Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Badger on June 04, 2014, 02:19:27 pm
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The show down thread made me think of a challenege bow thread where guys would suggest a bow that they felt would offer a challenge. It might be that someone has allready made this bow so if they posted it they made the challenge. The challenge could be anything and anybody could take it on whenever they felt like it. Example, a doug fir bow that draws at least 60# no longer than 72", or skinniest tips, or longest draw, it could be aything anyone thinks about, your suggestion may not get any takers but it might lead up to some good discussions.
Even if we have no takers on a bow challenge discussing the strategy needed to approach different challeneges could be useful.
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This should be interesting. I'm surprised that no one has really done a turtle bow competition on here, at least that I've seen.
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Glad you brought that up, lets say the challenge has to at least be an attempt to produce something useful and hopefully improved.
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This should be interesting. I'm surprised that no one has really done a turtle bow competition on here, at least that I've seen.
Here I thought that I was already in this challenge !
And close to the win.
At this point in life ,the challenge would be to get done before the friendship bow thread finishes up , but I would enjoy watching the rest of you get at them !
Guy
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I like the idea of a challenge put out to everyone, and having a cheat sheet on strategies for discussing possibly conflicting beliefs (in a bowyers sense) is something I woul love to have for a reference. what should the challenge be?
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I sure would like to see a 40# selfbow that can achieve the kinetic energy of 40 ft-lbs.
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If I was to suggest a bow then it would be something that I would find a challenge to make and this is one
Recurve not more than 65" long pulling 135# @ 32". I was asked to build such a bow a few months ago. I refused the build not because I don't think it can be done but because it would be one heck of a bow to make and I just wasn't prepared to take it on at the time. The bow can be hard-backed or self but no horn or sinew.
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Mark, your style of bow would be the perfect one for this challenge. I will give it a shot in a composite all wood.
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Heck...I'm drawing a blank....lots has been done....how bout a 1#@28" bow...lmao :laugh:
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Heck...I'm drawing a blank....lots has been done....how bout a 1#@28" bow...lmao :laugh:
now thats what I wanna see.
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Just a thought for continuity. Make a Sticky.
Maybe once 6,8,10 or whatever 'challenge bows' are suggested here then a Mod can make a Sticky listing challenges to refer to for 'check-off'. Mod then alters the Sticky to include links to the 'fulfilled challenge posts', the ones with stats, pics, discussion etc. Sticky could get updated over time as challenges come to mind and we have in one place a living reference. Otherwise, a lotta huntin' n peckin' thru the threads..
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I remember reading about a pocket bow challenge. Not sure how it was specified but it had to be a super shorty and a strong bow. If someone could come up with some specs for that I think it would be pretty cool.
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Heck...I'm drawing a blank....lots has been done....how bout a 1#@28" bow...lmao :laugh:
hey, no making fun of my first bow.
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Heck...I'm drawing a blank....lots has been done....how bout a 1#@28" bow...lmao :laugh:
Thats Awesome!!!
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I remember reading about a pocket bow challenge. Not sure how it was specified but it had to be a super shorty and a strong bow. If someone could come up with some specs for that I think it would be pretty cool.
I made a 23 inch Turkish hornbow, It shot well over 200 yds, about 35# @ 15
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How about a 65" or less, 65# at 28" bow that cannot be wider than 1" at any point. Recurves ok, but has to be 65" or less measured along the back, not straight line distance. And it has to have less than 1" set. selfbow.
Just the first thing that came to my tired mind...
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Keep it simple!
Bow with poundage same as length and the drawlength half the length?
E.G 60" long 60# @ 30"
That should be tricky enough >:D
Del
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How about a 50lb bow of any kind and Kill a deer with it,I would be in for that one. ;) :) :)
Pappy
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How about a 50lb bow of any kind and Kill a deer with it,I would be in for that one. ;) :) :)
Pappy
;D I like it.
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How about a 50lb bow from willow? Say 62ntn?
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How about a 50lb bow from willow? Say 62ntn?
