Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Comancheria on November 05, 2014, 09:49:44 pm
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So let's combine two facts:
First, yours truly, having read everything in sight, is highly sensitive to the recommendation that a first bow should be backed. (I even suspect that, while I build up a little confidence, I will start with a red oak board backed with Sheetrock tape similar to the one in "Backyard Bowyer"). Then on to sinew.
Second, now that you mention sinew, where to get some? Well, the State of Texas has a deer population larger than the human populations of half the states in the Union. So a call to a guy about 40 miles down the road--a guy I don't even know--who runs a wild game processing plant. I drive over, thinking this good old boy will try to have me committed, explain to him what body parts I want and what I will do with them--and come away with about 20 legs. He tells me I can have "...thousands if I want them....". I tell him I want to stay married, so all I will need is about a hundred for this year. (I figure that should keep me warm, hammering and splitting fduring the cold, hard South Texas winter.). So he is sawing off and freezing 100 HIND legs from only big bucks. That should hold me a while.
Now if I can just get the wife to urinate on some Buckskin and chew it, I will be all set for a handle.
Best regards,
Russ
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Follow the tendon up through the knee to get the most length that you can.
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Hey Russ, good luck with the wife ;)
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Good thinking!
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Plenty of people here would love to trade you for some of that sinew, myself included! Get as much as you can, dry it out and store it away
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Me too, send info on how to contact this person.
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I was thinking I will definitely cut out and dry as much as I can get (and handle) this year, dry the unprocessed tendons out completely, then try do even more next year--and share widely. The good news is that our season, including archery, rifle, youth, and special
"Slaughter" (my term) permits, runs over three months.
Osage Outlaw: not sure what your an by going up through the knee--could you elaborate?
Best regards,
Russ
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You can follow the tendon through the knee and find where it attaches to the muscle. It gets you a few extra inches. I can take pictures on the next one we kill. Processing all that sinew gets old quick. I did around 200 legs last season.
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Sounds good there, Comancheria. I did the same thing a few years ago.
A few things to keep in mind:
With all those legs, there's going to be some tendons that will smell pretty "ripe" when you try and dry them out. I recommend that you toss those away and only keep the freshest smelling tendons. The sinew will be stronger as well.
The front-of-the-bone tendons are easier to process than the rear-of-the-bone tendons when you get to the part when you are pounding the dry tendon to soften it enough to separate into strands. If you can get hundreds of legs, you might want to keep only the easiest-to-process tendons. Just something to think about that will save time later.
The skin is difficult to remove from the lower leg. Be prepared for some work.
Good luck with the sinew! I made a video a while back that may help you with the processing:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PmZibFv1Si8&list=UU_Dj6JqOd5Naz6Nguw3c0aQ
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Get some hook blade utility knife blades. They unzip a deer leg better than anything else I have found.
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The hock is the first large joint in the hind leg. The " knee" in animals is actually up almost in their groin.
I doubt you're going to get a game processor to do much more than cut through the hock. They need to leave the tendon above that to hang the carcass from.
Their is no need to remove any skin when getting tendons out. You just need to slit through it in one cut.
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Great video--my thanks. I am having a bit of a struggle though, with the anatomy. I have butchered a number of deer but may be confusing "hock" and "knee". If you start at the ankle, down by the hoof, I think of that as the hock. Then the next joint up (about ten to fourteen inches), I call the knee. This processor is cutting the leg off just above that. Am I losing anything?
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What you are calling the knee is actually the heel. Like Pat said the actual knee is right up by the body. The deer is actually standing on tip toes
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The tendons extend up past the hock for several inches where they blend into the muscles. You are missing some but it's not worth worrying about. The processor is not going to do surgery for you.
Take a close look at a deer leg and you will clearly be able to see the corresponding structures in your own feet.
What we use as sinew is actually what you have between your heel and the ball of your foot. It'd just all condensed into a rounder group of tendons.
In the front leg it's the palm of your hand that corresponds.
The front "knee" is the wrist of a person.
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Got it. Thanks for the lesson!
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You're a lucky guy! I use loads of it and it gets pricey buying it here....
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Next question for the house: I have read various threads and other material about storage. Assuming I decide to put away far more if the stuff than I need for personal use--for trade or to share with those who are more industrious but less fortunate 😊, just cutting out and drying the tendons would be no great effort. But I would prefer just to store and ship the dried tendons without pounding my brain into a bloody pulp. What would be best--just store them dried or vacuum bag and freeze them?
Best regards,
Russ
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Away from dogs and other critters :D
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That's very cool, never underestimate the power of sinew to just disappear if left unattended!
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I've just left mine sitting on the shelf in my shop(no dogs anymore) and it seems fine.
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Same here, DC. Depends on humidity, but my sinew never gets sealed and it stores well (going on 3-4 years for some.)
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jackcrafty,
I watched the bowstring videos too. Those were outstanding as well. I do not hear well, and was viewing on an iPhone, but on the second video, I THINK you said it takes about three tendons for a string. Is that correct?
Taking that particular string, what maximum poundage would you be comfortable pulling? I wonder if anyone has ever tested the tensile strength of a sinew string like yours.
Also, what kind of knot do you use on the non-looped end?.
Best regards,
Russ
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I am willing to bet I could use a machine we have at work to do a tensile test on a sinew string...
Also, I'd back with linen or rawhide instead of the sheetrock tape. It'll look better.
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I don't know about the sinew. It's strong no doubt!
