Primitive Archer

Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: dwardo on June 12, 2014, 04:52:19 pm

Title: Willow bow in the works (Salix caprea) Goat willow
Post by: dwardo on June 12, 2014, 04:52:19 pm
Ayup all.

Rather than build nice bows today I spent all day making a willow bow thanks to you lot  :laugh:

I had this bit of willow for years and its almost become fire or carving wood several times but today after being inspired by Badger to just go till it blows. The length is all I had to begin with 63 ntn and two inches wide. Profile started flat in one limb with half inch deflex in the other and it has not seen any heat at all yet. The back has a couple of little tear outs here and there but who knows :)

I tillered this in a day so a please dont look too close but its pulling 47@19 and I can still tiller out the flat bit on the lower limb and bring the outers round a bit to lose some lbs. Taking very little set so far. 5 inch brace

(http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o218/dwardo/Bow%20making/20140612_202704_zps4dludsh8.jpg)
(http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o218/dwardo/Bow%20making/20140612_202629_zps0hxv2scs.jpg)
(http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o218/dwardo/Bow%20making/20140612_202605_zps8exv8tob.jpg)
(http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o218/dwardo/Bow%20making/20140612_202255_zpsu2ojxyjd.jpg)
(http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o218/dwardo/Bow%20making/20140612_202341_zps7a015mg5.jpg)

Title: Re: Willow bow in the works (Salix caprea) Goat willow
Post by: Badger on June 12, 2014, 04:56:23 pm
  This will be interesting. You are doing better with that one than the willow I tried several years ago, mine just popped in half like a piece of cork. It was about 1/2 the weight of pine. I think you might make it. How much does your stave weigh?
Title: Re: Willow bow in the works (Salix caprea) Goat willow
Post by: dwardo on June 12, 2014, 05:21:32 pm
  This will be interesting. You are doing better with that one than the willow I tried several years ago, mine just popped in half like a piece of cork. It was about 1/2 the weight of pine. I think you might make it. How much does your stave weigh?

It is 18.3 at the minute, whats your best guess? Still have enough meat not to kill it and still get the outers working a little more?
I think half the battle is saying things like "Willow" will not make a bow rather than most willows will not make a bow. This would be a complete waste of time with crack/fragilis or white/alba or most of the osiers but goat willow might work out ok. Then there are just those special individual trees within a ssp that are just fighters.

Oh its about 5/8 thick too so far  :laugh:
Title: Re: Willow bow in the works (Salix caprea) Goat willow
Post by: Badger on June 12, 2014, 05:31:49 pm
  If you can get 45 and 26 I think that would be a pretty fair accomplishment.
Title: Re: Willow bow in the works (Salix caprea) Goat willow
Post by: dwardo on June 12, 2014, 05:42:20 pm
  If you can get 45 and 26 I think that would be a pretty fair accomplishment.

Thanks for putting it so nicely ;)
Title: Re: Willow bow in the works (Salix caprea) Goat willow
Post by: Marc St Louis on June 12, 2014, 06:32:54 pm
That is quite nice. 

The Willow up here is fairly strong in tension and I would imagine it would make a decent bow, I know I have been tempted to try it several times
Title: Re: Willow bow in the works (Salix caprea) Goat willow
Post by: dwardo on June 12, 2014, 06:40:32 pm
That is quite nice. 

The Willow up here is fairly strong in tension and I would imagine it would make a decent bow, I know I have been tempted to try it several times

Its quite ugly in person believe me, There are several sets of pin knots that go right through the limb and I roughed out the handle on a bandsaw  >:D

This one I am a bit more excited by. Its Elder and was too about to become firewood due to its prop twist and gammy limb.
(http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o218/dwardo/Bow%20making/20140609_211721_zpsbt25gbpv.jpg)

Fifty quids worth of electric on the heat gun ant its more like this now.

(http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o218/dwardo/Bow%20making/20140612_203012_zpssqczpffw.jpg)

It is very bouncy and reactive for want of a better word at floor tiller. Have to leave it for about a week to re-hydrate or it might just spontaneously combust after 6 or so heat corrections.
Title: Re: Willow bow in the works (Salix caprea) Goat willow
Post by: PEARL DRUMS on June 12, 2014, 09:13:15 pm
Maybe rid most of the handle to get all the help you can.
Title: Re: Willow bow in the works (Salix caprea) Goat willow
Post by: Joec123able on June 13, 2014, 08:34:56 am
Willow seems like it's fairly strong tension wise but feels like it would take a load of set would be my guess
Title: Re: Willow bow in the works (Salix caprea) Goat willow
Post by: bubbles on June 13, 2014, 09:02:11 pm
If it blows you can always make some sweet bow drill hearths from the shards!
Title: Re: Willow bow in the works (Salix caprea) Goat willow
Post by: nakedfeet on June 13, 2014, 10:11:05 pm
Willow seems like it's fairly strong tension wise but feels like it would take a load of set would be my guess

That's my impression as well.

