Primitive Archer

Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Comancheria on November 09, 2014, 12:43:21 pm

Title: Rasps: Off the Shelf or the Best:
Post by: Comancheria on November 09, 2014, 12:43:21 pm
Just a matter of curiosity:  do any of you upgrade to the semi-hand-made Nicholson 49 and 50 models at upwards of $70.00?  Or beyond that, the hand-made French jobbies at double that price?  As I say, just curious--I could not affor to myself.

Best regards,

Russ
Title: Re: Rasps: Off the Shelf or the Best:
Post by: osage outlaw on November 09, 2014, 01:11:51 pm
I use a heavy duty farriers rasp, shinto rasp, an aggressive half round rasp for the handle and fades, and some smoother rasps to clean it up.  The shinto was the most expensive rasp that I have bought.
Title: Re: Rasps: Off the Shelf or the Best:
Post by: Eric Krewson on November 09, 2014, 01:24:20 pm
I have had a 49 and 50 for most of my bow making journey, worth the money for me. You can search around the net and find some good deals on these rasps. I saw a #49 on sale for $27 the other day on one of the tool sites. I bought a US made NOS #50 for $20 shipped off eBay a couple months ago.
Title: Re: Rasps: Off the Shelf or the Best:
Post by: Jodocus on November 09, 2014, 02:08:19 pm


I use these and like them a lot, I've tried more expensive ones that cost about ten times as much, but they weren't that much better.

Title: Re: Rasps: Off the Shelf or the Best:
Post by: TimBo on November 09, 2014, 02:40:51 pm
I like the Torges rasp, but I use my Shinto a lot too.  I have never used a good farrier's rasp, just an old nasty dull one (it wasn't that great!).
Title: Re: Rasps: Off the Shelf or the Best:
Post by: missilemaster on November 09, 2014, 03:05:34 pm
Look up the shinto saw rasp. Has quite a following here.
Title: Re: Rasps: Off the Shelf or the Best:
Post by: wizardgoat on November 09, 2014, 03:11:41 pm
I got my farriers rasp for 40-50$, I feel it's a must have
Title: Re: Rasps: Off the Shelf or the Best:
Post by: bubby on November 09, 2014, 03:34:49 pm
I have a top end farriers rasp, bellotta, yeah it's French, $22 at a real feed store not a tracker supply, amazingly sharp and around 5 different degrees of aggressiveness depending on which one you get
Title: Re: Rasps: Off the Shelf or the Best:
Post by: Comancheria on November 09, 2014, 06:58:56 pm
Thanks.  I never had any idea that there was such a quality difference.  I mean, a rasp has to be one of the least glamorous tools on the planet.  But for now making--one of the most important.  Based on your comments, I will not rule out the 49 and 50, and will look into the Shinto. 
Title: Re: Rasps: Off the Shelf or the Best:
Post by: bushboy on November 09, 2014, 07:31:07 pm
Yes I vote for the shinto rasps.the Japanese know a thing or two about wood working tools.
Title: Re: Rasps: Off the Shelf or the Best:
Post by: DLH on November 09, 2014, 07:57:45 pm
Bubby do you have experience with the half round bellota?
Title: Re: Rasps: Off the Shelf or the Best:
Post by: bubby on November 09, 2014, 08:30:27 pm
Bubby do you have experience with the half round bellota?