Or a spaghetti bow?
Have to be careful not to bend it pasta point of no return >:D
Del
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How about a 50lb bow from willow? Say 62ntn?
Or a spaghetti bow?
Have to be careful not to bend it pasta point of no return >:D
Del
Kwar that was a stinker Degsey :laugh:
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How about a 50lb bow of any kind and Kill a deer with it,I would be in for that one. ;) :) :)
Pappy
Pappy, I used to go to Mississippi every year for about 6 years. I would give myself 1 week to build a bow, 3 arrows and a string and then kill a deer. I never succeed, I had to cheat on my string each year and go buy one.
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How about a 50lb bow from willow? Say 62ntn?
Dwardo, tried that and failed, I was about 68" long and the bow looked like an elephant bow, I don't think I got it to 20", felt like balsa wood.
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I remember reading about a pocket bow challenge. Not sure how it was specified but it had to be a super shorty and a strong bow. If someone could come up with some specs for that I think it would be pretty cool.
I made a 23 inch Turkish hornbow, It shot well over 200 yds, about 35# @ 15
That was a serious bow Mike.
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Mark, your style of bow would be the perfect one for this challenge. I will give it a shot in a composite all wood.
Steve
The string tension will be extreme especially at first brace
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Mark, your style of bow would be the perfect one for this challenge. I will give it a shot in a composite all wood.
Steve
The string tension will be extreme especially at first brace
Mark, how much reflex? I plan to give it one shot pass or fail. I decided to go self bow, Pecan. I will do a build along open for suggestions.
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Keep it simple!
Bow with poundage same as length and the drawlength half the length?
E.G 60" long 60# @ 30"
That should be tricky enough >:D
Del
With sinew? Piece of cake.
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Keep it simple!
Bow with poundage same as length and the drawlength half the length?
E.G 60" long 60# @ 30"
That should be tricky enough >:D
Del
With sinew? Piece of cake.
Nope, you can back it with cake, but not sinew >:D
Del
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How about a 50lb bow from willow? Say 62ntn?
Dwardo, tried that and failed, I was about 68" long and the bow looked like an elephant bow, I don't think I got it to 20", felt like balsa wood.
Challenge accepted in that case >:D
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Heck...I'm drawing a blank....lots has been done....how bout a 1#@28" bow...lmao :laugh:
hey, no making fun of my first bow.
Or you second, or third, or fourth >:D
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How about a 65" or less, 65# at 28" bow that cannot be wider than 1" at any point. Recurves ok, but has to be 65" or less measured along the back, not straight line distance. And it has to have less than 1" set. selfbow.
Just the first thing that came to my tired mind...
There is just such a bow in Volume 2 of TTBB. Perfectly doable in the right wood.
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Make a successful bow out of cottonwood using any dimensions you want I'd love to see it and love to try it myself just have no cottonwood right now
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Make a successful bow out of cottonwood using any dimensions you want I'd love to see it and love to try it myself just have no cottonwood right now
Easy make it 20 feet long!!
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Make a successful bow out of cottonwood using any dimensions you want I'd love to see it and love to try it myself just have no cottonwood right now
Easy make it 20 feet long!!
Ok any dimensions that are realistic !!
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Mark, your style of bow would be the perfect one for this challenge. I will give it a shot in a composite all wood.
Steve
The string tension will be extreme especially at first brace
Mark, how much reflex? I plan to give it one shot pass or fail. I decided to go self bow, Pecan. I will do a build along open for suggestions.
Steve
When I was entertaining the thought of making this bow I had as a plan to use HHB billets glued into deflex and backed with 3/16" thick Maple with a limb width of around 2". I would have heat-treated the HHB and reflexed them at the same time giving the bow 2" or 3" of reflex then glued in the rest for a total of at least 6" as a starting point for tillering. As a selfbow you will have to heat all the reflex into the limbs, I don't know how Pecan will like that. Best bet I think will be to closely pattern the bow after the last one I posted here
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Mark, the last bow you posted was basicaly what I had planned on copying, I like how you get the limbs started close to the fades with the deflex. I had planned on keeping it pretty wide right into the curves because I know that high string tension at brace will exagerate any slight misalignment. I still may go with bamboo backed ipe or osage. Haven't decided yet. I may do the pecan as more of a prototype.
