Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: zenart on June 09, 2014, 07:54:23 am
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I love the aesthetics of a flipped tip bow with nice sinuous lines and the string angle is more balanced looking.
Do you guys think flipping the tips on longer bows, say 67 or 68" and longer, causes more risk of limb twist than it's worth?
What would be a range of less risky or more risky amount of bend?
Are there more susceptible woods than others as far as flipped tip limb twist?
And, what kind of actual performance gain is accomplished? or do you just get a smoother draw with less stack because of string angle?
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From my experience ,Smoother draw/less stack /adds a little weight and maybe a little faster. :-\ I do most of mine. Just done a 68 and and never had a problem with limb twist,just have to be careful when bending to keep everything aligned. I usuall do it after the bow in tillered out to 20 or so. :)
Pappy
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I'll second what Pappy said.
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Thanks Pappy & Will. Exactly the answer I'm lookin' for. ;) Makes sense to heat 'em midway thru tiller, hadn't thought of that.
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You can do it to start with,just make it harder to get it braces the first time and very easy to miss weight because of the early string tension. :) It's like working
a high reflex stave it can really fool you quick. :)
Pappy
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Ron, are you talking flipping the tips or recurving? Long recurves can be kind of a pain to keep in line, I like to flip the tips on mine as well but usually keep my recurves under 64'. Also the width of the bow makes a difference. Longer bows tend to be narrower. In my opinion lighter woods like maple and pecan for instance will be made wider and work a little better in longer recurves than a heavy dense wood that will be made narrow.
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"Flipping the tips"
I'm confused. I hear that a lot.
Does that mean adding reflex to the last 8 inches or so? That used to be called adding some semi recurves.
Does it mean recurving? Then there is a static recurve vs a working recurve.
Either one of those 3 will make for a smoother draw.
Yesterday, I heard the term 5 curve bow at a shoot in reference to a Japanese Yumi bow. The practitioner agreed. I think he was being polite. I should try that. :)
I've been making and breaking bows since '89 ish (not counting the bent sticks I made when I was a kid). I've been reading and dreaming about making bows since I was 10 years old (I'm 65). Never once read about a 5 curve bow. I've read about gull wing bows and Yumi bows and know what those are. I've some some too.
We seem to be inventing new terms which can be confusing to this old man.
Am I the only one confused? :)
Don't mind me, Zenart. Just having fun. Most on here know that and ignore me. :)
Jawge
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Last 6 or 8 inches Jawge,and we would never ignore you. ;) :) I try and make mine some what static with just a little movement toward the very end of the draw. :) Don't know why I call it flipping the tips,guess just came up with it,cause i don't read a lot and just what I thought it was. ;) :)
Pappy
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Pap, you use it because many do now. Gotta go. My wife is yapping at me to prune the bushes now. She wants to help. Bless her heart. This should be fun:) Jawge
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Ya I always love it when mine wants to help. ??? Seems I do it to suite her,unless she is helping ,then I can't seem to do it right. :)
Pappy
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It is a recently invented term to describe as low degree of recurving. People love to come up with new cutesy terms these days.
It's like when you are exercising and run out of energy or "steam". Nope, that's "bonking" now.
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PatM and Pap,
We use to use "bonking" to refer to something else. :)
When we were "steamed" we were mad.
BTW my wife and I are still married. LOL. Most of the pruning is done.
We are sitting on the porch eating watermelon.
Might plane some shafts later after my nap.
It's fun to watch the 3 Stooges and see how the language has changed.
Gotta beat it now.
Jawge
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We use to use "bonking" to refer to something else.
;D
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Gotta beat it now.
Jawge
:o :o :o ..waaaay to much info there jawge...do u know what that means to a younger generation ??? ::) ..... :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
This threads getting derailed...what's the question again? ??? Lol
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PatM and Pap,
We use to use "bonking" to refer to something else. :)
When we were "steamed" we were mad.
BTW my wife and I are still married. LOL. Most of the pruning is done.
We are sitting on the porch eating watermelon.
Might plane some shafts later after my nap.
It's fun to watch the 3 Stooges and see how the language has changed.
