Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: jrmeza on October 25, 2014, 01:21:21 pm
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Hello there my fellow primitive archers! I'm pretty knew, so far I have one bow under my belt that broke on the first day. Honestly I wasn't trying with that one, I rushed through it just to get the feel for the trade, it was just some random tree in my back yard that I did not know the species of.
Now this I would like to call my first real attempt at making a bow because I actually found a primo osage tree and got a 6 foot straight log.
This bow came out rather thin, I made a post about that concern a while back, but I think it has come out rather nicely. The fact that it is thin I think is made up by the fact that its pretty long, its 68 inches, tip to tip. Now I have it backed with 100% linen because it was quite a snakey bow, with some side knots, making it impossible (at least for a noobie like me) to keep a perfect unviolated ring on the back.
So here is a picture of the bow so you can understand the bendy/knotty nature of it.
(http://i62.tinypic.com/2qla8no.jpg)
And without further wait, here is a picture of how the tiller is going.
(http://i58.tinypic.com/290u4w5.jpg)
Is this ready to finish and string up???? If it helps, each brick in the background is 2.75 inches tall. I haven't bought a string yet to keep from hastily stringing a poorly tillered bow ::)
Also, from what you know about it being 68 inches long and snakey, is that how far it needs to bend to full draw (maybe 28 or 29 inches)? or do I need to get it to a point where I feel more comfortable bending it even further? Cause the bend in the picture is about how far I will go without feeling nervous of cracking.
Thank you so much community, y'all are the best crowd!
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The right side looks alittle stiff but I also think you should change up your tillering jig because it seems to be blocking the fades from being seen
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How about now?
(http://i61.tinypic.com/2mdl89c.jpg)
I am not so skilled at tillering, so it is hard for me to tell exactly where I need to take off at.
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It looks pretty good really an unbraced pic would help to lol
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Could you show us a picture of the unbraced bow? We need to see the bend in relation to the unbraced profile (deflex and/or reflex areas).
You are ready for a full brace height. If you don't string her soon, you will come in underweight.
Your left midlimb probably needs some scraping.
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Looks like you are on a long string. Get a regular bow string and get it braced. The long string will give you a false reading.
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Here is the unbraced pic y'all were asking for, sorry it took so long, I took a trip away from the house.
(http://i57.tinypic.com/xdtvdw.jpg)
DarkSoul, can you describe to me why I need to string it soon? What do you mean by "soon". liiike if I dilly dally and wait a couple weaks to string it, something will happen to the wood while it is sitting? Or you mean if I continue on with tillering without referencing to an actual bow string, I will likely take off too much and make it underweight?
Sorry for the naive questions, I really am pretty fresh out of the water when it comes to bowyering!
Again thank y'all so much for the help, it's you guys who really make this hobby and trade so fun!
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The bow will look different on a long string than a proper length string because the limbs behave differently on the long string. To long on a long string into tillering is not ideal (for me anyway). Get it strung up to near proper brace height when It's bending that far anyway on a long string. I don't want to speak for DarkSoul but I can assume this is what he meant and I agree.
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After looking at the unbraced photo, I think your tiller is very good. That right limb has a couple of spots of reflex in it and one the other way. So, you have it about right. The average curve through the zigzags is about like the left limb.
So, yes, get a proper string on it and continue.
Jiim Davis
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DarkSoul, can you describe to me why I need to string it soon? [...] Or you mean if I continue on with tillering without referencing to an actual bow string, I will likely take off too much and make it underweight?
Yes, that's what I meant :)
You should use the long string only in the very first stage of tillering. As soon as the tiller looks good at about 5" of tip deflection (not draw length!) your bow is basically ready to be braced.
The tiller is looking good! Get it to full brace height now, and check the tiller again.
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(http://i60.tinypic.com/2yl673q.jpg)
Hey guys, so I finally got a string on it! and to be honest, it looks pretty spot on to my noobie eyes, especially when i observe the angle at which the limbs intersect the grid of bricks behind it. each limb crosses the concrete line at almost the exact same point, which is astounding to me because the unbraced bow is pretty wavey. So my questions are....
1. Can I finish this stick already!????
2. There are still some angles/corners on the belly of the bow from doing the rough tillering with a belt sander, should I try to hand sand those out knowing that the bow is already dangerously thin yet tillered? or just leave them there to avoid possible injury? (keep in mind I'm no pro yet). I am just concerned that I'll screw up the tiller just to buff out some aesthetic flaws and end up taking off too much and screw up the whole thing.
