Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: simson on July 13, 2014, 01:16:37 pm
-
This is a making of a new static, how I usually do it.
I'm aiming for about 60#. The stave is very nice, but a little twisted and a sabre.
(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/osage%20staic%20plum%20handle/P1020588_zpse05f51d7.jpg)
(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/osage%20staic%20plum%20handle/P1020589_zps6d5d3142.jpg)
One side shows growth rings absolutely o.k., the other a bit thin but I have to go with it. The stave was worked down to a growth ring several months ago, but there are some deep drying cracks on the outer limbs going through at least three rings. I hope, I could avoid them.
The stave is 61 long.
(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/osage%20staic%20plum%20handle/P1020590_zpsc2a3392d.jpg)
After the first clean up:
(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/osage%20staic%20plum%20handle/P1020592_zpsad91899f.jpg)
Lay out of handle, 1 above, 3 under center. Fades are marked 3 from handle. The limbs are divided in 10 parts and marked with a pencil. Of course the parts are different length in lower and upper limb.
I do not mark a center line lengthwise the stave. I let the draw knife search the line. Using extra sharp blade makes it easy finding the grain. The result is a parallel stave (front) from fade to tip. From there on I make the side taper by fading out with long draws with the knife.
First one limb is worked out, how I like the front profile, then the parts (pencil lines) were measured and the other limb is made the same. I work here very exactly. My measurements are made with a vernier caliper. The thickness is only rough worked down to a parallel thickness, for orientation a parallel line is drawn on both sides of the stave. The limbs were tapering out to the tips to a square of about 5/8.
(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/osage%20staic%20plum%20handle/P1020596_zps353c6f83.jpg)
(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/osage%20staic%20plum%20handle/P1020594_zpsd20611f3.jpg[/IMGhere is the left over from the first reduction[IMG]http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/osage%20staic%20plum%20handle/P1020597_zpse9bdd560.jpg)
(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/osage%20staic%20plum%20handle/P1020593_zps5ff5a247.jpg)
(http://]I do not mark a center line lengthwise the stave. I let the draw knife search the line. Using extra sharp blade makes it easy finding the grain. The result is a parallel stave (front) from fade to tip. From there on I make the side taper by fading out with long draws with the knife.First one limb is worked out, how I like the front profile, then the parts (pencil lines) were measured and the other limb is made the same. I work here very exactly. My measurements are made with a vernier caliper. The thickness is only rough worked down to a parallel thickness, for orientation a parallel line is drawn on both sides of the stave. The limbs were tapering out to the tips to a square of about 5/8.[img width=450 height=600]http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/osage%20staic%20plum%20handle/P1020596_zps353c6f83.jpg)
here is the left over from the first reduction
(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/osage%20staic%20plum%20handle/P1020597_zpse9bdd560.jpg)
Now for the recurving. The next pic shows my boiling machine, made from an electric cooker (from grandma), a cooking pot, an old plastic salad pot and a flex plastic tube (allows even boiling character staves). The stave is fixed in the tube with some cloth, so the steam and the heat remains in the tube. I heat the thing for about 30 min.
(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/osage%20staic%20plum%20handle/P1020598_zps3d1c68c8.jpg)
here is the simple caul (made in 2 min) from a plywood board. On the stave you can see the green line for rough thickness.
(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/osage%20staic%20plum%20handle/P1020600_zps70e40562.jpg)
I use two short cauls for the recurves, this allows doing both recurves in one session. I let them cool down over night.
-
Very cool build so far Simon. Can't wait. I like the steamer
-
I love build alongs I just hate waiting for them to finish. >:D Thanks for sharing the knowledge.
-
Awesome a Simson buildalong!
-
I'll be watching this one closely. :)
-
I'll be watching this one closely. :)
Same here ....Will H
DBar
-
A Simson build along....., I'm in for seeing every bit of this one. Go slow Simon, I'll be taking notes. :) :)
-
Going to look forward to the updates :)
That steam bending rig is brilliant. Is the bendy tube heat resistant? I imagine it is if so whats it called so i can look some up?
Thanks.
-
yep, I will be keeping an eye on this one...