No I don't but if it's as good as the rest I can't see how you can go wrong
Title: Re: Rasps: Off the Shelf or the Best:
Post by: DLH on November 09, 2014, 09:23:37 pm
Thanks I may try one I don't know how aggressive the half round rasps are but they are cheap enough to try about 10-15 bucks.
Title: Re: Rasps: Off the Shelf or the Best:
Post by: OsageWhisper on November 10, 2014, 05:13:36 am
From a newbie's experience so far the Shinto rasp has worked extremely well.
Title: Re: Rasps: Off the Shelf or the Best:
Post by: mikekeswick on November 10, 2014, 05:34:02 am
Shinto's work well whilst they last but i've killed five....I treated myself to 3 Auriou rasps....they are an absolute dream to use and seeing as they last SO much longer than mass produced stuff they are well worth the money. As with any tool the more you use it the more you appreciate quality. Auriou rasps cut with minimal pressure. What you are paying for is that the teeth are hand raised in an almost random pattern - opposed to a machine made rasp where all the teeth are basically in lines. The machine made rasps will always leave a rougher surface (same tooth depth and pressure) due to this. After using my finest rasps one or two 'wipes' with a sharp scraper and the surface is perfect. I can't do this with a shinto. Mind i'm not knocking shinto's they are pretty good. Horses for courses.
Title: Re: Rasps: Off the Shelf or the Best:
Post by: Pat B on November 10, 2014, 09:56:06 am
My first rasps were either flea market finds, inherited or a 4 in 1 I bought. Farriers rasps are great and if you know a farrier he will probably give you a used one. I think you can buy one new for about $20.
 You don't have to break the bank to get started. Once you decide you are hooked, then you can splurge on better tools.
Title: Re: Rasps: Off the Shelf or the Best:
Post by: Badger on November 10, 2014, 10:15:47 am
  My Torges rasp wore out after about 2 bows. I can get at least a couple of years out of a nicholson 49 and still cutting very well. I use a 1/2 round metal file after the nicholson and then the scraper. I don't use rasps for tillering only when smooting a tear out or working around a belly knot. I use them mainly in the handles and outer limb areas also rounding the edges on a bow.
Title: Re: Rasps: Off the Shelf or the Best:
Post by: Sidmand on November 10, 2014, 10:18:32 am
If you can find a feed shop locally, or a place that sells saddles and such, you can get farriers rasps for less than 20 bucks.  Place down the road from me sells em for 12 dollars each, brand new, and they cut like a dream compared to what I used before.  I started off using the short Nicholson rasp/chisel combo jobbies cause they were cheap, and I remember thinking that was a good deal - I mean I got 4 rasps in a package and I'm sure they will work right?  They sucked, horrible for making bows with, just horrible.  I didn't know how horrible until I got a Nicholson #49 in a trade, I threw those other ones in the trash after using the #49 for about 20 minutes. 

Point being in all that that a good rasp will make your work so much more enjoyable.  You don't have to spend a ton of money, but spend some to get a good farriers rasp or a good cabinet makers rasp.  You won't regret it.
Title: Re: Rasps: Off the Shelf or the Best:
Post by: Drewster on November 10, 2014, 10:41:35 am
Based on my experience, you got some good advice from Pat B and Sidmand.......go for it!
Title: Re: Rasps: Off the Shelf or the Best:
Post by: Comancheria on November 10, 2014, 11:29:39 am
Thanks for the good advice.  Now let's see--feed or saddle shops in rural South Texas.  I might be able to find one or two or a thousand.  😊

How much difference would you say there is between a Nicholson 49 and 50?

