Primitive Archer

Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Bloodhound on July 15, 2014, 09:18:38 am

Title: fast flight
Post by: Bloodhound on July 15, 2014, 09:18:38 am
Is there any disadvantage? See many like it but what all differences do you have to consider? Does it make tip overlays a requirement?
Title: Re: fast flight
Post by: Pat B on July 15, 2014, 09:30:08 am
No, tip overlays are not required unless you are using a soft wood. I have 2 osage bows that have FF strings but no tip overlays.
Title: Re: fast flight
Post by: Aaron H on July 15, 2014, 12:15:04 pm
I have been using dacron b-50 since I started, but I have heard that it stretches.  I think I will give FF a try on my next bow
Title: Re: fast flight
Post by: BarredOwl on July 15, 2014, 12:29:28 pm
No, tip overlays are not required unless you are using a soft wood. I have 2 osage bows that have FF strings but no tip overlays.


I assume yew, ERC, and such would be soft in terms of needing overlays with FF.  Would hackberry probably need overlays with FF string?
Title: Re: fast flight
Post by: PEARL DRUMS on July 15, 2014, 12:47:41 pm
If its not osage. Id overlay it. All whitewoods are soft.
Title: Re: fast flight
Post by: BOWMAN53 on July 15, 2014, 12:49:09 pm
If its not osage. Id overlay it. All whitewoods are soft.

hickory is soft?
Title: Re: fast flight
Post by: Buckeye Guy on July 15, 2014, 12:52:40 pm
Do you folks think it makes more string noise ?


If its not osage. Id overlay it. All whitewoods are soft.

hickory is soft?
I was thinking that also Bowman
Title: Re: fast flight
Post by: BOWMAN53 on July 15, 2014, 12:58:59 pm
i wasnt gonna say anything but how often do you get to call out Chris on something he said?!?!?!?! lol >:D
Title: Re: fast flight
Post by: PEARL DRUMS on July 15, 2014, 01:11:29 pm
Yes, hickory will easily dent under a 6-8 strand FF string. Elm, oaks, HHB, hackberry, walnut, maple and beech will all dent without overlays. Ive done a few hundred.
Title: Re: fast flight
Post by: blackhawk on July 15, 2014, 01:25:37 pm
Y'all should ask gun doc what happens to a western hemlock bow with selfnocks strung with a B-50 loop padded fast flight string..lmao  :laugh:  :laugh:  :laugh:
Title: Re: fast flight
Post by: BOWMAN53 on July 15, 2014, 02:28:37 pm
Yes, hickory will easily dent under a 6-8 strand FF string. Elm, oaks, HHB, hackberry, walnut, maple and beech will all dent without overlays. Ive done a few hundred.

that hasnt been my experience but ok, not all hickory is grown equally
Title: Re: fast flight
Post by: Buckeye Guy on July 15, 2014, 02:43:00 pm
Yes, hickory will easily dent under a 6-8 strand FF string. Elm, oaks, HHB, hackberry, walnut, maple and beech will all dent without overlays. Ive done a few hundred.
I guess I best take the string off of this ash bow I made for my granddaughter then !
Any one have Pink and Purple B50 that can get a string to me within the next couple of days her birthday is this next week and this is her gift ?
 
Title: Re: fast flight
Post by: Holten101 on July 15, 2014, 02:48:48 pm
I use FF directly on elm....its dents, but settles, and take no further damage. I have yet to damage a bow beyond shootability by using FF.

Cheers
Title: Re: fast flight
Post by: PEARL DRUMS on July 15, 2014, 02:58:37 pm
I simply said "I would". Do whatever turns your crank guys. I do.
Title: Re: fast flight
Post by: huisme on July 15, 2014, 03:50:41 pm
I'll never not overlay the maples and ash I use, but hickory, osage, and locust have all held up like champs for me.
Title: Re: fast flight
Post by: Gsulfridge on July 15, 2014, 04:10:02 pm
Y'all should ask gun doc what happens to a western hemlock bow with selfnocks strung with a B-50 loop padded fast flight string..lmao  :laugh:  :laugh:  :laugh:
What he said!!! :laugh:
Title: Re: fast flight
Post by: missilemaster on July 15, 2014, 07:37:21 pm
Y'all should ask gun doc what happens to a western hemlock bow with selfnocks strung with a B-50 loop padded fast flight string..lmao  :laugh:  :laugh:  :laugh:
What he said!!! :laugh:

  Yea, closely related to string cheese!
Title: Re: fast flight
Post by: bow101 on July 15, 2014, 08:14:05 pm
If its not osage. Id overlay it. All whitewoods are soft.

