Primitive Archer

Main Discussion Area => Flintknapping => Topic started by: jayman448 on November 30, 2014, 02:30:47 am

Title: noob questions
Post by: jayman448 on November 30, 2014, 02:30:47 am
I can not for the life of me thin a flake or create long pressure or bopper flakes. what could I be doing wrong? I don't cook my rock. does this have anything to do with it?
Title: Re: noob questions
Post by: knapperboy on November 30, 2014, 02:35:38 am
That could be some of it. More likely you are just not building up enough pressure to drive a long flake. Have you tried obsidian or glass? That would be the best starting place. What kind of rock are you trying to knap? This could also be some troube trying rock that is too hard for yourself.
Title: Re: noob questions
Post by: jayman448 on November 30, 2014, 03:55:11 pm
To be honest I dont know what it is. I just knkw the guys at my archery club knap it. I can get ugly chunks off but its very hard to get a decent flake.
Title: Re: noob questions
Post by: JoJoDapyro on November 30, 2014, 03:58:12 pm
Practice, practice, practice. Some here make it look easy. I have made leaps and bounds from the beginning. The only way to get better is to keep at it. How long is your flaker, and what sized bopper are you using?
Title: Re: noob questions
Post by: jayman448 on November 30, 2014, 05:25:23 pm
Its just a little hand flaker.for percussion ive used stones or the end of a deer antler. I really dont have much gear.
Title: Re: noob questions
Post by: JoJoDapyro on November 30, 2014, 05:26:40 pm
How long is the flaker? I realized lately that my pressure flaker is too short, you get more torque out of a longer flaker.
Title: Re: noob questions
Post by: Chippintuff on November 30, 2014, 05:36:16 pm
There are numerous possible answers as to why your flakes are running short. If they are going in and hinging out or breaking off, you may not be putting enough energy into the strike. If they are feathering out short, make sure that the striking platform is decidedly to the flake side of the center line and strike more into the rock than across the rock. In other words, put the force of the strike more in the direction of (but not exactly in the direction of) the flake path. Show a few detailed photos, and we can give more specific advice.

WA
Title: Re: noob questions
Post by: jayman448 on November 30, 2014, 06:38:09 pm
Jojo. My flaker is maybe five or so inches long. Ill send some pics soon.
Title: Re: noob questions
Post by: jayman448 on December 02, 2014, 09:27:14 pm
sorry it took so long to post pics.
pic one is my gear... all of my gear plus a sample of the rock I knapp.

the rest are of a glass head I made last night. notice the poor flake pattern. I can not for the life of me get long thinning flakes
Title: Re: noob questions
Post by: knapperboy on December 02, 2014, 11:01:21 pm
It looks kinda like you've got the wrong angle. Like you're pushing to hard downward and not hard enough outward. Try to find a mentor to watch you knap. That would be the best way to fix the problem
Title: Re: noob questions
Post by: jayman448 on December 02, 2014, 11:33:23 pm
unfortunately there is not really a knapping community around here. all the other guys here are no better off XD
Title: Re: noob questions
Post by: knapperboy on December 03, 2014, 02:16:56 am
Do you have access to YouTube? Tons of great Videos that will help you get along. Of course there's nothing better than just practicing.
Title: Re: noob questions
Post by: jayman448 on December 03, 2014, 03:20:28 am
I do have access to youtube. I just really need help thinning. I have thown away so many useable flakes because I can not thin em. but you said more pressure inwards? ill try my best. do I need to knapp the edge in a certain way? (like I have never been shown anything and am kinda flying by the seat of my pants
Title: Re: noob questions
Post by: JoJoDapyro on December 03, 2014, 09:04:08 am
Don't throw them away. At some point you will be able to thin them. I have noticed an improvement in my own in a few short months. Don't give up.
Title: Re: noob questions
Post by: StevenT on December 03, 2014, 09:57:24 am
This may sound kind of strange, bur for a bit anyway, stop trying to make a point. Instead, take a bunch of flakes or just some glass, and practice setting up platforms and driving flakes. The object is just to practice, trying different things and at some point you are going to have a couple "Wow" flakes. Build on what you did and just keep working on your skills. Not having to worry about messing up a point your working on will make a big difference. After a lot of trial and error, things start to come together. And like the others said, if you don't have someone around that can help you out, hit the YouTube videos. You can learn a ton watching them.
Title: Re: noob questions
Post by: knapperboy on December 03, 2014, 08:27:09 pm
Jayman, what I am trying to say is use pressure but up with your thighs and not your arms so much. It's hard to tell exactly what you're doing without seeing it but it looks like a similar problem I had when I started knapping. To see what I mean look at some YouTube and watch the placement of the flaker and the movement of the arm of the knapper. Hope that helps.
Title: Re: noob questions
Post by: jayman448 on December 03, 2014, 08:48:11 pm
Jayman, what I am trying to say is use pressure but up with your thighs and not your arms so much. It's hard to tell exactly what you're doing without seeing it but it looks like a similar problem I had when I started knapping. To see what I mean look at some YouTube and watch the placement of the flaker and the movement of the arm of the knapper. Hope that helps.
could you clarify as to how I use pressure from my thighs? my flaker is much too short for the indirect percussion method ive seen on allergichobbit's youtube page.
Title: Re: noob questions
Post by: Tower on December 03, 2014, 08:54:10 pm
  Knapperboy's right.   It's kinda her to explain.   I only use direct pressure, but I use my legs for pressure.   With & without the use of an  Ishi stick.  But your angle may be too steep.   We would have to see you knap
Title: Re: noob questions
Post by: jayman448 on December 03, 2014, 09:15:37 pm
I hold the material in my heel of my hand with a leather pad and just push with the flaker.. like I said total noob
Title: Re: noob questions
Post by: Tower on December 03, 2014, 09:36:28 pm
Knap On.   It will all work out after the tonnage phase is over.  😀
Title: Re: noob questions
Post by: le0n on December 03, 2014, 09:43:17 pm
i would suggest a lower angle of attack with a close eye to existing platforms and desired platforms.