Best regards,

Russ
Title: Re: Rasps: Off the Shelf or the Best:
Post by: Pat B on November 10, 2014, 12:51:27 pm
Not much difference that I could see but I did prefer the #49. You should be able to find a used farriers rasp for free or very cheap in your area. It will still be sharp enough for bow making.
After I get to floor tiller I rarely use more than a scraper. I use the rasps for shaping around the handle/fade areas and reducing limb thickness early on.
Title: Re: Rasps: Off the Shelf or the Best:
Post by: George Tsoukalas on November 10, 2014, 02:33:08 pm
Nope. Used a surform for so many bows I can't remember. I alternate it with a scraper-like tool (Swedish push knife held at nearly right angles).
Jawge
Title: Re: Rasps: Off the Shelf or the Best:
Post by: Comancheria on November 10, 2014, 03:47:34 pm
Sorry to hijack my own thread, but the more I read about it on other threads (he said in a raspy voice), the more I worry--not about my ability to remove lots of wood--or even to scrape.  But keeping the right edge on the scraper seems like a real nightmare.  I did see one video that was pretty instructive.
Title: Re: Rasps: Off the Shelf or the Best:
Post by: bradsmith2010 on November 10, 2014, 04:17:25 pm
if you are working osage, ,nicholson will last longer..it is a  good investment
Title: Re: Rasps: Off the Shelf or the Best:
Post by: PaulN/KS on November 10, 2014, 04:26:29 pm
You can send your dull rasps to Boggs tool sharpening and they will come back scary sharp. I've used their services in the past and was very pleased.
Title: Re: Rasps: Off the Shelf or the Best:
Post by: Marc St Louis on November 10, 2014, 05:01:20 pm
I have hand cut files and have cheap files as well.  For rough work I use the cheapos and then switch to the hand cut for a finer finish.
Title: Re: Rasps: Off the Shelf or the Best:
Post by: JoJoDapyro on November 10, 2014, 05:49:44 pm
At one time there was a Bellotta in the trading post. Tyke has a few he gets from a farrier friend. Hit him up if you are looking for one to trade for. I love mine.
Title: Re: Rasps: Off the Shelf or the Best:
Post by: H Rhodes on November 11, 2014, 12:23:51 am
Farrier's rasp - twenty bucks or so from tractor supply.  It does everything I need for a rasp to do.  The rough side hogs off wood quickly.  Alternating between the fine side of the farrier's rasp and the scraper during tillering is my way.    I use a sharp pocket knife for a scraper for the finish tillering.   
Title: Re: Rasps: Off the Shelf or the Best:
Post by: mikekeswick on November 11, 2014, 03:02:03 am
Raising a strong burr on a scraper is worthy of an article in it's own right. Just like rasps there is a world of difference in a properly prepared scraper compared to a quicky. I suggest buying Dean Torges book about osage bow making. He explains all this stuff.
Title: Re: Rasps: Off the Shelf or the Best:
Post by: Comancheria on November 11, 2014, 02:59:39 pm
Well, I dropped a few (actually a lot) of bucks on various rasps, scrapers, a draw knife (I know, I know 😀), a couple of tillering strings, and a burnishing tool I don't know how to use yet.  I have an unused tool box from home Despot already equipped with various saws, hammers, chisels, and what not that will serve as my bow-box.

I will order that book to go with the growing library!
Title: Re: Rasps: Off the Shelf or the Best:
Post by: BrokenArrow on November 11, 2014, 06:52:42 pm
I have one called the Rough Bastard and it is a weapon in itself. I have never seen another one like it.
Title: Re: Rasps: Off the Shelf or the Best:
Post by: Billinthedesert on November 16, 2014, 01:46:31 pm
Found this video on how Auriou makes its rasps:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfQJIJuIbCs
Title: Re: Rasps: Off the Shelf or the Best:
Post by: DC on November 16, 2014, 03:39:47 pm
In the video they quench by slowly dipping the rasp into the water. Does anyone know why they do it slowly rather than just plunging it in like I was taught in high school? Avoiding cracks maybe?
Title: Re: Rasps: Off the Shelf or the Best:
Post by: Comancheria on November 16, 2014, 08:58:32 pm
Bill, what a great video!  Thanks.  Bad news is, the next thing you know, their manufacture will have been moved to the Bumluck region of Some People's Republic and they will be stamped out of melted down Volkswagen keys.😝

Russ
Title: Re: Rasps: Off the Shelf or the Best:
Post by: DLH on November 16, 2014, 11:57:06 pm
I have been looking for a good half round rasp and am considering narex(Czech Republic) pferd(Germany) and ajax (Czech Republic). The ajax is the generic hand cut rasps at lee valley I believe and have seen decent reviews on them they are around 36 dollars an the other two are machine cut and cost about twenty. It's hard to find rasps or files I have read good things about pferd files so I though their rasp would be worth a try. I can't believe they are selling the new lower quality nicholsons for the same price as the old higher quality ones some places stopped selling them because of the quality drop.
Title: Re: Rasps: Off the Shelf or the Best:
Post by: Comancheria on November 17, 2014, 12:13:13 am
I had heard that about the newer Nicholsons but bought a pair anyway, in the hope that, if I use and treat them right, they may outlast me--as I am near seventy and only hope to last until about 110. 😊also, I doubt I will end up building hundreds of bows like some of the folks on this forum!