Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: HoorayHorace on December 21, 2014, 06:11:26 pm
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Anyone ever work ipe with only hand tools? Trying to get some boards to dimensions......and it is a killer :-\
The stuff is like steel!
Handtools are all I can get right now, but I'm thinking it is a lost cause.
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epe might test your metal, and your tools, but hang in there you will get it, if your gonna build bows ya can't have any quit ;)
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You could make armour out of this stuff!
Tempted just to start swinging at the stuff with the axe, but will keep my cool ;)
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After cutting the back profile with the bandsaw I used only a #49 Nicholson rasp and cabinet scraper on the hickory backed ipe bows I built. When I got used to building bows one way the wood doesn't matter that much to me.
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Same as Pat, I use my nicholson 49 and a scraper all the time. But I do cut the profile with a bandsaw.
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Welllllll, guess I better hope for bandsaw as Christmas gift!!
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I just use a farriers rasp. A farriers rasp will eat through it in a hurry if you clamp it well and know how to wield a rasp.
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I never worked ipe. I like the color of the wood though. Jawge
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I love handtools, I don't even want a bandsaw. I get plenty of satisfaction doing all the work from cutting the tree to finishing the bow. Powertools are nice but hand tools get the job done with patience and determination.
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Wear a dusk mask or you may suffer serious consequences.
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I wouldn't even have started!
Are you trying to reduce it down to where you can do a glue-up with it?
If so I'd find a good local furniture makers and get them to rough it out.
Same if you are trying to get a surface dead flat for a glue-up - ask them to run it through a drum sander.
There is zero chance i'd waste my time trying to get slats ready for a glue-up by hand....no way! As mentioned ipe dusk is a killer.
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I've ripped a (surfaced) 1"x5" decking board into three slats of about 1˝" wide by hand. I just used a hand saw. Sure, it takes time and the cut will not be straight and flat enough for gluing. But that's what the 1˝" wide face is for :) That comes pre-surfaced and nearly ready to glue off the shelf. I prefer to use a circular saw table to rip my ipé boards to the right width, but a hand saw does work. Also a simple jigsaw will work and it's a lot cheaper than a band saw.
After the glue-up, I use a hand plane to rough out the blank. That goes a lot quicker than a rasp and it keeps the dust down. It also creates much straighter lines, while it's easy to make hills and valleys with a rasp.
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High angle planes (60 degrees), with a high speed steel blade will allow you to work dense tropical woods without tearout. They are specialist items though, and are pretty expensive. You also have to know how to sharpen, and have appropriate sharpening stones.
Unfortunately you either have to buy expensive powertools or handtools, or work at a snails pace, with what you already have. Its not a bad idea if its your first couple of bows as slow work gives you time to learn and digest the process. Rushing is a bad idea when learning.
Hamish
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My hatchet seems to be doing ok. :P
I'm getting the rough blank now. I already have the boo cut out to the correct dimensions, but getting the ipe crafted into a bow blank ready for gluing is tough.
Thanks for the heads up on the dust mask :)
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If you are building a bow with no reflex you should glue it up before reducing next time
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Just be cautious, Ipe can tear out in big and/or long chunks if your not.
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I wouldn't even have started!
Are you trying to reduce it down to where you can do a glue-up with it?
If so I'd find a good local furniture makers and get them to rough it out.
Same if you are trying to get a surface dead flat for a glue-up - ask them to run it through a drum sander.
There is zero chance i'd waste my time trying to get slats ready for a glue-up by hand....no way! As mentioned ipe dusk is a killer.
Really? I have flattened Ipe with no trouble with just coarse sandpaper stuck to a board.
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So best to glue up the laminate before starting work...for future reference?
Save starting a new thread, what are the rough dimensions for an English longbow pulling 100lb at 31?
I've gone for 1.5 width tapering down to 1/2 at width, 1.25 down to 1/2 at depth. Now I'm thinking this may result in a much heavier bow, as ipe is so heavy. :o
75 ntn too :)
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I've worked Ipe down with hand tools on a couple of bows. Draw knife and a nicolson #49, made a pyramid bow and am working on another. The first broke, not because of my tools but because I backed it with what I thought was white oak that turned out to be red oak, but I digress.
What I did learn is that you can do it, and it's not to bad, but you better wear gloves! My wife had to fish probably two dozen splinters out of my mitts afterwards, especially after rasping down the belly profile and getting the sides even. Like tiny little steel wires embedded in my skin.
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100# draw weight, how many bows have you built?
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Two laminate longbows.
Now want a warbow/heavy longbow.
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I have tried to make 7 ipe board bows. I have tried the drawknife, spokeshave, stanley shurform, nicholson rasp, ferrier rasps on ipe. I try to avoid any angled blade (spokeshave, drawknife) as they can rip huge chunks if they hit interlocking grain sections. The stanley shurform seems to be take forever with ipe, so i do not use it. The rasps and sanders have become my best friends with ipe. I use the bandsaw for roughout now that I have one. I enjoy the hand tools but the bandsaw makes the roughing out too easy and fun. I personally love ipe. It makes extremely functional and beautiful bows if you have selected a good piece of wood.
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I use a Dewalt hand power planner for tillering and profiling. No dust!!! just small chips. Eats ipe!! My favorite power tool for making board bows!!! cheers fiddler49
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I wouldn't even have started!
Are you trying to reduce it down to where you can do a glue-up with it?
If so I'd find a good local furniture makers and get them to rough it out.
Same if you are trying to get a surface dead flat for a glue-up - ask them to run it through a drum sander.
There is zero chance i'd waste my time trying to get slats ready for a glue-up by hand....no way! As mentioned ipe dusk is a killer.