It bends like crazy, and it's really easy to make baskets and such with the branches. But just simply judging by the "twig bend test" for suitable bow wood -- it springs back ultra slow.
Title: Re: Willow bow in the works (Salix caprea) Goat willow
Post by: mikekeswick on June 14, 2014, 04:42:57 am
Willow is used to make cricket bats....so it must have something going for it! It can take impacts well but how exactly that translates to bow making properties....????
Our elder makes fine bows Dwardo. It's right up there with anything else native. I've got a lovely one that's about 45#
Title: Re: Willow bow in the works (Salix caprea) Goat willow
Post by: blackhawk on June 14, 2014, 07:36:27 am
Gee...this almost makes me wanna go cut some willow  ::)  :laugh: good luck...your half way there...
Title: Re: Willow bow in the works (Salix caprea) Goat willow
Post by: WillS on June 14, 2014, 07:51:28 am
Some guy posted an 85# willow warbow on Facebook the other day.  Crazy!  Good luck dude.
Title: Re: Willow bow in the works (Salix caprea) Goat willow
Post by: keef on June 14, 2014, 02:08:33 pm
goat willow, when mature, has a reddish hard heartwood (I've been cutting and burning a lot of standing dead stuff over the last year). It is far more dense than the other native willows, which never burn and seem soft

I think that if you found a trunk of 6" dia. and split it, then worked down to the heartwood, you may perhaps have a wood worth working with

Good luck Dwardo and enjoyed the post
Title: Re: Willow bow in the works (Salix caprea) Goat willow
Post by: dwardo on June 15, 2014, 04:57:29 pm
Maybe rid most of the handle to get all the help you can.

Don t thin there is much in there to save her especially as I just hacked out the handle far too thin. Will see how it goes bud.

Some guy posted an 85# willow warbow on Facebook the other day.  Crazy!  Good luck dude.

85! Thats a monster willow!

Gee...this almost makes me wanna go cut some willow  ::)  :laugh: good luck...your half way there...

Or halfways broken  ;D we will see. Not had chance to play with it since, been out camping shooting n trapping. Plus whittling the elder whilst playing in the woods.

Willow is used to make cricket bats....so it must have something going for it! It can take impacts well but how exactly that translates to bow making properties....????
Our elder makes fine bows Dwardo. It's right up there with anything else native. I've got a lovely one that's about 45#

The elder despite its nast twist feels soo good at floor tiller, incredibly elastic and responsive. I am breaking one of the golden rules and falling in love with a bit of wood before its a bow.  :-\
It has had many an hour on the form and under caul to try to straighten, add to that the twist still left and the knots who knows but either way its bow or kindling by the end of the week

Willow seems like it's fairly strong tension wise but feels like it would take a load of set would be my guess

That's my impression as well.

It bends like crazy, and it's really easy to make baskets and such with the branches. But just simply judging by the "twig bend test" for suitable bow wood -- it springs back ultra slow.

Yeah its lacking the bounce of decent bow wood but go till it goes pop and we will see.

If it blows you can always make some sweet bow drill hearths from the shards!
 

Great idea. We were trying to perfect various fire lighting methods over the weekend so that may be an option. Although its a little cheating to bring a pre-made kit  O:)

Willow seems like it's fairly strong tension wise but feels like it would take a load of set would be my guess

I would guess its gonna but will post results either way once I get back at it. Still aching limbs and a bunch of mozzie, horsefly and mite bites to treat first :)
Title: Re: Willow bow in the works (Salix caprea) Goat willow
Post by: danny f on June 15, 2014, 05:00:57 pm
looking good. is goat willow the one with diamond patterns on the bark? there is loads growing near me but i have never thought it would make a bow.
Title: Re: Willow bow in the works (Salix caprea) Goat willow
Post by: dwardo on June 16, 2014, 06:48:14 am
looking good. is goat willow the one with diamond patterns on the bark? there is loads growing near me but i have never thought it would make a bow.

Thats the stuff mate. Round leaves as opposed to the usual longer thinner jobbies. Always growing in scrub and at the edge of woodland.
Title: Re: Willow bow in the works (Salix caprea) Goat willow
Post by: danny f on June 17, 2014, 06:55:30 pm
cheers, i might just give it a go if yours holds up ;) there looked to be plenty of decent straight stuff there.
Title: Re: Willow bow in the works (Salix caprea) Goat willow
Post by: dwardo on June 19, 2014, 05:46:51 pm
Well nawt else is dry enough to work so back at the willow.

The black marker on the scale is 50lbs. Tiller aint great but it is what it is. Badger was bang on as usual, over 25 its starting to complain at 24 @50 its stable. It has taken about inch and a half of set with, no added reflex or heat at all just as it is.
I think I can take the flat out of the upper limb and pull the outers round some more? There is a set of pin knots it that bit but it might move some. Maybe heat treat it to within an inch of its life and narrow the outers? Its great practice whilst other stuff seasons which ever way.

(http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o218/dwardo/Bow%20making/20140619_203456_zps3wdzjj4r.jpg)
(http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o218/dwardo/Bow%20making/20140619_203412_zpsrdjuin6u.jpg)
Title: Re: Willow bow in the works (Salix caprea) Goat willow
Post by: PEARL DRUMS on June 19, 2014, 07:53:20 pm
Great bends dwardo.
Title: Re: Willow bow in the works (Salix caprea) Goat willow
Post by: mikekeswick on June 20, 2014, 10:11:01 am
The upper mid to outer needs to bend a little more. The bottom looks good. :)
Out of interest what does it weigh?
Title: Re: Willow bow in the works (Salix caprea) Goat willow
Post by: dwardo on June 20, 2014, 10:30:00 am
The upper mid to outer needs to bend a little more. The bottom looks good. :)
Out of interest what does it weigh?

Will weigh it for you later mate. That flat spot in the top mid limb is a cluster of pin knots that is resisting best at the minute but needs to come out. Let you know later but its very light, but still massive  :laugh:
Title: Re: Willow bow in the works (Salix caprea) Goat willow
Post by: dwardo on June 20, 2014, 12:57:01 pm
17.7 oz mate. But that's with a pretty thick handle and tips I have yet to thin.
The principal says I might get out to 26. Resisting the urge to get the heat gun out  >:D