Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: cowboy on January 03, 2008, 01:02:08 am
-
I was playin around with some steam the other day - got both limbs curved without incident, but of course their not in line with each other (first attempt :)). I steamed toward the end to take out some of the twist and the limb just went straight on me again, I went ahead and clamped the curve back in but am left with a bad twist. Qestion: Unless you steam and clamp the entire bow at one time, what's the best way to adjust this stuff? dry heat, or would you try to localize steam just where you want to work on it?
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
Use dry heat. Clamp the bow in a vice, heat the wood and hand crank it just past straight and whistle DIXIE with all chorsus. By then you should be able to let it go. ;D Pat
-
Dry heat and whistle Dixie - I'll try that ;D. Something I forgot to mention, both ends that I steamed checked all over the back as it dried - is that standard, gonna be any problem ya think?
-
the problem is that the coors box is empty ;D either you empied it while making the bow or ran out before you started. :P
but really , i agree with Pat, but im not sure if you have to whistle all the chorus's- Ryan
-
I'd do as Pat said, but I'd have a cold one and skip the whistlein ;D
The checks are par for the course, they shouldn't be a problem as long as they don't run out.
-
Cowboy, Ryano is the expert on this...and hopefully he'll reply this afternoon. I agree with Pat about using dry heat to remove the propellar. It is manditory that those tips are inline with each other to the best of your ability, so it may take several tweaking sessions to get them in line. To begin with leave your tips wide, allows you some flexibility during tillering to cut your string grooves deeper to one side if need be to line up. If you can use the same form you used when steaming, you might can do some tweaking with the dry heat and shimming with a wedge shaped shim to rotate the limb in the desired direction instead of holding by hand. Just be careful of sharp edges on any shim you use as it can dig into the back of your bow. Don't over tighten the clamp...getting the wood rotated where you want is enough, no need to over tighten.
How long did you steam the wood, might have come into play with the checking on the back. Also how long had the wood been seasoned? Believe it or not, steaming actually removes moisture from the wood instead of the opposite, that's why it causes checking. I think a highly seasoned stave would be more likely to check then a stave with a higher moisture content.
Getting that sucker tillered to brace involves putting it in a vise and bending one limb at a time with both hands on the tips. Try to get the limbs bending even as possible and the outer 1/3 of the limb just beginning to open up some. When you put the bow in a tillering tree saddle, you'll have to either clamp it or tie into place to keep it from rotating if still on the long string. Just some info I've learned, hopefully it will help you get started. Again Ryan, Marc and Sawfiler are three who have made exception recurves that I've seen. I'm sure there are others, they just don't come to mind right now. ;)
-
Thanks: Ryan, Dano, Greg. Good thing about cold one's is their's always reserves if ya run short ;D. Glad to hear the checks won't be a problem - their's a bunch of em but their tiny and don't run out that I can tell.
The stave had been curing in the house for the better part of a year at the size it's at right now, so was pretty dry I'd imagine. I steamed both ends for a good solid hour before yanking it out and clamping as fast as me and the other drunk could ;D. This one is gonna be a learning experience for sure - any advice is welcome :).
-
I would clamp the handle in the vise heat the limb below the main bend in the recurve with a heat gun and hang something heavy from the tip of the bow until it bends just past straight and let it cool like that. Good luck! You picked a difficult piece of wood to work with for your first recurve. ;)
-
Thanks Ryano! I watched that being done at OJAM last year, and on Justin's take down buildalong. Will givver a try and probably others, I imagine It'll take several session's to get everything lined up half way close. Ran out of time at home, will keep ya'll posted on how she come's along next week :).
-
No clue sorry
-
I would also suggest using the heat gun and getting it as straight as you can before you recurve the tips. Just a little sideways bend is really magnified once you curve the tips.
I use a form as long as the limb plus the handle. I clamp the limb tip on the center line of the form and as I heat and bend it I try to keep the limb centered down the middle, especially around the bend and at the handle. I still have to adjust them but their usually pretty close. Shannon
-
I'm going to build another form and do it that way next time Shannon - thanks. I got it mostly aligned and the twist out today with dry heat - don't remember whistling Dixie but did say a silent prayer :). So now I have the little checks on the back and also a crack in the belly about mid limb on one end. Next I'll fill all the cracks with super glue and start tillering.
This isn't a build along - more like a trip along :D. Just keeping ya'll up to date as I go and maybe get some good solid advice for the next one. Thinking about tying this one up backward some and sinew backing later.
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
Interesting Paul. Keep us posted. Sometimes a build along with no problems isn't as informative as one with issues that we all have to deal with at some point in our bow building career. If you don't want to call it a "build along", how about a "teach along". ;) Justin
-
Looks like you got the alignment close now Paul. You didnt heat the back of the bow with the heat gun did you? It kind looks chared on the back in that picture.......You should never put that much heat on the back of the bow only the belly.
-
That's gonna be a wicked bow, I like those curves.
-
Lookin good Paul, more pics please, must be home again eh.