Really? I have flattened Ipe with no trouble with just coarse sandpaper stuck to a board.
Yes really. I could also flatten it with sandpaper but I have a drum sander. Trust me you/I can't do as good a job by hand :) It takes about 5/10 mins to prepare a set of lams with it AND they are perfect. If you must do it by hand sandpaper stuck to thick GLASS is the way to go.
As for those dimensions.....100#@31.....75 ntn - 1 1/8ths wide x 1 inch thick at the handle. Keep the width the same for 4 inches either side of handle. Then taper into 3/4 inch 8 inch from the nocks. Then into 1/2 at the nocks. Thickness should be a straight line taper from 1 inch at the handle to 1/2 at the tip.
The dimensions you have given would make a 200# bow....seriously!
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I cut my ipe down to width with a table saw then band saw it to 1/4 inch and then I trade a quart of molasses that I make to a local cabinet maker to run it through his planner to 1/8 inch works great but I've learned after my first bow blew up and took a price of brass and band sawed it and put a hacksaw blade in it to make a groove scraper sow the epoxy will hold better no problems
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I wouldn't even have started!
Are you trying to reduce it down to where you can do a glue-up with it?
If so I'd find a good local furniture makers and get them to rough it out.
Same if you are trying to get a surface dead flat for a glue-up - ask them to run it through a drum sander.
There is zero chance i'd waste my time trying to get slats ready for a glue-up by hand....no way! As mentioned ipe dusk is a killer.
Really? I have flattened Ipe with no trouble with just coarse sandpaper stuck to a board.
Yes really. I could also flatten it with sandpaper but I have a drum sander. Trust me you/I can't do as good a job by hand :) It takes about 5/10 mins to prepare a set of lams with it AND they are perfect. If you must do it by hand sandpaper stuck to thick GLASS is the way to go.
As for those dimensions.....100#@31.....75 ntn - 1 1/8ths wide x 1 inch thick at the handle. Keep the width the same for 4 inches either side of handle. Then taper into 3/4 inch 8 inch from the nocks. Then into 1/2 at the nocks. Thickness should be a straight line taper from 1 inch at the handle to 1/2 at the tip.
The dimensions you have given would make a 200# bow....seriously!
You haven't seen my glue surfaces. >:D however I'm trying to let people know the minimal things they need. It doesn't help much if you make it seem like a new bowyer needs a full shop before they can get anything done.
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:) True, I wasn't meaning to be derogatory or anything.
And I agree with what you are saying, it certainly is possible I just mean there is no fun in flattening ipe by hand >:D so why not make use of tools that can do the work in a few minutes, even if you don't have them yourself then it's likely there is a shop somewhere nearby that will.
Anybody who flattens ipe laminates entirely with hand tools deserves my respect, a pat on the back and a cool drink!
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I like hand planes for ipe, and scrapers. I draw my profile, cut it. Then true it up with a block plane. Then I use it as a template for the bamboo. Trace around it, cut out the boo then thin it with hand planes and a melt sander or sanding block with 50 grit.
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melt sander?
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Belt.
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My ipe is all squared up and that, is is just cutting out the template of the rough bow that is taking time. Frustrating as I have limited patience by virtue :(
Picture of the rough materials before I started, you can see how deep the thing is
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I have cut away the excess belly material on pieces like that with either a circular saw, a handsaw and a hatchet. Really not that difficult although the handsaw is a bit time consuming.
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Ya know buddys are a great resource, maybe a friend or a friend of a friend has a tablesaw to rip the thickness down
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I'm using the hand saw :(
At the middle, I am going for 1 1/4 wide, and 1 inch depth. 74 NTN.
Should that make a bow of around 90lbs @ 30?
:)
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Cut down on the width.
1 1/8th is plenty width. You could even make this bow with only 1 inch width at the handle.
I've made 3 or 4 elb's over 100# with ipe at 1 inch wide handles. Granted they were almost as thick as wide at the center.
I'm sure I gave you dimensions earlier.
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Still sawing away!
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I picked up a farriers rasp at a local farm supply for about $15. It has become my favorite go to tool for roughing and shaping bows. The one I have has a rough side that really hogs off wood, and a "fine" side that hogs off a little less. I used it on my hickory backed ipe ELB, and it worked the wood really well. I used the rasp almost exclusively on the belly, and only switched to a scraper for the final tooling. As others have mentioned wear gloves, and a dust mask.
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On roughing out IPE bows:
There are many different species of woods which are tagged "IPE". Both IPE boards I've used would tear out in a heartbeat when a draw knife or spokeshave was used. Worse yet direction of the cutting didn't seem to matter much. If you lack a bandsaw, a fast and relatively cheap way to rough out such wood is to carefully wielded 4.5" angle grinder fitted with a 36 grit flap. It eats through wood very quickly. I do it outdoors, wear a decent dust respirator and blow myself down with a leaf blower, throw the clothes in the washer then shower afterwards. Tillering is then with alternate use of rasps and scrapers. A tip for marking the dark oily stuff: smooth the surface with a scraper, scribe the line, rub with chalk and then wipe off chalk across the scribed line.
c.d.
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I don't know, i guess ipe don't bother me i work it like any other bowwood, bandsaw and farriors rasp, the less aggressive side, seems to reduce just like any other wood
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I don't know, i guess ipe don't bother me i work it like any other bowwood, bandsaw and farriors rasp, the less aggressive side, seems to reduce just like any other wood
I've had some that would simply make my new 45.00 rasp that ate other woods for breakfast, skip and barely make a mark.
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Yea you can really tell how tough it is by how fast it dulls a cabinet scraper.