I did a reverse twist on some yucca I got from my brother in laws house. I made a piece about 3' long that had 1 Junction in it. It was my first try at joining like that. I took my string to work and put it on the machine that they test the hoist cables on. We put about 650lbs on it when it started to frey it finally snapped right at 745lbs. With a little practice I think I could get it 1000lbs.
That rawhide is some strong stuff too! Patrick
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Semirelated. You guys know what the deer processors do with all the deer skins? Sell em off, trash em or what? I was thinking maybe I could call around and see if I could pick some up.
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Well, I processed my first batch. Turned out I overestimated--instead of 20 hind legs, I had only 16. My new friend had kept them cold and I iced them down. This afternoon, I faced the problem of processing them without my vegetarian better half, who possesses the olfactory capabilities of a bloodhound, from detecting either the aftermath of the drying tendons. Then it got through to my dull brain--I have a rented boat barn!
So I went over there, took a VERY sharp knife, and went to work. I messed up the first couple, and a couple more down the line-- and am only mildly confident that I did well, but I came away with 11 tendons, approximately 6 to 9 inches in length. There are definitely mice in the shed but I pressed an old, conical wire minnow trap into service, which with mesh about 3/8 inch in size, and the minnow openings squeezed shut, I am confident it will keep the cute, iddy biddy rodents out. I do not plan to pick any more up for about ten days, but learned enough, first time around, to make it worthwhile. Thanks for all your help and if I accumulate enough this season to make them available I will let folks know.
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Correction: Make that mesh 3/16 inch--not 3-8. Any self-respecting mouse could squeeze through nearly a half-inch opening.
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If you follow them up through the knee, or elbow, or ankle or whatever in the world you want to call it you can get lengths up to 18"+ from a whitetail hind leg. Give the hook blade a try. Its quicker and safer than a knife in my opinion.
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I would trade for some also.
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Outlaw: not certain, but I am pretty sure I am not getting access above where you mention. He cuts the ham off and there is a small amount of meat--then going further down, there is the major joint--what I was calling the knee, and then the bone that goes down to the hoof. I am only getting that latter tendon. Are you saying that it turns the corner of the joint and continues up into the meat?
Scottski: Before I trade any, I want to make sure that what I am getting out of the critters has not been damaged and is as long as possible. I will take a look at it in February.
Best regards,
Russ
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eo2TJptuSXI
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Outlaw: not certain, but I am pretty sure I am not getting access above where you mention. He cuts the ham off and there is a small amount of meat--then going further down, there is the major joint--what I was calling the knee, and then the bone that goes down to the hoof. I am only getting that latter tendon. Are you saying that it turns the corner of the joint and continues up into the meat?
Scottski: Before I trade any, I want to make sure that what I am getting out of the critters has not been damaged and is as long as possible. I will take a look at it in February.
Best regards,
Russ
The superficial flexor tendon goes around the outside of the "heel"(hock) and then continues up into the equivalent of the Achilles tendon before blending into the muscle. The portion going around the outside has a flattened cupped portion that looks a bit like a pouch in a sling.
The deeper flexor tendon goes through a sort of channel a bit deeper in the joint and also continues up into the muscle.
Neither of these upper sections will be available if the joint is cut through.
If the cut is a bit higher try pulling on the deep flexor tendon and you will see the tendon visible above the joint pop through the tunnel.
The superficial one is stuck to the outside of the point of the hock and needs to be cut free somewhat. That pouch portion is somewhat more like cartilage and doesn't really want to shred reliably.
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Great video, got it!
Damn, outlaw, next time I have orthopedic issues, I'm hiring you to do the surgery!
Best regards,
Russ
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Actually, the processor had been giving me a leg with quite a bit of the lowest meat on it. But based on my first experiments, I had asked him to cut the legs off below the knee (or hock) joint--up at the dogleg, in other words. Having seen this video and based in your explanations, I called him
tonigjt and asked him to go back to the original way. Man, but this guy is cooperative. I'll guarantee you, at Christmas, a C-note is going to change hands!
Russ
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It has been barely 4 days now, since I harvested my first batch of leg tendons and hung them up to dry in a fine mesh minnow trap with the ends sealed. Checked them this morning and they were dry and hard as rocks. Moreover, they were translucent. In about two weeks, I will be taking a 120 quart ice chest over to pick up a hundred or more. I fully intend to explore the advice about getting a longer run by pulling the tendon around the joint. Tomorrow, I will do the pounding and shredding as the next experiment.
Question: Do you think there is any point where I can safely take them out of mesh storage, seal them in Zip locks and put them in a closed, airless container to keep critters away?
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I keep mine in a plastic gallon coffee can with no problems. I also have some processed sinew in a zip lock bag. Patrick
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I keep mine in a non-airtight plastic bin and don't have any problem with critters. I have some in a ziplock bag but those are very dry and processed. I've had a few that started to smell bad after some months in a sealed bag, so I make sure the tendon is very dry.
And you don't need to seal the ends. :)
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Dragging this up from retirement for the sole purpose of reporting that when things sound to good to be true--they will probably turn out not to be. What started out to be "hundreds"
Has turned into tens. After the trial batch, the processor, when I called him, said to call back this week. I did and he had 15 legs for me--chopped so short I may be lucky to get 6 inch lengths out of them. I have one more shot at the "goldmine" after Christmas.
Best regards,
Russ
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"Thousands" was a word mentioned originally. ;D
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Yep. Part of it was communications. The guy is nice--really nice. He had my phone number but said he threw away a bunch he had been holding for me. And now they have a new procedure, cutting them off below the hock. I'll see what transpires. Maybe next year I'll offer him 50 cents apiece if he will cut them high like my first batch. Ah, well...