-
Looking good so far,nice looking wood you are working with. :)
Pappy
-
Looking good. Never heard of that wood. Jawge
-
Thanks Gentlemen,
today no time to continue, maybe tomorrow!
Going to look forward to the updates :)
That steam bending rig is brilliant. Is the bendy tube heat resistant? I imagine it is if so whats it called so i can look some up?
Thanks.
Dwardo, this is a HT- Pipe. HT= high temp., it is used by the plumbers for installation. I got mine from IKEA for cheap. The clou is it has a fitting for a horizontal pipe, which I use for boiling inner parts of the bow. When I find the time I will make a pic from that equipment.
Looking good. Never heard of that wood. Jawge
Thanks Jawge, the wood is osage. Perhaps you meant the wood from the other thread which is cornus mas, a kind of dogwood. It's called cornealian cherry
-
some pics from my boiling machine, here with the horizontal pipe used for boiling midlimb or at handle
(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/osage%20staic%20plum%20handle/P1020655_zpsdce4183e.jpg)
(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/osage%20staic%20plum%20handle/P1020656_zps15ffbe22.jpg)
(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/osage%20staic%20plum%20handle/P1020657_zpsba82845e.jpg)
the flex pipe allows boiling snakeys or character staves
(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/osage%20staic%20plum%20handle/P1020658_zps22f09c30.jpg)
here is a quick sketch about the layout, should have made it in session one
just to clarify the system
(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/osage%20staic%20plum%20handle/P1020659_zps4e9de14d.jpg)
Now let's go on:
I don't trust in the old chased ring, I go for the next and let portions from the old on handle (allows to round out on the back) and tips (perhaps I need them, we will see).
(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/osage%20staic%20plum%20handle/P1020605_zps84157d5f.jpg)
(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/osage%20staic%20plum%20handle/P1020606_zps554059cf.jpg)
(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/osage%20staic%20plum%20handle/P1020607_zps43455e9a.jpg)
looking down the stave you see the limb is off about 2-3. forgot to say: most of the twist was corrected with the recurving job.
(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/osage%20staic%20plum%20handle/P1020601_zps33b2fe8f.jpg)
(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/osage%20staic%20plum%20handle/P1020603_zps83c22ab5.jpg)
The string alignment was corrected with boiling midlimb, did come along nicely, but still 1½ off. I will do the rest with dry heat .
I will go for a deep handle on this bow, but the stave wasn't thick enough. The handle is planed down for a glue up.
(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/osage%20staic%20plum%20handle/P1020608_zpse23ffbde.jpg)
I found a nice piece of plum heartwood, which I also prepped for the glue line
(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/osage%20staic%20plum%20handle/P1020611_zps8336072c.jpg)
(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/osage%20staic%20plum%20handle/P1020612_zpsd96587e1.jpg)
a few rough rasping
(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/osage%20staic%20plum%20handle/P1020614_zps85aad2b7.jpg)
(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/osage%20staic%20plum%20handle/P1020615_zpsfc6ba669.jpg)
a bit sanding
.
(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/osage%20staic%20plum%20handle/P1020616_zpsffa2b1d9.jpg)
(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/osage%20staic%20plum%20handle/P1020617_zps32c5ff2d.jpg)
(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/osage%20staic%20plum%20handle/P1020618_zps8f206696.jpg)
(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/osage%20staic%20plum%20handle/P1020620_zps469a5f49.jpg)
Now for the thickness. Here is a pic were a green line is drawn parallel (about 11/32). you the mark fade, I hav egiven up the short fades (3 from handle) and decided to go for long fades (looks much better). So graduation mark 1 has become my new fade.
(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/osage%20staic%20plum%20handle/P1020621_zps0b830b09.jpg)
(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/osage%20staic%20plum%20handle/P1020623_zps839c2d03.jpg)
(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/osage%20staic%20plum%20handle/P1020624_zps789d8c22.jpg)
Working out very carefully to the green line, of course from fade to tip. I try to get a smooth transition from handle to fade. The tips, and recurves are let thick, this is a job for later. As said I use a razor sharp draw knife with a thick blade and a steep angle. This makes it easy to work exactly to a given line and you can get nicely curls
(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/osage%20staic%20plum%20handle/P1020662_zps9e7f745d.jpg)
as you see above, working down the thickness to the parallel line creates an automatically taper from fade to tip.