Thanks to all you wise bow-men!...or bow-women if they are out there!
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I would say you have a weak spot on the left limb, mid-limb. The right looks similar to it but it may be the whoopty doo causing it to look that way. Take a 4 inch straight edge and run it along the belly on the left limb from handle to tip (15 inches on the stick or so). Observe the gap between the straight edge and the belly. You should see a gap open up mid limb and then close up as you move toward the tip. No Bueno if so. Get it bending more just before that spot and just after so that the gap is more even from tip to tip. Again the right limb has a kinked area so that has to be taken into the equation, but check it as well.
Sand off any sharp angles on the bow, belly or back.
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wow great advice slimbob! I never would have thought of that trick there. I have a couple naive questions in return though. Will correcting these flaws make the bow shoot better? Because in my mind, if it can bend and fire as it is now (I couldn't resist taking a couple test shots today), won't further revision take off poundage? Or is it to protect the longevity of the bow? As in, these flaws that may seem small could potentially cause the bow to bust sooner rather than later? ooooor is it simply for the sake of making a serviceable work of art rather than a tillered stick? xD
Thank you so much for your time. I know these may seem like silly questions, but I want to really get to understand the big picture.
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Hey, I was in your shoes once and asked many of the same questions so no biggie. Your bow will at the very least break down and take excessive set at the weak spots robbing it of it's cast, likely getting worse with each successive shoot, until it breaks or just gives up trying. Yes it will lose some weight if fixed, but once it is right, it will be much more reliable from shoot to shoot. Few of mine would be classified by anyone as "works of art", but most of mine are rock solid and reliable shooters. If not I fix them and let them be weight wise what they are. Not trying to rain on your parade, but I would fix it. Good job getting this far, finish the race.
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No you didn't rain on my parade at all! I'm psyched now because I want to do this right! I am just a little restless because this is my first bow; I am not even an archer (yet!), I want to learn the ropes of archery on a bow made by my own hands. Very ambitious right?
Thank you so much for the advice.
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Just for the record, it's not my trick. I learned it from someone else who passed it on to others like myself. At no charge and expecting nothing in return. You will find that to be the rule among these guys. Keep posting your progress and good luck with it.
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This is a great place to learn! Then you get to help others learn. Just a great site I think.
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Reading my comments this morning I want to clarify something. When you run the straight edge along the limb, be aware that the gap will be smaller along the handle, as it should bend less there. It will open up as you move from the fade and then close up again as you near the tip (this is assuming a working handle and stiff tips. That's what I am seeing here). Once the gap begins to open after the fade it should remain fairly consistent as you move toward the tip. If you have areas with little or no gap, then you have a flat spot that isn't bending enough and causing another area just beyond it to bend to much. Scrape those flat spots to get them doing their share of the work. Leave the tips stiff (flat) at this length. Maybe the last 6 inches or so. When the bow is unbraced, run the flat edge along the belly. Observe the areas that have a gap while relaxed. If those areas are say open 1/8 inch more than the surrounding areas, just add that 1/8 inch back to that, or those spots. You don't need to put a ruler to it, just be aware that they started out bent when relaxed, so they should have more bend when braced and drawn, in order for them to be working enough.
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Wow thanks for the help Slim, that helps me understand what my next move is going to be, which is huge to a new guy. I may know what the problem is, but knowing exactly how to fix it is a whole different story!
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I have never thought to do the straight edge to a relaxed bow, but have wondered how useful it is for goofy limbs...that's a very helpful tip.
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Alrighty, here is the final tiller that I ended up with! I say final because I can't continue taking off from the belly or else the bow will be severely underweight (it's already lighter than my goal of 45-50 lbs).
But alas I must have more experienced folk's opinion so that I may continue to learn and understand this amazing craft. So what do y'all think of the tiller, and if it isn't perfect, is it "well enough" in your eyes? How far off am I? Be brutally honest please!!! I must know the truth!
(http://i62.tinypic.com/28oykx.jpg)
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Draw it by hand as if your shooting it and get a pic at full draw. That will give a better profile. What did the straight edge say on the left limb?