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I specifically put aside what looks like a prime elm stave for this bow. I split the log in half and quartered one half. That was a mistake as some grain tearout minimized the fade area on what was to be the first draft. That one spot will govern what the rest of the stave will take. It should still make a relatively heavy bow and I can see how the wood behaves.
I still have the other half to go for the end goal.
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How about a 50lb bow of any kind and Kill a deer with it,I would be in for that one. ;) :) :)
Pappy
That is the distinct line between hunters and shooters (of any type). I wouldn't dream of ruining a good stave to make a bow like Steve did, which was cool by the way Steve. Id would much rather build a hunting bow with it. No offense to anybody fella's, but there is a drastic difference between the two "breeds" of bowyers! And Im glad for that, its a nice blend that crosses over.
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Depends on what you're hunting. That bow would be quite useful for very large game.
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How about a 50lb bow of any kind and Kill a deer with it,I would be in for that one. ;) :) :)
Pappy
That is the distinct line between hunters and shooters (of any type). I wouldn't dream of ruining a good stave to make a bow like Steve did, which was cool by the way Steve. Id would much rather build a hunting bow with it. No offense to anybody fella's, but there is a drastic difference between the two "breeds" of bowyers! And Im glad for that, its a nice blend that crosses over.
You could say "ruin" if all you have is a handful of staves and you use one to make a bow that is useless to you. But if you have a good quantity of staves and a number of hunting bows already then ruin might not apply.
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That's just it Marc. Building a useless bow to me would be ruining a stave no matter my supply, which is flush :). Either way, its just something I noticed and thought it was cool. No offense meant to anybody's efforts.
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Well then you and I are sort of on the same page, although building something that is a challenge can teach you things. I'm just a bit too busy right now for teachings :)
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My only disclaimer would be shorty's. That's getting what you can from a short stick, but Id still be shooting for a hunting weight!
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how about a backpack or quiver bow, no takedowns no backers, a short bow that can easily be transported in a quiver or backpack, hunting weight selfbow, at least 22" draw, 45# should be more than enough
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how about a backpack or quiver bow, no takedowns no backers, a short bow that can easily be transported in a quiver or backpack, hunting weight selfbow, at least 22" draw, 45# should be more than enough
Made one of those about 20 years ago. It was HHB about 36" long and pulled somewhere around 40#. Can't remember where it went now
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I like that. What are you thinking? 40-42" ttt max?
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The backpack bow challenge was already a thread on here.
http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,6409.0.html
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that's what I was thinking pearl maybe even 44"ttt
pat I never saw that post, i'll check it out
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not the same challenge Pat, they were backing most of them and could be longer than 44"ttt
42"ttt sounds doable to me pearl, how about the rest of ya
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I won't usually make a bow I have no use for but I will very often make bows that have a high risk of failure. If a bow had flight potential I can get someone else to shoot it even if I can't draw it myself. The 135# recurve Mark suggested I figure as a very high risk of failure, if I don't make it by the second try I probably won't go for a 3rd, definitely not a 4th try.
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not the same challenge Pat, they were backing most of them and could be longer than 44"ttt
42"ttt sounds doable to me pearl, how about the rest of ya
The original rules called for no sinew and 40 inches long.
I have a 42" elm with slight recurves in the basement right now. Powerful little shooter.
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seems these were the original rules, not unbacked just no sinew, not quite what I was thinking at 42"ttt and 45#
Re: Backpack bow challenge!
« Reply #43 on: April 02, 2008, 07:56:19 pm »
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Ok! Lets define the rules:
1) One peice bow. No take downs! (We want to push our limits!)
2) Bow must be less than 40" long and/or conceilable in your pack and not interfeer with your hiking.