i marked up one of your photographs:
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-e-bdcE07AUc/VH-_EImagSI/AAAAAAAAHqE/mtn0Y9ChLsY/w1323-h992-no/platforms_03.jpg)
these perspective arrows are pointing in toward the center of the head (not downward toward your thumb). it's a little hard to portray this in 2-dimensions, but i tried anyway to show the method on your actual piece.

if you grab that same piece you should be able to match the platforms in the photograph and thin as needed. the photographed edge was a little blury, so i may have mis-interpreted a few platforms.

practice on spacing your initial flakes with an insight as to what the resulting platform would look like. note the surface before and after each flake result and commit it to memory. the resulting platforms are worked on the flip side.

and as previously stated, just work these platforms on bit and pieces of scrap material. when it starts becoming predictable, move back onto one of your preforms.
Title: Re: noob questions
Post by: jayman448 on December 03, 2014, 09:47:45 pm
hey that's really cool. thanks so much for that pic
Title: Re: noob questions
Post by: Tower on December 03, 2014, 10:15:46 pm
Have you tried a continuous platform?
Title: Re: noob questions
Post by: jayman448 on December 03, 2014, 10:24:34 pm
... a what???? I am an absolute noob. I literally have no idea what im doing, and less of an ide what u r talking about XD
Title: Re: noob questions
Post by: Chippintuff on December 03, 2014, 11:41:31 pm
When you get a grip on the platforms as marked, you will be well on your way. When you pop the first flake off, if it is short, you have placed too much pressure perpendicular to the flake path and not enough pressure in exactly the direction you want the flake to travel. Watch closely and determine whether the preform is twisting in your hand when the pressure begins building up. It takes a lot of strength to do good pressure flaking, and can take a lot of practice to develop that strength. A lot of pressure flakers complain about sore hands, wrists, forearms, elbows and even shoulders when they are in the first few months of knapping. Don't feel bad about asking questions. We all have asked, and we all have been where you are.

WA
Title: Re: noob questions
Post by: knapperboy on December 03, 2014, 11:56:21 pm
Great replies and thanks Tower for clarifying for me. The only thing I can add is try to grindo your platforms again and follow your ridges down and the glass point shown in the picture should be thinned out a great deal. Place the end of the flaker against your thigh and push inwards on the point. Don't try to drive a flake at first only build pressure. Once the pressure has been built up give a little flick of the wrist and you should drive a long flake. Keep the angle of the flake shallow. Try to push inward not down. Hope that helps.
Title: Re: noob questions
Post by: Stringman on December 04, 2014, 10:01:53 am
And when you get all of that right, the point snaps...  :o

This is a journey, so enjoy the ride and don't get overly frustrated. Keep postin pics.
Title: Re: noob questions
Post by: GlisGlis on December 04, 2014, 02:37:28 pm
Hey Jayman448 have a look at this link:
http://flintknappinginfo.webstarts.com/uploads/BasicConcepts.pdf
I think it was allready linked in the past here as a valid reference for flintknapping
Title: Re: noob questions
Post by: Parnell on December 04, 2014, 04:19:32 pm
And when you get all of that right, the point snaps...  :o

This is a journey, so enjoy the ride and don't get overly frustrated. Keep postin pics.

Break lots of rock.  Don't get frustrated.  Work on your tools over time.  Find a teacher.  Break lots of rock.  Don't get frustrated. ;D
Title: Re: noob questions
Post by: Tower on December 04, 2014, 04:21:46 pm
Don't be scared to break them.   After all it's just a rock.