Here is the leftover from session two
(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/osage%20staic%20plum%20handle/P1020626_zps56a8f70f.jpg)
And this is how it looks like now
(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/osage%20staic%20plum%20handle/P1020628_zps76447953.jpg)
(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/osage%20staic%20plum%20handle/P1020629_zps4e309e95.jpg)
(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/osage%20staic%20plum%20handle/P1020630_zps0579df5c.jpg)
(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/osage%20staic%20plum%20handle/P1020631_zpscf445bcc.jpg)
with all the interruptions for taking pics I (fool as I am) have forgotten doing the heat correction. I usually do this at the handle, but I have already glued on the plum! Only chance is bending in the fade. After measuring string alignment with a piece of cord it shows a bit more than 2 off. The handle is secured with alu foil to protect it from the heat.
(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/osage%20staic%20plum%20handle/P1020633_zpse157fae4.jpg)
(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/osage%20staic%20plum%20handle/P1020634_zps48199e01.jpg)
(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/osage%20staic%20plum%20handle/P1020635_zps74aafda3.jpg)
the ruler shows me how long I have to heat. After the bending job, I let it cool out for at least 2hours.
-
I know it sucks to wait for the next session, but perhaps I can do it upcoming weekend
sorry for the wait
-
Looks like it's coming along nicely! Couple of questions for ya.
1. How long are your fades now. I too like the looks of longer fades but usually consider 3"-4" long by my standards.
2. Did you seal the handle area or fade before steaming? In my experience not doing so results in many unsightly checks.
Again I love your work and only ask to learn from your ways of doing things. :)
-
Man that thing is coming around nicely Simon. It's neat to see how people do things differently. Thanks for doing this buildalong. :)
-
I like the yardstick trick for keeping an eye on your string alignment adjustment. That sure beats trying to eyeball things through a steam set up and vice.
Even your weights are classy! Sure looks nicer than an old bucket full of water.
Thanks for taking the time to share your build!!
-
This is a great build along. I can't wait to see more.
-
You are one heck of a craftsman!
-
You are one heck of a craftsman!
x2
-
Looks like it's coming along nicely! Couple of questions for ya.
1. How long are your fades now. I too like the looks of longer fades but usually consider 3"-4" long by my standards.
2. Did you seal the handle area or fade before steaming? In my experience not doing so results in many unsightly checks.
Again I love your work and only ask to learn from your ways of doing things. :)
1. they are 6" now
2. no, handle glue up is protected with alu foil. I did not heat the handle - I heat the fade!
I like the yardstick trick for keeping an eye on your string alignment adjustment. That sure beats trying to eyeball things through a steam set up and vice.
Even your weights are classy! Sure looks nicer than an old bucket full of water.
Thanks for taking the time to share your build!!
Carson, with the yardstick i can do bending exact to what I want. After controlling string alignment with a cord I know how far the string is off center. Next clamp bow in a vice, put on the weight, measure, heat til the exact amount is reached. Very simple.
Yeah my weights are classy, hahah.
Used the water bucket thing before, but know I'm happy I got my hands on some brass cylinders. On one is a leather belt mounted, this prevents slipping on the stave. Very comfortable.
-
let's continue with the tips. Here is a pic how it looks now:
(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/osage%20staic%20plum%20handle/P1020639_zpsb0fb73ac.jpg)
(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/osage%20staic%20plum%20handle/P1020640_zpsdef01ba0.jpg)
(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/osage%20staic%20plum%20handle/P1020641_zps624d3e53.jpg)
reducing the width
(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/osage%20staic%20plum%20handle/P1020643_zps27f5ddac.jpg)
glueing on some brownish horn with super glue allows to continue in seconds
(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/osage%20staic%20plum%20handle/P1020645_zps2567b63f.jpg)
some rasping and filing
(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/osage%20staic%20plum%20handle/P1020646_zps524a1902.jpg)
(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/osage%20staic%20plum%20handle/P1020647_zps8b05eef9.jpg)
(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/osage%20staic%20plum%20handle/P1020650_zps6a7b8c7e.jpg)
well, the overlays are shaped only need polishing
I have now rounded the sharp edges on the limb sides, I let them stand as long as possible this is best guide for an even thickness taper.
