Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Comancheria on December 02, 2014, 06:18:07 pm
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...the Uncertain--a detective story.
The GOOD: I run a few head of cattle on a pasture that belonged to my Great Grandfather. My 90 year old Aunt has 243 acres adjoining that land. She and my Mother (her 90-year old twin), when shown a half-decayed Horse Apple, remembered such a tree near a house they had lived in during the Depression--the foundations of which are on my Aunt's place. I asked the guy who runs our cattle and he said there was a "Bodark" but he thought it might have been pushed down during a partition fence build.
The BETTER: I found it and it is good sized--10 to 14 inches in diameter near the base.
The BAD: it was, in fact, dozed down two or three years ago. The bottom 3 feet are obscured in a ball of roots and dirt. No fruit or leaves, but the ID was positive. Though inexperienced, I thought I recognized the bark. Then I saw the golden color of the roots. I had no chainsaw, but was able to take off a couple of 2-inch branches with my trusty Scandinavian Forest Axe. And the inside was as gold and exciting looking as the first nuggets the 49ers found in their pans.
The UNCERTAIN: I have heard of course, that Osage can lie outside for a while. I am a little worried, though, having found worm holes on the very small branches I cut off to take home. In January I can get back with a chainsaw, start wading through tje brush pile, and see what can be salvaged. At best, I think I have a shot at a couple of straight trunks between 8 and 12 inches thick and 6-8 feet in length. We shall see.
In other news, the whole area is grown up in huge clumps of Youpon Holly.
Best Regards,
Russ
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I wouldnt worry too much about the worms. They normaly dont go deep enough to ruin a whole stave,but will make you chase deeper ino the heartwood.
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I wouldnt worry too much about the worms. They normaly dont go deep enough to ruin a whole stave,but will make you chase deeper ino the heartwood.
+1
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Interesting--the branch I retrieved was about 2 1/2 inches thick and I counted around 20
Rings in the heartwood and that many or more of sapwood. This branch was fairly far up on the tree. Has anyone noticed any relationship between the heartwood quality of the major trunks and branches on the one hand and that of small branches on the other hand?
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So, the only osage I ever harvested in Utah, I took from a tree that had fallen over into another tree ina windstorm (we get 150 mpf winds out of the canyons some winters) It had been there so long the branches had grown together, so I walked up and cut it 2' above the rootball, and freed the trunk 6' plus above that. The rest of the tree had stayed there.
It had sat there so long that the bark was long gone and ants had eaten some sapwood. The surface wood was starting to weather like a cedar fence. But, it only had little checks, and the wood was beautiful and sound as can be in the heart. The deepest I had to chase was the second heartwood ring down.
Osage is amazing stuff.
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My guess, your fine. The smaller branches can have a higher percentage of sap wood. The worms shouldn't have gone to deep into the heart wood.
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Being down for a couple of years shouldn't hurt it to much. You might loose the outer few rings from checks and worm damage. I cut this tree that was laying in a dry creek bed for at least 5 years. Ozzy took one of the staves from it and made a fine hunting bow. He killed an 8 point buck with it last year.
(http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r55/clintanders/SDC11427.jpg)
The bugs didn't go very deep
(http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r55/clintanders/SDC11433.jpg)
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I can't count how many bows I've made from long dead downed on the ground,or standing dead osage...only one way to know,and that's to give it a try ;)
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Good news. Outlaw, i will learn how to upload ova to the site at some point. Those logs look like they have almost no sapwood at all.
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I can't count how many bows I've made from long dead downed on the ground,or standing dead osage...only one way to know,and that's to give it a try ;)
I remember one that you presented to the Host at Moontree I, that was a fine bow. :) ;)
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awesome story and good info. thank you.
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Here is the picture of Comancheria's osage tree. From what I can see from the picture it looks like the bark runs pretty straight. That is a nice straight trunk section in the center.
(http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r55/clintanders/zz.jpg)
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Had a lot of great luck with dead osage myself. I always take it and ask questions later. Most of the time you can work around worm holes and bad checks. Worst case scenario it makes great firewood. And also those limbs with high ring counts make some nice bows.
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Well, I could be wrong but that doesn't look like osage to me. Being on the ground for a while could change the way typical osage bark looks. Osage roots are not golden colored, they are very bright red/orange like a pumpkin.
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Thank you for posting that, Outlaw. I am currently operating with only an iPhone, and everything is a huge hassle, but I will eventually get to where I can post my own photos. Then everyone wll be able to thrill to my first board bows.😊
The trunk looked pretty good to my own semi-educated eye as well. When I salvage the stuff I will let you know. Again, for the opinions.
Russ
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Eric, I'm pretty sure its osage. Here is the picture of the limb he cut from it.