Sugar maple & Ocean Spray is soft...?   ???    Is B55 any better than B50.
Title: Re: fast flight
Post by: PEARL DRUMS on July 15, 2014, 08:32:41 pm
Ocean spray is hard as a rock, lovely wood. Sugar maple, not so much. I guess my "hard"wood category is just smaller than most. 
Title: Re: fast flight
Post by: PatM on July 15, 2014, 09:02:00 pm
I guess my "hard"wood category is just smaller than most. 
Few guys would brag about that Pearlie. >:D
Title: Re: fast flight
Post by: PEARL DRUMS on July 15, 2014, 09:33:18 pm
Mr. funny Pat! Good catch, I must admit.
Title: Re: fast flight
Post by: bubby on July 15, 2014, 10:45:54 pm
b-55 is better than b-50 it stretches way less
man Pat got ya good pearlie
Title: Re: fast flight
Post by: osage outlaw on July 15, 2014, 11:02:38 pm
Yes, hickory will easily dent under a 6-8 strand FF string. Elm, oaks, HHB, hackberry, walnut, maple and beech will all dent without overlays. Ive done a few hundred.
I guess I best take the string off of this ash bow I made for my granddaughter then !
Any one have Pink and Purple B50 that can get a string to me within the next couple of days her birthday is this next week and this is her gift ?


Guy, If I remember correctly I padded those loops pretty generously.  It is a low poundage bow.  I think it will be OK. 
Title: Re: fast flight
Post by: mikekeswick on July 16, 2014, 03:34:50 am
Another thing that is just as important a consideration is the design of the bow. The shorter the working limbs the more likely fastflight would be to damage the nocks.
Also what do most people make their overlays out of?? ;)
Title: Re: fast flight
Post by: Pappy on July 16, 2014, 05:57:49 am
Antler Mike. ;) :) I overlay most anyway so not an issues for me,but if padded I see no real difference.
Gun Doc's blowing [didn't see it] but 1 don't make a rule as we all know. It could have been the string I guess  :-\ but I have have seen B 50 do the same on several bows. As long as the string groves and smooth off nice and no Sharp edges I don't think you will have any problems.  :)
   Pappy
Title: Re: fast flight
Post by: Buckeye Guy on July 16, 2014, 08:09:13 am
Yes, hickory will easily dent under a 6-8 strand FF string. Elm, oaks, HHB, hackberry, walnut, maple and beech will all dent without overlays. Ive done a few hundred.
I guess I best take the string off of this ash bow I made for my granddaughter then !
Any one have Pink and Purple B50 that can get a string to me within the next couple of days her birthday is this next week and this is her gift ?


Guy, If I remember correctly I padded those loops pretty generously.  It is a low poundage bow.  I think it will be OK.
Thanks Clint
I just have never used the stuff so no real clue and this being a special gift that I may not be able to keep an eye on I do not want anything to go wrong
Title: Re: fast flight
Post by: PEARL DRUMS on July 16, 2014, 08:23:37 am
Another thing that is just as important a consideration is the design of the bow. The shorter the working limbs the more likely fastflight would be to damage the nocks.
Also what do most people make their overlays out of?? ;)

95% are buff horn or ipe. flat sawn Osage on occasion as well.
Title: Re: fast flight
Post by: PEARL DRUMS on July 16, 2014, 08:24:27 am
Guy I can assume the bow is 15-25#? Nothing can really happen at that weight. Im talking 45# plus bow. Especially 55-65# bows.
Title: Re: fast flight
Post by: Buckeye Guy on July 16, 2014, 12:46:31 pm
It is 25 -35
Clint says its good
It is noisy not sure I like that
Thanks
Title: Re: fast flight
Post by: George Tsoukalas on July 16, 2014, 03:07:36 pm
I agree with PD. Overlays on anything but osage, if you must use it.

But I am not an expert on FF because I once had a mishap with the stuff and now refuse to use it. Y'all are welcome to it.

I admit I've used it for tillering osage. It's good in the early stages because it does not stretch much.

I made the mistake of trying to use it on a red oak bow and had the nock split for 6 inches. String broke when stringing. I'm glasd I was not drawing it. FF was unpadded.

I know. I know... the mishap was my fault and not that of the string material. Despite the fact that I've made hundreds of bows and never had a bow's self nock split with B 50. I've also never ever broken a B 50 string though I did come close once.

Did you ever notice on archery internet sites of there is a problem with FF it's the bowyer's fault?

Ok...I'm feeling a bit on the irascible side today 'cause its nap time. :)

Let me get this straight. FF is ok as long as you pad the loops with B 50 and put on overlays on anything but osage.