I have reduced the with at the levers.
The leftover from these steps was a handful scrapes, forgot to take a pic.
The bow wasn't bent till now, I haven't done any floortiller. I don't like this. Now I bent her over my breast a few inches to get a feel for the drawweight. Handle resting on the breast, bow horizontal, drawing back both tips. Meanwhile I'm quite good in estimating the weight.
Here is a pic of the reflex the stave has
(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/osage%20staic%20plum%20handle/P1020649_zps4ca49615.jpg)
First I took out a longer string out of my pile and watched the bracing in a mirror (to be able for interruption when needed). You can see at once, when the bow is not in balance one limb stiffer than the other.
It looked good, so I made a regular string for her, 6 strands of BCY 425X, strengthened with 2x2 dacron pieces (about 6 long).
The first brace looked good and I had to make only a few adjustments here and there. All I scraped of is shown in the pic below, really! Never had this extreme before, this flakes weighs only a few grains. The complete tillering in this case is done in 10 min.
I do not use the tiller tree anymore for tillering, only my drawweight measurements are made here. All tillering is made by looking in a mirror while drawing the bow.
(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/osage%20staic%20plum%20handle/P1020651_zps7c2b2b5c.jpg)
Now I leave it strung over night, to let the wood settle in. So now need for exercising the bow limbs. Next day I will see where adjustments are necessary, but my feel is good
I believe, the most exact layout working creates little tiller work
-
Interresting!!!
It's nice to see that someone else has a similar way to build bows like myself.
Maybe it's because we΄re from the same country?
Who knows...
-
very cool, how thick do you leave your tips whenever you are recurving?
-
That looks sweet,very nice work as usual,looking forward to seeing it all dolled up. :)
Pappy
-
sweet, well done. waiting for more.
chuck
-
Looking good Simon.
-
Thanks guys, will continue as soon as possible/ find a photographer
very cool, how thick do you leave your tips whenever you are recurving?
Falcon, go to page one 5th pic.
-
Wow I just discovered your post... thanks for sharing...! as a lot of you guys on this fabulous forum!
Thanks again Simson... ;)
-
I can watch this all day long and still wonder the How question. How do you do that? Simon, Do you think we have the ability and tools and knowledge to build self bows today better than they have ever been built before? And I'm speaking of appearance and performance of the self bow. What do you think? Looking good. Keep up the good work.
-
Thanks guys, will continue as soon as possible/ find a photographer
very cool, how thick do you leave your tips whenever you are recurving?
Falcon, go to page one 5th pic.
Thank you simson, I must have missed that picture before.
-
I can watch this all day long and still wonder the How question. How do you do that? Simon, Do you think we have the ability and tools and knowledge to build self bows today better than they have ever been built before? And I'm speaking of appearance and performance of the self bow. What do you think? Looking good. Keep up the good work.
That is a good question. I personally came over some things while learning (and I'm still learning) I thought I've discovered something really new - but after studying museum bows I noticed it was still done in the past.
I believe we have better tools, more knowledge about for example physics that helps a lot understanding why one bow is good, the other not. Bowyering is a long journey trough interesting things and I became a better bowyer from bow to bow, but I don't think we are now building better bows than the old cultures. Think on the turkish composite - a level of skills that only a few of us can reach. just my thoughts.
-
Well, hope you remember that thing
. lets continue.
Sorry, I havent done much on that bow. I have to manage some parallel projects, so time is what matters.
O.k. this is what Ive done till now:
Some finishing sanding on tips and handle
A string groove filed in the lever
Rounding the edges on backside and a bit more on bellyside
First coat of finish to prevent re-moistureing
(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/osage%20staic%20plum%20handle/P1020694_zpscbfa683b.jpg)
(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/osage%20staic%20plum%20handle/P1020708_zps58bce719.jpg)
(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/osage%20staic%20plum%20handle/P1020715_zps40ca95b8.jpg)
(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/osage%20staic%20plum%20handle/P1020695_zps2925b68a.jpg)
As said before, the bow was braced over one night to let the wood settle in.