-
I don't know Justin - never considered myself a teacher but if my little failures along the way will help others I'll keep em comin :). I've got the tip to tip through the handle almost right on now Ryano (but not perfectly :)) - still have a little meat to work with. I didn't heat the back at all that's just discoloration during curing. Thanks guys, I'll keep the pic's coming as I work it out :)...
-
Paul
I've done more recurves than I can remember and plenty have been out of alignment. A trick I have developed to fix it is to clamp the bow in my vise with the misaligned tip hanging level with my workbench. I then cut a small piece of wood long enough to push the tip just past its alignment point. Then I apply dry heat to the belly till the wood gets hot and let it sit for awhile till cold. This method assures that you only have to heat it once to get the tip aligned with the other. Hope this helps
-
Marc, I don't know if it helps Paul, but it helps me. I have a hickory recurve that needs a little straightening. Thanks for sharing. I hope to know as much one day as you have forgotten. ??? Justin
-
Thanks Marc - I'm going to try that method for my final adjustment. It doesn't look perfect in the picture, but just eyeballing down the back I think I can take a little width of this side or that of the tips and have them pretty well centered.
Sorry Dana - yep I'm home finally and lovin it ;)!
-
You may have to make some adjustments as you tiller the bow as well. You'll find sometimes that a tip has to be misaligned slightly just so that the string will track well through the draw.
-
I don't fully understand that yet Marc, maybe has something to do with the stave not being perfectly flat and straight? Sure It'll hit me in the head one day ;D. Well, didn't want to let this thing set idle for too long so I wouldn't have to dig through pages of posts to find it.
I brought it along to work with me this week along with a bag of rasps and stuff ;D. A little OT in the Hotel room and I have the tips worked down purty close. The overlays are of Texas or Mexican Mountain Laurel (also Mescalbean) root. I picked this wood up in south TX and be durned if it don't look (almost) just like osage (and hard) but the rings are a lot tighter and has some yella, orange, a reddish colors to it. Anyway - real purty and hard :).
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
She's looking really good Paul.
-
Dang Paul she's got nice curves and nice tips ;) ;D
-
That bow was prolly the only good thing in the whole town of Lawton.
Man, I hated that place.
-
Lookin' good...hoping for a successful conclusion for you! ;)
-
as greg says!
-
Thanks everybody! I'm back home now and have the back roughed up for some sinew - gotta get back to hammerin ;D.
-
Well, got done hammerin and sinewin. That's about the roughest sinew job I've seen, but being the first attempt I didn't really know what to expect :). Man that Knox jellatin starts settin up fast and I'll comb that sinew out a little finer next time - live and learn.
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
Your wife let ya do it in the kitchen :o She's a keeper Paul ;D
-
The kitchen was the only place I could possibly pull it off last night. I told here I was going to make a big mess but it would be cleaner when I finished than before I started ;). Looking at the sinew this am, it's shrunk down quite a bit and cleared up alot - actually don't look too bad now :).
-
Give it a few days....it wont look the same then it will start to shrink and wont looks so bulky.....I have also used Saran wrap on them to flatten it out....wait till it isn't sticky and wrap it...it squeezes out the Air and makes it look nicer too
-
Thats lookin purty good Paul....Brian
-
thanks yankeemongiat, I'll consider that next time. And Brian - it is looking alot better than yesterday everything has cleared up and flatened out. I'm debating on whether to put on another layer or not (am thinking not) the thing is 64" N/N and prolly didn't need sinew in the first place but I needed to experiment :). Gonna be a coupla weeks before I can hit it again - took a crash course in sinewing the Hamm way last night before I got started. Bear with me. Thanks...
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
Looking good! I've got to try a sinew backed recurve sometime, they looks so neat and....fast!
Sean
-
Keep chippin away at it a little at a time as I get time. Let the sinew dry for about two weeks. Got home yesterday - touched up the tips some, cleaned up the sinew some and started bending her. Think I did it all backward (sposed to tiller, then sinew?) anyway got her bending fairly evenly - will do a little touch up in that today. Haven't decided whether to cover up the sinew with something yet or not. Won't use my snakeskins till I get one built that deserves em, maybe paper sack or somthing just to cover it up, or nothing at all, hmm.
Anyway, here's the tiller so far - more later...
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
What do ya mean until you get one that deserves em ::) Looks pretty good from where I'm sitting Paul.
Of course if its that bad just send it on up ya have my address ;) ;D I will send ya a dozen snowballs in trade >:D
-
I agree with Dana on this one, that bow is looking NICE! Those curves are sweet! ;)
-
Nice work, but isn`t it a bit too long for sinewbacking? I think it doesn`t make sence, because this length is enough to be sure, it won`t break. Thats work you could have saved and the extra strength would have been coming from the wood.
Anyway bowmaking is even a testarea.
Regards Uwe
-
Thanks Dana, Greg - it's starting to grow on me too ;D. Alright Dana you talked me into it ;), snakeskins to go on later this afternoon. Gotta few honeydo's to take care of first, and gonna make a run to Tandy to stock up on leather scraps and other things I need to do a Strunk style handle wrap. I went ahead and RIT dyed the sinew dark to bring out the pattern in the snakes.