3) No sinew! (Yep! You got it. Its a challenge!) Reason is that sinew will react to moisture and when you hike in incliment weather or cross a stream its going to get wet no matter what ya do.
4) Any material any backing goes. As long as its not sinew!
5) Bow must be strong enough to take a deer with.
6) Draw length as long as you can get away with. (Sound good to all of you?)
7) Must show a picture of bow after its built and show it strung, unstrung and concealed. Bonus - Go get a deer with it durring hunting season or any other game! ;D
Bonus #2 !!! See if you can make one that can be strung all day and still be hidden in your pack or carry container!
How do those sound?
Justin, sorry it's backed with sinew but I do like it! Looks like a blast to shoot and fun to make!
Yankee, I made 3 and only one came through but the one that did is sweet.
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How about a 50lb bow from willow? Say 62ntn?
Or a spaghetti bow?
Have to be careful not to bend it pasta point of no return >:D
Del
Very good. ;D ;D ;D
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Also I really do fancy a crack at trying a very heavy static. Mind there's heavy then there's 135# heavy..... ;D
Badger - do you know someone who could flight shoot it at one of your competitions? Like I said i'm tempted but I'd be a whole lot more tempted if I knew it was going to be shot! I'd be using bamboo/ipe.....probably using kerf cuts for the recurves and glue them in...or some naturally curved pieces.
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7) Must show a picture of bow after its built ... concealed.
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Errrr picture of it concealed ??? ::) :laugh:
Maybe like this south paw invisible bow.
Del
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Mike, 135# might be hard to find a shooter for, especially a recurve with high early draw weight. Might have to ship it off to europe.
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I can't wait until I have a few under my belt and can actually attempt to make something other than just one that will shoot.
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Bubby, I like them rules, I like this challenge, I have a good piece of osage for this... as soon as my trade bow and other projects are finished up im on this one, are we saying 45# for draw weight?
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I won't usually make a bow I have no use for but I will very often make bows that have a high risk of failure. If a bow had flight potential I can get someone else to shoot it even if I can't draw it myself. The 135# recurve Mark suggested I figure as a very high risk of failure, if I don't make it by the second try I probably won't go for a 3rd, definitely not a 4th try.
I wouldn't say a high risk of failure Steve. Maybe a high risk of it not coming out as wanted though, especially on the first attempt.
The bow I posted was 63" long with limbs just under 1 1/2" wide and pulled 60# @ 28"., I know that bow can be pulled at least another 1". Add 50% to the width and that gives the bow 90# @ 28". It wouldn't take that much extra thickness to make that 135#. Now that I think about it a 3/16" thick backing may be too thick.
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I like the idea of a heavy recurve, especially a deflexed recurve, I think I will decline on the 135# and go for about 100#. With a bamboo backed ipe I can build maybe up to 110# with a pretty normal profile I think. Will start just under 2" wide with a 100# goal, heavier if I feel I can do it.
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how about a backpack or quiver bow, no takedowns no backers, a short bow that can easily be transported in a quiver or backpack, hunting weight selfbow, at least 22" draw, 45# should be more than enough
Bub I'm your Huckleberry! ;)
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I figured you would want in on this Jon
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I have two pieces right now that will fit the bill.
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I may try to pull this off with a board, I've got some real nice short maple
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How about a 50lb bow from willow? Say 62ntn?
Been done. By a first time bow maker that only had one lesson from me...and that lesson was that he needed to stop tillering from the BACK OF THE BOW!
The moron had no idea what he was doing from the get go and took home a beaver cut peach leaf willow. He turned out a 58" nock to nock that pulled 53# at 26 inches. 4 inches of set, but no fail! Shot 425 grain arrows at 120 fps. Tiller was bad and got worse the more he shot it. It now has so much set after 9 years that it is slack at 8 inches brace...but still not broke! We called it The Propellor because of the wonderful S curve of the limbs. I gotta get Mikey to post pics of that bow online.