Now the reflex has decreased to 1Ύ. In other words, the bow took a bit than ½ set.
The tiller looks now a bit uneven, lower limb is too stiff.
What do you think?
IMO a few scrapes on the entire lower limb and additional on both outer thirds a few scrapes?
(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/osage%20staic%20plum%20handle/P1020696_zpsd4e4d18d.jpg)
(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/osage%20staic%20plum%20handle/P1020713_zps521207dd.jpg)
When short drawing the bow, I mean I will not reach the 60# - feels a bit lighter. We will see the result, when shot in on the digi scale..
I'm thinking on heating in some reflex, to compensate the set and the probably underweight too.
Also a further mass reduction at the levers could add a few fps more. That are options for the future. Not sure for now. Perhaps better shoot it in for some hundred arrows.
Let me hear your thoughts
Ahh, forgot - the bow is 58½ntn, mass is 498grams (17½oz) and I want a 28 draw.
Will continue ASAP.
-
Maybe heat treating the limbs. The lower limb which is stiffer looks from the braced profile better for my eyes. So it is possible to make the both limbs equal via hot air that you didn't have to scrape the lower limb down.
Mass reduction at the tips is a good option ever.
jm2c
Greetz
Cord
-
Looking very good, I think as you said a few scraps on the lower limb to even it up and if you are still good with the weight finish her up,it should be a smooth shooter, Very easy to miss weight on them high reflex or
recurve/static tip bows,that is why I usually don't do the tips until I have them out to 20 inches or so,don't fool me as easy that way. ;) Beautiful work so far. :)
Pappy
-
looking good, I think I would thin the levers a bit more.
-
Simon, your work astounds me.
Grady
-
Bleib bei der stange ;)
-
Cord: Thanks for your input, will think on that. Nice to meet an other German here. I'm organizing a primitive (only!) rendezvous in Bavaria (weekend of August 15). Pm me, if you or anyone else here on this great site is interested.
Mark: thanks for your thoughts, it's interesting watching the different methods for making the same design ...
Grady: thanks man
Thad: Ha, I didn't know you are speaking German! Yeah, I will do that stick!
-
Dang ,was hoping for more pictures, Love the way this one is coming along. :)
Pappy
-
Very sharp looker there Simon. I've been watching and enjoying the build along, really impressed that you got it that close and even at first bracing. Never done a static myself but seems to me like all would have to be right to string one up the first time and only have minor tiller adjustments left to finish. Looking forward to the money shot, I'm sure it will be dead-on when your done with it.
-
Well wife is out of house the workbench had been crying.
What I've done:
Thinned the tips about a third
Narrowed the tips about a third
Deepened the string groove
Reduced mass at horn
Scraped a bit on the lower limb (about 10 long scrapes from fade to tip)
Additional scrapes both lims outer thirds, begin scrape the whole limb and getting shorter
It came along
with a few grains of yeller scrapes
The bow still holds the 2 reflex
(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/osage%20staic%20plum%20handle/P1020719_zps0d1d219d.jpg)
Thought an arrow strike plate would look cool, decided bone as material
I have some bone plates prepared as sheet about 3 or 4 mm.
Sawed out a triangle and sanded in some matching curves with a belt sander.
(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/osage%20staic%20plum%20handle/P1020721_zps0f7eff82.jpg)
The contour is cut in, then the hole is done all with a simple NT-Cutter.
(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/osage%20staic%20plum%20handle/P1020722_zpsdb76e3f6.jpg)
(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/osage%20staic%20plum%20handle/P1020723_zps600da550.jpg)
After some carving, I got it just sand down but with the bone as highest place of course.
(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/osage%20staic%20plum%20handle/P1020724_zpsc7e9b6d7.jpg)
(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/osage%20staic%20plum%20handle/P1020741_zps22c2ee0d.jpg)
Let's call the bow done now, I will post it in an extra thread for easier handling
here it is:
http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,47603.0.html
-
looks awesome simson, love that bone inlay