Thanks uwe! I knew this bow was too long to really need sinew but it also has issues :). Got some character (waviness, twist, pin clusters, about a ten inch long crack in the bottom limb, other stuff) and besides I just wanted to experiment with it ;D. It seems to be holding so far..
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
man, this bow is getting better everytime i look!
frank
-
I don't think it's too long for Sinew...I have sinew backed several Paddle Bows that were 58-66 inches long....I agree that the Shorter Bows need it more....but Sinew adds a little Pep to any Bow...I too like those Curves....but I have had a couple start to separate at the Curves....so I wrap my Sinew around the Limb at the strongest part of the Curve to prevent this from happening....then I back with Skins
-
I too like those Curves....but I have had a couple start to separate at the Curves....so I wrap my Sinew around the Limb at the strongest part of the Curve to prevent this from happening....then I back with Skins
Sounds like sound advice to me...an ounce of prevention... ;)
-
That's kinda what I was planning on doin Yankee - except I was going to put the skins on up to the end of the sinew then serve the ends with either sinew or thread. That aught to hold it (I hope :)) and make it look a little more attractive..
-
Yeah...or you can Skin it all the way out ....split the Skin and go around your Tip Overlays....then Sinew Wrap the Curves over the Snake ...I have done this too and it looks Good....I myself would never use thread on a Sinew Backed Snake Skinned Bow....JMO!
Here is a Tip on a Plains Indian Bow with the Tips wrapped over the Sinew Job...Looks really cool
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
Looks pretty good cowboy. Can we see a relaxed side profile shot now? Looks to me like the top curve is opening up more than the bottom. I would put quite a few arrows through it before you finish it with snake skins and all, these type of bows have a way of changing tiller and limbs going outa line on ya for the first few weeks of use.
-
That looks good Yankee - yer givin me idea's ;D.
Too late Ryano, I done skinned her out :). Haven't even shot it yet - got so busy getting her prettied up I don't know if she even works yet, haha. Well I'll keep my fingers crossed, may just have to chalk this one up as experience :D. Honestly though, I see what Marc was talking about with the twist. She lines up through the handle at brace but wants to twist some during the draw (not too bad) but makes ya wonder.
Anyway - here's my two chicken snakes. Imagine me having chicken snakes, or is it rat snakes, or bull snakes?
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
your gonna wish you put that Skin all the way to the Overlays....they really look cool when they are split around them.....l
-
I got lots of bows yet to build Yankee ;D.
-
I will keep my fingers crossed for ya! Hope it shoots well. ;D
-
Hi cowboy,
Thought an expetienced bowmaker doesn`t make things without making thoughts of why and what to do!
Regards Uwe
-
Dang paul thats gonna look real nice in my bow rack ;D
-
It's lookin' good, but even if you have some problems creep up...I'm sure you've learned a lot from this one. Good job getting it to this point. :)
-
Appreciate it guys. This being my first try at several things I'm pretty happy with it so far, but am not impressed with one little thing. The tips are out of line - the more I eyeball down the back the more it seems to grow :-\. If it shoots at all I'll have a cool looking (not so good bow). Either way, I've learned a lot in the last couple of months. Look out next time ;).
-
Cowboy, She is looking great. I was always a straight limb kinda guy but found myself making more and more recurves. They kinda grow on ya! 8) Pat
-
Paul, she is looking great. If the tips are a little out of alignment its not going to hurt so much. It could be the way it is drying with the sinew and once you shoot the bow in it will come back around. I have seen several BOM bows (Greg's copperhead and Gordon's bows) that had the skins stop short of the end and wrapped so I don't think you can go wrong with whichever you prefer. Keep up the good work, it is about broadening ones horizons, not turning out perfect bows every time. Justin
-
Thanks Pat, Justin :). I think I know what went wrong, next time I'll whistle dixie while I'm trying to straighten those limbs :). She actually don't feel too bad throughout the draw - need to get a short string made up and shoot her some. Here's a profile shot - it was a deflexed stave to start out with. That's why I opted to attempt a recurve on this one - think it's gonna be a winner after all :).
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
Looks great Paul...Brian
-
Good job on that one! I know they're not easy to make especially the first attempt. ;)
Hey, is that the same chicken as was in the back of your truck last summer? Looks like he got petrified... ;D
-
Thanks Brian/GregB. Nope that's the chicken that ate my sinew, got him bronzed ;D. I aint done with the bow yet - lotsa other things going on at the same time. Maybe during the next nine days at work I'll be able to wrap it up. Did a little more tillering today after I looked at some pic's - I gotta quit taking off so much wood. She came in at 43#'s @ 28" >:(. Oh well nice shooter - they hit where I'm pointin :). I'll get some pictures up on a new post when she's done - thanks for your patience guys!!
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
Tiller looks good to me...nice job on that recurve, I'm sure the next one will make the weight you want. :)
-
Looks good to me,I have missed this somehow,very nice job on it.I love the tips. :)
Pappy
-
Thanks guys - I should have her finished up in the next week or so..