Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Shooting and Hunting => Topic started by: Story Teller on September 20, 2014, 10:56:47 pm
-
Folks,
Last weekend I staked up on a pair of young mule deer bucks. I took a shot at one when his head was down in the grass from about 15 yards. He jumped the string. A clean miss. (thank goodness) My bow didn't make enough noise to alarm him or his buddy, because they both went back to browsing when they decided that since I didn't move more than a tree I must not be a problem. I stayed with them carefully and took a shot at the second buck half an hour after the first, again when his head was down in the grass. He turned right around at the sound of my string and my arrow, a good shot, slipped right by him. Not enough noise to alarm him; he didn't run off, but my string is triggering these guys' instincts and they're dodging. Extraordinary actually!
It's frustrating enough to miss a miracle two shots in a single day while hunting mule deer, but I'm really disturbed by the thought that a deer will jump and end up wounded, but not in the vitals. I have the inexpensive tie-on rubber string silencers on my bow. I doubled them up for this weekend, but after taking some shots at weeds in the silent woods today, I'm still concerned.
Folks, what can I do to further quiet my bow? I read through many of the posts looking for advice over the last week and I experimented with the advice on Stevecpa66's topic on string noise, but I don't believe my release is the culprit. Has someone else solved this problem and can offer some advice?
Thanks!
-
Limb timing could be the cause. Will you post pics of your bow? Braced, unbraced and full draw. How heavy are your arrows?
-
I will be watching this, this could be a very interesting subject. I would get rid of those rubber silencers. Try a nice piece of beaver. You can get them from pine hollow long bows. I like Pat's idea but he would be the one to answer that one. JMO Patrick
-
Is this a wood bow you speak of?
-
My loud bows have almost always been quieted down significantly by adjusting the brace height and having a correct spine, well tuned arrow.
Patrick
-
Any string silencer material should quite down a bow because it absorbs the vibrations. I've tied rubber bands for a quick fix string silencers with good results. A bow that is noisy with string silencer has other issues. Improper brace height, incorrect spined and not so well tuned arrows like Patrick said. I think a badly tillered bow can also make noise but we are not getting the whole picture here. We need pics of the bow braced, unbraced and full draw to see not only the bow but how well it was tillered. What kind of string are you using? Arrow material and weight? Wood or glass bow? Inquiring minds want to know! ;)
-
Brace height and arrow makes a big difference. Fast Flight string does, also.
-
Gents,
Thanks to all of you for joining in to help me. I wrote a response to your requests for details and added some pictures, but it failed to post. Please don't give up on this. I'll need to figure out what went wrong. Maybe the picture files were too big. I'll keep trying.
Thanks
-
Original message:
Wow, Folks,
I came home from hunting today and all of your replies were waiting for me. Let me do my best to answer your questions. When we talk about the bow itself being the culprit, I begin to think I won't solve the problem for next weekend, but there is a bow-in-progress on my bench that maybe I can build better for next year with your collective advice.
I've attached pictures per your request. Un-strung, braced, and I used a stick to get a near-full draw picture.
My bow is of German brown locust. The limbs are 30.5 inches from the fade to the knock. The handle is 10.5 inches. The limbs are 1.25 inches wide until the last 9 inches where they taper to the knocks. It is a self-bow, no backing, single growth ring along the back. It draws 49 pounds at 29 inches. Brace height is 7 inches (helps the string and my sleeves from meeting).
The stave had a natural deflex curve to it. The string chase for this bow is very little, I've never measured it. The natural deflex played a trick on my amateur eyes and I realized well into the tillering effort that it was bending more in the middle and the ends. I overcompensated a little. I finished it with a little too much bend near the handle I think, but because I didn't want to lose any more draw weight, I stopped trying to perfect the tiller. I feel the imperfect tiller too. I have another bow that draws a little heavier and has much heavier limbs (lots of knots with extra wood around them) that releases, nonetheless, more gently.
I've been working down the same spool of bowstring for so long that I don't remember exactly what it is. The label is long gone. The phrase, "D-55" rings a bell. Dacron string; not Fast Flight. It is 8 strands, which may be a little over-engineered for the draw weight and length, but it makes the right size string and serving for standard arrow knocks.
