Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: DuBois on June 21, 2014, 01:14:30 am
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62" hackberry 27.5" limbs are 1 and 3/4" at fades and stave from 4" sapling has some crown.
Pulling 40# at 9" long string and shooting for 45# bow.
Am I ready for low brace now? I think I try to get too perfect before low brace sometimes and find I am already near low weight when I do.
Heat treat when nearer finished tiller or should I do it again now?
Any suggestions welcome and thanks.
Marco
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Marco, you are not 40#at 9" you are 40#@about 24". Time to brace the bow. You might come in light on this one.
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I thought he wrote Pulling 40# at 9" long string.......having said that how do you really gauge anything on the long string..? A 4" Brace would be somewhat accurate.
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Yes the tips are back far enough to brace it.
Del
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I thought he wrote Pulling 40# at 9" long string.......having said that how do you really gauge anything on the long string..? A 4" Brace would be somewhat accurate.
Imagine 40# pulls the tips back 6", then you you brace the bow to 6"
What is the draw weight now at 6" draw (E.g you just start to pull the string)? Answer is zero!
All that 40# to pull the tips back 6" is now just string tension! If you now pull 40# on the braced bow it will pull back about maybe 20" draw!
It's hard to get your head round this when you first strart and that's why so many new guys come in under weight.
Del
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+1 Mr. Cat. I think you may come in under weight. I also think that may be a good thing. 1 3/4" wide with a crown is a little more narrow than I would like for 50lbs on hack. Not saying it won't get there, just would have gone a tad wider if it were me. Heat treat deeply now before it takes any set. If it has already, I would take it out while tempering.
You can only go so wide when dealing with saplings with a crown. I believe that becomes the limiting factor from the get go.
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Just out of interest, I'm currently making a Yew primitive 60#.
The tips were just coming back enough at 60# to get it to a low brace (about 4") so I shortened the string.
Guess what it draws at 60# now it's on a low brace?
Yup ... 20" :laugh:
So you can see if you are only after say a 26" draw, you haven't got too much left to play with!
Del
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OK, this is a revelation and I am wondering why I never read or knew about this earlier. I can't blame all my light bows on not realizing what I think you guys are saying, but it sure could explain why I would think I had a bow bending good with room to spare and then braced it and found I was already out of wiggle room for corrections.
My previous thinking was this: long string hanging slack = 0 #
hook onto string with scale and pull 10" to 40# would = 40# at 10" draw.
But what you guys are saying I think is this: long string weight really doesn't mean much and the only reason to use a scale on a long string is to not overstress the wood by going beyond the intended draw weight. Also, this is why you want to brace it asap?
I never knew long string weight did not equate evenly to draw weight after bracing, if that is the right term to use?
Am I the only one who had no clue about what I was doing wrong or did other folks have to make the same blind errors before. I am happy to start to see the light but man I am kinda bummed out now that I see how it has been a part of some failures and maybe just now screwed up a good stave.
Thanks to you all.
I'm gonna go flog myself, eat worms, and listen to some sad sad blues.
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dubes don't worry about weight that early, floor tiller until you can get a long string on that is tight, work it to low brace and get it braced 2-3", then as you work it check the weight, least ways that's how I do it
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Is the note on your tillering tree for anyone on this forum?
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OK Bubby, I think I am beginning to see the error of my ways ;)
Josh, that is from a while ago when my little girl was learning to write and she surprised me when I got home. Sure can't erase it but it could seem a little odd on this site. That being said, I love you guys ;D
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Duboise, your questions are good because a lot of us are teaching new guys and we are looking for easy ways to expalin things that are easy to understand. You might see us disagreeing on our methods you might just try to grasp one that sounds easist to you.
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Thanks Badger,
I know this is some very important info for me to grasp and it really is a breakthrough moment for me to start getting this "simple" concept. I will get my own system or method sorted out someday. Who knew there could be sooo much to bending sticks?
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come on dubes, it's so easy a caveman did it >:D
sorry but I had to say it
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I use a long string less all the time. When I do use one, it's just to tiller an even curve where it should be even and to get the limbs working evenly.
Then I string the bow at brace height and work from there.
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I thought he wrote Pulling 40# at 9" long string.......having said that how do you really gauge anything on the long string..? A 4" Brace would be somewhat accurate.
Imagine 40# pulls the tips back 6", then you you brace the bow to 6"
What is the draw weight now at 6" draw (E.g you just start to pull the string)? Answer is zero!
All that 40# to pull the tips back 6" is now just string tension! If you now pull 40# on the braced bow it will pull back about maybe 20" draw!
It's hard to get your head round this when you first strart and that's why so many new guys come in under weight.
Del
I was just interpreting it differently. Probably what I meant to say was gauge the weight when its on the short string. As far as new guys come in under weight, I never had to much of an issue with that.
That reminds we I have to Tiller a new bow today, :) ..............then I'll cut it to make a 2 piece.
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come on dubes, it's so easy a caveman did it >:D
sorry but I had to say it
LOL
Some cave men were smarter than others ya know :'(
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A long string for me is tight. I never use a slack string at all. They just seem to deceive me. I start the limbs to bending and get it to low brace as soon as possible.
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I just read Steve's "how i use the long string" post and have to amend my post here... Thinking about how to explain what you do takes more than a little blurt like I made above. I have great respect for the creator of the mass principle, and all of the wisdom he imparts to guys like me and you every day. If I were you DuBois I would heed his sage advice.
I don't use a long string very much, or to it's full potential, I am sure. One thing I have focused on is my floor tillering. I guess I have developed a feel for when a bow is ready to be braced. That takes a brand new bow builder some time to develope. One thing that may help is to take a finished bow of similar design, draw weight, and length as the one that you are building, and floor tiller it to see how it feels to you. Compare that bend to the one you are working on, and you will know when you are getting close to stringing. I use that first longstring to start to bend the limbs and make sure that one limb isn't grossly stronger than the other. If I have them bending fairly evenly and there are no hinges or obvious flat spots, I take the bow up to a three or four inch brace.
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The mids need to bend Doobs. They are dead flat unbraced and should come around braced. That will lose another 10#.