Use it if you want but not everyone has had nothing but success with it. I know...my fault.:)

No thanks. Pass. :)

Jawge
Title: Re: fast flight
Post by: PatM on July 16, 2014, 03:45:55 pm
I've always wondered what the grain orientation was on that bow Jawge.
 I've also wondered what you will do when a bow strung with B50 splits, would that be the end for you?
Title: Re: fast flight
Post by: George Tsoukalas on July 16, 2014, 03:52:06 pm
Pat, I repaired that bow. Glued it up and put on an overlay.  It came from a red oak log stave...not a board. Don't know how many board bows. Lots. I know how to read grain
I've made a good 200 bows or more. Haven't split a nock with B 50.

See ... told ya. My fault.  I knew it! :)

Just having fun. Could care less what everyone uses for string material.

Jawge
Title: Re: fast flight
Post by: PEARL DRUMS on July 16, 2014, 03:59:17 pm
Jawgey what aspect of FF do you suppose caused the crack at your tip? This is real and not rhetorical.
Title: Re: fast flight
Post by: bubby on July 16, 2014, 04:29:24 pm
I actually had a b50 string split a self nick on a boo backed bow  a long 
Time ago, I don't know if it was my fault I just fixed it and moved on, now I've moved  on to ff with no problems
Title: Re: fast flight
Post by: George Tsoukalas on July 16, 2014, 04:33:14 pm
PD, I think the loop was too thin and needed beefing up with B 50. The string was given to me .
I also think that overlays are needed for most whitewoods including red oak.
Jawge
Title: Re: fast flight
Post by: PEARL DRUMS on July 16, 2014, 05:19:22 pm
If I had to guess, Id guess thin loops myself. I used to pad all mine. Now that I overlay 99% of my bows, and use mostly buffalo horn, I never pad them.
Title: Re: fast flight
Post by: PatM on July 16, 2014, 06:30:34 pm
I was merely thinking that an edge ring or close to edge ring board with the nock grooves corresponding with the pithy early growth would be a sure recipe for a split.
 That wouldn't even mean that the grain was "bad".
Title: Re: fast flight
Post by: George Tsoukalas on July 16, 2014, 08:44:08 pm
No problem, Pat. LOL. Better now. Had my nap. The world seems so much nicer now.
I may even get a spool of that stuff for myself.
:)
Jawge
Title: Re: fast flight
Post by: Marc St Louis on July 16, 2014, 10:21:24 pm
One thing that will affect the amount of pressure the string puts on the nock is the brace height.  A low brace height puts a lot of pressure on the nocks
Title: Re: fast flight
Post by: bow101 on July 16, 2014, 10:34:21 pm
Ocean spray is hard as a rock, lovely wood. Sugar maple, not so much. I guess my "hard"wood category is just smaller than most.

Ok then.........funny one.. ;D    actually some of the Hard maple I find very close to harness with OS.  I have some Choke cherry and its comparable to most. Think I'll use it for tip overlays.
Title: Re: fast flight
Post by: Gordon on July 17, 2014, 01:30:23 am
I use FF for all my bows. I always put overlays on bows made from soft woods like hazelnut, yew, and cascara. The trick to making self nocks that don't split is starting off the string grove almost perpendicular to the back and then curving it around. Angling the groves immediately from the back will result in thin shoulders that are prone to splitting.
Title: Re: fast flight
Post by: mikekeswick on July 17, 2014, 02:28:59 am
Another thing that is just as important a consideration is the design of the bow. The shorter the working limbs the more likely fastflight would be to damage the nocks.
Also what do most people make their overlays out of?? ;)

95% are buff horn or ipe. flat sawn Osage on occasion as well.

Have you ever tried to split ipe? Sure it's hard but it splits very, very easily....flat sawn osage could do the same between rings. I've had self osage tips break.
As has been said there are various things at play....it's not just the material you use it's how that material is used in CONJUNCTION with the design of the bow.
Title: Re: fast flight
Post by: medicinewheel on July 17, 2014, 03:19:26 am
... The trick to making self nocks that don't split is starting off the string grove almost perpendicular to the back and then curving it around. Angling the groves immediately from the back will result in thin shoulders that are prone to splitting.

Very important point (be it with or without overlays)!
For me FF ever since I used it the first time.
And overlays on all bows. Why take a risk???
Title: Re: fast flight
Post by: Pappy on July 17, 2014, 07:56:59 am
I see we are still at it. ??? ;) :) Good point Gordon on the nocks. :)
   Pappy