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you are not that far off or the bow would break,, it could use some fine tune and hard to tell from the photo for me,,,so if you feel you are done then shoot it and see what happens ,, your eye will get better with experience,, it may be possible that later ,, you could cut the bow shorter and fine tune the tiller,, but for now,,,if you are happy shoot it,,
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Thanks! and to Slim, the straight edge showed a pretty sizable gap dead in the middle of that weak spot you detected which is where a knot is. I did my best to try to even it out by sanding above and below the weak spot. Heres the pick at full draw
(http://i58.tinypic.com/2n8o8at.jpg)
..... Not sure why it came out sideways... lol
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Here you go.
The hinge on the bottom limb is a concern. Is it kinked right there when unstrung? If it is, as you said there is a knot there, then it might be ok like it is. It's just hard to tell from the pic. My guess is it could use a few more scrapes just above and below it. You be the judge on that, armed with the information you got off the straight edge. I will typically heat straighten kinks like that so that it is easier to judge the tiller. Your top limb looks to have a more subtle version of the same issue at the same spot but again, you make the call. It looks better than the earlier pic. Whomperty staves like yours are a challenge to tiller and the advice on how it looks from a photo are best guesses.
My advice is don't leave a weak hingie spot in the limb if you know you have a weak hingie spot. If your good that it's not that, then carry on. Congrats on what you have done btw.
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Ummmm, it might be wishful thinking, but I think thats just the shape of the wood due to the inward turning knot that it has. That indentation just kinda came with the wood while I was roughing it out with a draw knife. Now does that mean it isn't a weak spot? I have no clue :o Here are some close ups of that knot while the bow is unbraced, would you call that troublesome or just how the wood is formed? Or maybe I didn't follow the proper procedure when I encountered the knot. How is one supposed to carve knots during the roughing out stages of the stave? Man oh man this is quite the learning experience, thank you so much for helping me out to such an extent. I feel like my next bow I will be able to use my own expertise with all that I have learned from this.
(http://i60.tinypic.com/28l3xuq.jpg)
(http://i57.tinypic.com/29wnyat.jpg)
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If you run your thumb and forefinger along the back and belly, you should be able to feel that thin spot. I am assuming that it is thin just past the knot on the belly? If so it is both narrow and thin in that spot. If I am reading it wrong then disregard, but if I am right it's a problem. The thickness taper needs to be smooth with no dips or bumps. You can feel them. Easy to end up with a thin spot just after a knot like that as the drawknife tends to dig in there. Just make note of it and be prepare for it on the next one.
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Yea, there isn't much more that I can do, as it has already been worked to a splinter, but as of now, it only took a bit of set, going from naturally reflexed to even between the tips and handle, which I am happy with! So I'm gonna throw a finish on, wrap some leather around it for grip, and shoot it for as long as she will let me! Hopefully now she will live a lot longer than she would have if I hadn't gotten so much advice! Thanks again Slim, keep on shooting on!
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Hope some of it was helpful. Making these bows is something one just has to do. Especially on a stave like yours with all the humps and bumps, you just have to dive in and do your best. Learn from it and improve on the next one. Looking forward to seeing that one!
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Nothing to be ashamed of, there Jr. I like your motivated approach to this and expect to see many more bows from you in the future. My advise is to finish/shoot this one and then don't ever alter it. In 10 years you will want to look back and see where you've come from.
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yes I looked back at the unbraced profile and see the deflex spot in the bottom limb thats making the full draw look questionable,, it may be causing the appearance of a hinge,, but if the wood is bending even it should be ok,, like I said hard to tell from the photo,, you got great advice from above,, and with the dips and curves the stave had ,,,I think you did a great job,,congrats
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You did amazingly well for a "first timer". Was the Osage standing dead? When did you cut it?
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Sand it, oil it, and shoot it. Perfect tiller is rare even with clean wood, and it's really tough with character. I'd hunt that bow. Well done.
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Thanks a lot guys! no, I went hunting for a bodark tree late in the summer, found a fully matured "triple tree" and cut down the straightest trunk out of the 3 sisters. Boy I will tell you, cutting down a 10" osage orange with a bowsaw is NO EASY TASK. The log was straight as an arrow, but after quartering it and roughing out this baby, the wavy grainage became very clear, not sure how a straight log could yield such a snakey bow, but I try not to question mother nature too much ;D