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How about this, max 42" ttt, 45#@ half the length of the stave minimum, if you can get more even better, you can go longer on the draw and shorter on the stave
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Im on it Bub;
no sinew backing
42ttt max length
45# minimum draw wieght @ 24+"
must be concealable in a daypack
Bonus points for concealed all day strung and/or proof of killing ability
Finishin up other items then Im all over this
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How about a 50lb bow from willow? Say 62ntn?
Been done. By a first time bow maker that only had one lesson from me...and that lesson was that he needed to stop tillering from the BACK OF THE BOW!
The moron had no idea what he was doing from the get go and took home a beaver cut peach leaf willow. He turned out a 58" nock to nock that pulled 53# at 26 inches. 4 inches of set, but no fail! Shot 425 grain arrows at 120 fps. Tiller was bad and got worse the more he shot it. It now has so much set after 9 years that it is slack at 8 inches brace...but still not broke! We called it The Propellor because of the wonderful S curve of the limbs. I gotta get Mikey to post pics of that bow online.
Fair enough. I do have a willow stave that's been hiding in the pile for months so will give it a shot and see what happens.
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How about this, max 42" ttt, 45#@ half the length of the stave minimum, if you can get more even better, you can go longer on the draw and shorter on the stave
Bub I'm not trying to be "that" guy ;) but this is easily doable. Let's add a certain amount of allowable set into the challenge.
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I think so too Jon, just interested to see what comes up, i'm actually thinking about deflexing it and flipping the tips kind of a shorter version of my halfeye bow
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I just got done with the floor tiller on my first try. 38" of Osage goodness. Might try to get it braced this evening. I'd guess its around 55#.
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How about a 50lb bow from willow? Say 62ntn?
Been done. By a first time bow maker that only had one lesson from me...and that lesson was that he needed to stop tillering from the BACK OF THE BOW!
The moron had no idea what he was doing from the get go and took home a beaver cut peach leaf willow. He turned out a 58" nock to nock that pulled 53# at 26 inches. 4 inches of set, but no fail! Shot 425 grain arrows at 120 fps. Tiller was bad and got worse the more he shot it. It now has so much set after 9 years that it is slack at 8 inches brace...but still not broke! We called it The Propellor because of the wonderful S curve of the limbs. I gotta get Mikey to post pics of that bow online.
Fair enough. I do have a willow stave that's been hiding in the pile for months so will give it a shot and see what happens.
Go 2" wide, extra long, and really really really take your time at tillering! And set your expectations low, this wood won't make anything particularly fast, but it can be done!
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Why willow? How about a bow from any 2x4?
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Not sure if you followed the thread within this thread, but willow HAS made a functional bow AND Dwardo (a rather talented and experienced bowyer) has a stave that he would like to challenge himself with.
Feel free to up the ante with a 2x4. This is a challenge bow thread, in case you had missed that part.
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Earlier I said I wanted to see a 40# self bow that can shoot 40 ft-lbs. I guess that would be probably impossible. I might try to build a 50# self bow that can generate 40 ft-lbs. I'm not sure I'll be able to do that soon. But I know that it is definitely possible and there are plenty of people here who have done it. I also would like to see any self bow made from any 2x4 of any kind. I might as well look for a straight grained 2x4 whenever I go to the lumber store.
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Earlier I said I wanted to see a 40# self bow that can shoot 40 ft-lbs. I guess that would be probably impossible. I might try to build a 50# self bow that can generate 40 ft-lbs. I'm not sure I'll be able to do that soon. But I know that it is definitely possible and there are plenty of people here who have done it. I also would like to see any self bow made from any 2x4 of any kind. I might as well look for a straight grained 2x4 whenever I go to the lumber store.
This is a good challenege, I know it has been done but not often. 190 fps from a 50# bow shooting 500 grains is 40ft#'s. If you take a bow storing a lot of energy and load it up with a very heavy arrow it is not so hard to achieve. I have experimented with 3000 grain arrows fired through chronos as a way of measuring stored energy. Bows tend to become very efficient when the load goes up.