(http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r55/clintanders/Bows%202014/zzzzz.jpeg)
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The only problems I've run into on osage that had been dozed was it it was stubborn and hard to push the dozer might twist the tree causing the wood to sepperate between growth rings or if you are in an area that get hard freezes moisture can get down in the checks and do the same thing , but if you can get a log or two out of it it's defiantly worth a try .
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Thanks, Poggins. I think the last te we had a really hard freeze in this area was 1983--no joke!
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Also, I decided to put the water test into effect--took one of my Mom's crystal glasses with about 8 ounces of cold water inside. Went outside and chipped off quite a few chips of heartwood. Within literally 5 minutes, it was turning golden colored. Took the chips out and showed my Mom her glass--saying I had just taken a good whiz in it. I am still alive--but just barely.
Russ
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you be careful when sawing a tree that a bulldozer has pushed out. usually there is a-lot pressure on limbs and when sawing will sometime make them fly back from the pressure being pushed together and break a leg.
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Understood, Dean and thanks. I have had that happen with the limbs of huge Bald Cypress, fallen across the river while canoe race training. This one seems to be pretty vanilla.
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Yep, definitely osage.
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Eric,
Also, I probably did not describe the root colors very well. They were not pumpkin-colored and have been sticking up in the air for a whole, but looking at a snap I took of them, I do see a lot of light reddish hue.
Russ
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Nothing beats the color in that dead standing osage. I have a nice set of biklets that'll be a takedown hopefully soon
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Finally got to the point of getting back to the ranch and working with this already-downed tree. Thought I would drag it out of the root ball it shared with a big downed post oak. Turned out the root ball was about 2 cubic yards of sandy loam, Osage roots, and broken oak fragments. So I spent about 3 hours with pick and shovel, then ruined a perfectly good 20 inch chainsaw blade cutting off limbs and roots covered with sand. In the end, the faith I have always had in Stihl Chainsaws was justified. And I now have a higher regard for Ram 4WD trucks. There turned out to be three trunks, one only about 5 inches to 3 inches thick, and two that were closer to an average of 8 inches thick and maybe 20 feet long. Quite a number of bends, and all of them split at the lower trunks. I was able to get a chain on each one and pull it out with 4WD in low gear.
Took pictures, and measurements, sprayed them down with a bunch of RAID, (for what that's worth), and left them in the pasture until I decide how to cut them up for later splitting and get a couple of my grandsons off their pampered butts to help the old man lift them! I will post pics and ask for opinions when I figure out how to do so with this miserable cell phone--(without bothering Clint or Bubby).😊
All in all, I estimate there is about half a ton or more of OO on the ground, and hopefully a couple of bows. But I expect some twist and the need for steaming techniques not yet in my list of competencies.
Russ
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Glad you are getting that tree out. Send the pics to me an ill post them.
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generally it don't matter how long it's been down or dead(other than possibly getting eaten thru). I had a student bring me a ratty looking standing dead osage that apparently had been dead for a good long while. It looked worthless, till i cut into it. Had to go in a ways, but made two good bows from it (it was only about 5" diameter). I made another bow from a fence post i found lying on the ground in a grove i my subdivision....easily cut over 75 years ago, and on the ground for at least 10 years or so. Bois d arc is amazing stuff for sure in that way!!
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Thanks, Clint. The pics did not turn out as well as I had hoped. Somehow I fat fingered the iPhone and the last batch came out black and white! I'll send a couple.
K-Hat: I think you are correct that the time on the ground will be OK. Shape--twist, and split trunks at the stumps are going to be the main challenge. Not nearly as pretty as what you found.
Russ
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Cattle and Osage is like a symbiotic relationship, there's gotta be more live standing Osage in the area. Cattle help with seed dispersal and don't eat the saplings for some some reason ;D nice find and hope you get,more!
Tracy
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Thanks, Tracy. I had not heard that about cattle spreading the seeds around. And Lord knows, cattle will eat anything--when they are hungry enough. And there have been cattle on that place since the 1830 s--and before that, now that I think about it. I think the problem is that we are on the extreme southern range of the species. Between my Mom's place, my cousins', and mine, I have a lot more acres to search, but I have only found the one. Maybe in late Spring or Summer when the apples are showing on the tree.
Which brings us back to that lucky K-Hat: Leases a place, walks out in his back yard, sees a perfect, straight tree--eighty feet tall and seven feet thick--and his Lamdlord says "Sure! Cut that dog down!" Did I mention I am jealous?😊
Russ
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lol Russ I wish it was ALL THAT, but I WAS lucky on this find. I've been obviously facebooking too much.... I was looking for the "like" button for your last post ::)
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K-Hat: I am often guilty of hijacking my own thread, but you just hit one of my funny bones. As a
Crotchety Old Man, I do text--but avoid social media like the Bubonic Plague. Don't want to get political, but I am still struggling with the notion that the U.S. Department of Defense had its Twitter account hacked! The source of my amazement is that the DOD TWEETS! My Lord, MacArthur and Patton are spinning in their graves!
Russ