Gotta beat it now.
Jawge
Fine bowyer AND a Stooges fan! I've learned so much from your website. Thank you.
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Well when the Stoogies used "beat it", it meant leave, go.
Getting bonked to us in New England meant getting hit like getting bonked on the head.
You youn'uns need to clean up your act. :)
Jawge
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Yah, and you still use B-50 ol' fart Jawgey poo! What do you know?...;)
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Don't know, nu'in, PD.
My apologies to the OP. Did not mean to take over the thread.
I'm done.
Jawge
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"Do you guys think flipping the tips on longer bows, say 67 or 68" and longer, causes more risk of limb twist than it's worth?"
No, I do not. I think it will take away some of the set and perhaps and add 3-5 FPS, in addition to making it a smoother drawing bow.
A little limb twist is never a problem anyway and can be easily corrected if need be.
So go ahead and add some reflex in the last 8 inches or so. I've done it and it works.
Jawge
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Don't know, nu'in, PD.
My apologies to the OP. Did not mean to take over the thread.
I'm done.
Jawge
Don't get all cranky Jawgey, Im just playing around.
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Nuttin' wrong with being 65 or using B-50. I'm almost 64 and have used B-50 since I began building bows about the time George did. I have fliped tips and have been bonked and steamed...in some cases both at once. ;D
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Nothing wrong with anything anybody does or uses Pat, I was just poking fun at him since he was poking fun at us "younger" guys.
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Don't be so thin skinned Pearlie. We all know how much of a jokester you are. ;)
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Ive never actually measured what reflexed tips add to a bow, but I do know they look sexy as all get out. Even if they don't help!
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As per the original question:: " How far is too far to bend the tips?" I feel like full recurves start to bump up against the point of deminishing returns at around 64". The extra mass needed in the outer limbs for the recurve is hard to justify, longer bows tend to draw smoothly anyway and just by adding a litle reflex in the tips you get the best of both worlds. If you make the limbs too narrow they tend to get unstable.
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Me ? Cranky? LOL. Only in the morning.
Badger, I agree with you on full recurves though I do like reflexing/ semi recurving.
Jawge
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Pearly,I will give you an example. Several years ago I built a 68" straight osage longbow. It shot a very respectable 172 fps. Anything over 1170 I feel is worthy of little modifications to see it I can get it up to a flightbow performance level. I reflexed the limbs and picked it up to about 176 fps. I then flipped the tips just a little shy of contact recurve and it got me up to 182 fps, this was enough for me to set a new wprld broadhed record in the self bow class. My big tip off was that the bow didn't take any set throughout the entire process, I would not have fooled with it had it shown any sign of set..
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Ill buy that Steve. Ive always believed it mattered, I "preached" it actually. But Ive never used a chrony and could only assume it helped by the need to jump up arrow spines on occasion and the string tension at brace being much higher.
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You guys are killing me. I was just telling Steve I mainly started thread to get fellas involved but I didn't expect to be so entertained. I'm learning a WHOLE lot of stuff though (some of it more than I needed ::) ). It is interesting how language evolves and helpful to know some of you veterans have the same prob keeping up with some of these terms. I was looking for clarification and I think I got it… I think.
Flipping tips
Semi-recurve
Recurve
Full recurve
Reflex
All kinda the same, just a matter of degree.. I guess.
Thanks. Ron
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Replace full recurve with static recurve and you nailed it!
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I would take reflex out of the list.
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Tsk...Tsk..Tsk.
Y'all forgot working recurve. :)
Jawge
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Tsk...Tsk..Tsk.
Y'all forgot working recurve. :)
Jawge
In the selfbow world most seem to think that the working recurve is a mythical beast or a waste of time since it may not last.
I disagree but I just don't like them.
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Ijust recently tried a slightly working recurve and one of my curves pulled 1/2 way out almost.
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You must have been asking that one to do it all !
Spread the joy around a a tad more ! :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
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I usually have my opening up just a bit close to full draw,I have had some pull partly out on some white woods I use but Osage generally holds pretty good. :)
Pappy