The hunting arrows I use are carbon fiber Gold Tip Traditional #3555 and 125 grain tips. I've been practicing using a stick for a target. It forces me to pay very close attention to my arrow flight since I don't get the instant group feedback that a flat target provides. The result is two-fold. I've gotten better and more consistent, and I was able to really fine tune my arrows. I have a mixture of wood arrows a friend built for me and my carbon fiber hunting arrows all flying true, clean, and grouping together after a little fine tuning over the summer. I feel good about the arrows.
That said, this hunting season is almost over. I have a bow-in-progress on the bench. Please give me every bit of advice you can share, for our fellow readers and also so that I can be sure that my next bow solves any and every noise problem that can reasonably be solved. I'm eager to learn, and I really don't want any more game jumping my strings.
I'm especially curious about the mention of limb timing.
Do the fur silencers work better than the rubber "spiders?" Any opinions?
Thanks.
-
(http://file:///Users/alan_nicol/Desktop/IMG_0216_2.png)
-
(http://)
-
(http://)
-
You can see that most of the bend is at the inner 1/3 of each limb so only that is carrying the stiff outer limbs. If the outer limbs are not working they are baggage which equates to excess tip weight.
-
Thanks, Pat,
The imperfect tiller is the culprit for the noise? Is there anything to be done aside from losing weight to further tillering or building a better bow for next season? I have one weekend of archery season left.
-
The bending areas are the weak spots on each limb. The only way to remedy that is to make the rest of the limb bend more which will reduce the weight.
-
Thanks, Pat B,
I'll need to do a better tillering job on my next one. I've had some practice since the bow above, but they have either not been good choices for hunting, or I've given them to someone else.
I'm starting to learn a little here, and that's exciting. Will some of you address a few other ideas?
Mullet mentioned brace height, arrow weight and string type. Can we learn more about those?
In engineering, to keep a spring from developing a harmonic, we pair the spring with another of different shape and/or spring force so that they dampen each other's vibrations. I've considered twisting in a decorative thread of a different type into the bowstring to dampen it's natural vibration. Has anyone already tried that?
Do you all have an opinion about what silencers are better?
Assuming a good or perfect tiller, does limb shape or design affect sound?
I've not considered silence as a goal in bow design before this, but now I'm very sensitive to it and would like to know more.
Thanks, everyone.
-
As far as the brace height...there is a "sweet spot" somewhere along the center of the string. By moving the nock point up or down a bit you should be able to find it. A good starting point is about 3/8" above horizontal.
If silencers are needed on a string almost any soft material will work to absorb the string vibrations. Most folks use different types of fur, I think, because it looks cool.
Limb shape shouldn't cause noise in a bow unless the limbs are so wide you hear the wind vortex. ;D
-
Mullet mentioned brace height, arrow weight and string type. Can we learn more about those?
In engineering, to keep a spring from developing a harmonic, we pair the spring with another of different shape and/or spring force so that they dampen each other's vibrations. I've considered twisting in a decorative thread of a different type into the bowstring to dampen it's natural vibration. Has anyone already tried that?
Assuming a good or perfect tiller, does limb shape or design affect sound?
String type can be a sticky topic-people seem entrenched in their opinions and adding silencers (as suggested) tends to cover noise any given string should make, so I wouldn't be too concerned with string type as a noise issue and go ahead and use whatever previous strongly held convictions you have on the topic-everyone else does.
You also asked about arrow weight. Heavier arrows tend to be quieter because they are more efficient. The more efficient the arrow/bow system is, the more of the stored energy of the bow makes it into the arrow-and the less is left behind to vibrate.
As far as limb design, I have heard people express the opinion that recurves are too loud for their tastes, but I can't say that I have ever noticed that to be an issue I have picked up on. That may be a result of having used laminated FG recurves that they felt were loud, and I have used a few of those I guess...but other than that I do not know that I have seen design attributed to noise issues. That said, Japanese bows were apparently designed such that the limb had a harmonic frequency that would come into play when firing arrows at a consistent, rapid pace. If anyone has seen that done, I would be curious to know if any extra noise is attributed to that vibrational frequency.
SOM