose any weight if that is a consideration for this bow,
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The twist is probabley what Im seeing. Its no doubt a dandy. Dont listen to me. Shoot it and see how it behaves.
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I think it looks good. See how it shoots. Jawge
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Looks really good Sleek.
Below is a composite pic- one layer was rotated a bit tho'. If I did anything, I'd thin the areas with the red marks a tad to get them working a bit more in keeping with Tim's mantra on mid-limb bending in the TBB.
c.d.
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Man I keep looking at the pic you made there. On my phone screen its hard to see but im guessing the limbs are see through here and the lay on top each other perfectly? Is that what I am seeing? If my tiller really looked like that id be tickled.
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i think if he makes that part of the bow work more, the reflex will bend out,,
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I don't. Reflex is held better in thinner wood.
I still think it's bending too much out of the upper fade but it could be that wavey bit.
The tracing of its profile before being bent is the simple answer to all these 'tiller issues'. Set tells you everything.
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Mike, I dont understand, how does thinner wood hold reflex better? I dont want the tips working, and I thought thinner tips would bend? What am I not understanding here?
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Mike, I dont understand, how does thinner wood hold reflex better? I dont want the tips working, and I thought thinner tips would bend? What am I not understanding here?
Not speaking for Mike, but thinner wood can bend farther before taking set.
Jim
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if reflex held better in thinner wood,, then you could make the recurves in a recurve bow thin,, but you have to leave them thicker so they dont bend out,, sometimes even adding overlays or underlays to strengthen the reflexed area,, , maybe it is true in some applications in a slightly working recurve,(slightly working),, if you have a reflexed area in the working limb,, it will appear stiff,, so make it look like the rest of the bend ,, sometimes the taper is violated,, and you end up with over stressing the reflexed part of the bow,, I agree the set is telling about this bow,, given were the reflex is in the limb,, I think it is good,, I think the set is due to that part of the bow doing most the work,, but if that is all the set it takes,, ok,, a straight stave bow with the same set and less mass on the outer limbs would probably perform about the same,, if you thin the reflexed area with even taper I think it will bend out and the bow will take more set,, the reduced mass may make up for it and it will still shoot well,,, it just wont have the same unbraced profile,, :)
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(http://i1092.photobucket.com/albums/i411/rocketernally/20150312_224842_zpsu2orlidj.jpg) (http://s1092.photobucket.com/user/rocketernally/media/20150312_224842_zpsu2orlidj.jpg.html)
Finally revisited this bow. The new full draw pic is above. I have decided to flip the bow end for end because in this pic the upper is stiffer than the lower. As in this pic the upper limb took 1/4 set from flat against the wall and the lower took 3/4. Flipping it will help I am sure. What do yall think? Better than before?
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Sleek, crop your pics so just your bow is in them. It will be easier for us to see. Horizontal is better than vertical.
Also you should show a braced pic. If the string is parallel to the handle the limbs are pulling equally. cheers fiddler49
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(http://i1092.photobucket.com/albums/i411/rocketernally/20150315_162543_zps4mccinyr.jpg) (http://s1092.photobucket.com/user/rocketernally/media/20150315_162543_zps4mccinyr.jpg.html)
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(http://i1092.photobucket.com/albums/i411/rocketernally/20150315_154847_zpsjrurjje2.jpg) (http://s1092.photobucket.com/user/rocketernally/media/20150315_154847_zpsjrurjje2.jpg.html)
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(http://i1092.photobucket.com/albums/i411/rocketernally/20150315_154930_zpssudlubzm.jpg) (http://s1092.photobucket.com/user/rocketernally/media/20150315_154930_zpssudlubzm.jpg.html)
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(http://i1092.photobucket.com/albums/i411/rocketernally/20150315_155021_zpsqzpcr8sh.jpg) (http://s1092.photobucket.com/user/rocketernally/media/20150315_155021_zpsqzpcr8sh.jpg.html) bison handle wrap courtesy of lebhuntfish. Thanks buddy for all your help.
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(http://i1092.photobucket.com/albums/i411/rocketernally/20150315_130841_zpsxqddq0mf.jpg) (http://s1092.photobucket.com/user/rocketernally/media/20150315_130841_zpsxqddq0mf.jpg.html)
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(http://i1092.photobucket.com/albums/i411/rocketernally/20150315_164150_zpshxnqh16t.jpg) (http://s1092.photobucket.com/user/rocketernally/media/20150315_164150_zpshxnqh16t.jpg.html)
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(http://i1092.photobucket.com/albums/i411/rocketernally/20150315_130926_zpsbjl3ywks.jpg) (http://s1092.photobucket.com/user/rocketernally/media/20150315_130926_zpsbjl3ywks.jpg.html)
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(http://i1092.photobucket.com/albums/i411/rocketernally/20150315_164213_zpsekikzlra.jpg) (http://s1092.photobucket.com/user/rocketernally/media/20150315_164213_zpsekikzlra.jpg.html)
45#@29"
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(http://i1092.photobucket.com/albums/i411/rocketernally/20150315_164641_zpstwib3rpt.jpg) (http://s1092.photobucket.com/user/rocketernally/media/20150315_164641_zpstwib3rpt.jpg.html)
This is with a 500 grain arrow give or take a few. I can not pull 29" and shoot so Patrick's friend Devon had to shoot for me. Problem was, he is a 3 under guy and split was very hard for him. Most shots were in the upper 160 range. I dont know why the first was so fast and the rest were not aside from Devon was having a hard time shooting.
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Nice, looks like it turned out sleek! I think your chrono's broken though ;)
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Looks like you got anice shooter there Sleek. Bring it to Ojam if your coming. Ill be in one of the Tipis on the main road in.
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Its a pretty sweet bow. Unfortunately I had to trade it. But I did get a few pieces of osage out of the deal :) lebhuntfish ( patric ) spent a good weekend together splitting all this out. But thats gonna be another thread.
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The pictures don't do it justice guys! I shot this thing myself and it's a very smooth shooting bow and should fit a first timer very well. It literally has a mirror finish and only took 3/4" of set. Patrick
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Yeah, this guy never shot a bow before. So I hope he enjoys this one. Said he has strung and unstrung it many times already getting used to the bow. I think the arrows are too heavy for it but they do shoot well. 3/4 set isnt terrible considering its 62" long stiff handled and pulls 29". If yall look close in the pics there is a string between the handle and draw string. As the bow is drawn that string is pulled taught. Its set to be all the way taught at 29" of draw to prevent overdraw, this guy being new and all...
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It turned out real nice sleek.
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Thanks for the compliments guys. Im proud of it. And im sure the new owner will take care of it and thats a good feeling. Im working on another right now very similar. I like this design and intend on figuring out exactly how best to get the most of it. Will be doing much chonographing on it as I build more.