Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: blackhawk on June 03, 2014, 07:31:11 pm
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Made this up at marshall...didn't really like it there....brought it back thinking the mc was maybe a lil high yet so I hotboxed it and it didn't really lose any significant percentage...so I decided to keep shooting tonight...it started to moan on me like the sick ole dog of a bow it was...it never made any noises up in marshall on me however...I didn't really like the tiller on it either and it felt like it was maybe upper 40's poundage wise at the most...which is fine but the cast for it was not up to my standards...at this point I considered it firewood,and decided to make some video fun....plus we all like to see bows blow..admit it folks..you do :laugh: it was 66"ntn ..lol..now its about 46" :laugh:
http://youtu.be/ZoevdKaF6ko
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Love it 8).
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I've had my share of bows break, most of the time they go with a loud bang. Can't say I've ever intentionally broken one though
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I bet that made you nervous. When you were working on that at Marshall I was hoping it would turn out nice. Oh well I guess.
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Kinda surprised
White oak is tuff stuff
Oh well sometimes things just ain't meant to be.
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I've never seen someone with that big a smile as in the last seconds of the footage when they've just broken a bow less than a minute ago! :P
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Its not osage. What else did you expect? >:D
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I figure its a good learning experience Marc...and I see no point in putting bandaids on bows anymore,and I'd never enjoy it or trust it...so I might as well enjoy breaking it ;)
Me too Paul...I had fun doing it :)
I ain't gonna lie Ryan,that did make me nervous...but no biggy about it not working out..I got plenty of better bows,n will always make more...
I was kinda surprised it went so early to guy...maybe heartwood is weaker in tension,or this certain piece of wood was??? Or my tiller just sucked...lol... I have more from this tree and I'll try some more to torture in the future
Thanks darksoul >:D guess i ain't right in the head...or I've just made n broke so many I don't care anymore
Your prob right Clint ::)
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That was fun to watch! You got more nerve than me Chris, if I knew one was about to explode I wouldn't pull it by hand to make it happen. I'd just hand it to someone else to draw and not say anything. :D
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Man what timing! I finished my post on shakin not breakin and then I see this. Love it man. I like the form; straight up and down. Do ya hold it a little different when you know its gonna snap?
Thanks for the post Blackie.
doobs
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SWEET! good on the eye protection. We have one that has a great patch job and probably 600 shots on it now. If it ever starts to be noisy I will break out the video.
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Smart man to wear glasses. I have had some close calls.
Yep it broke in tension, but it still was in one piece, so that white oak is still pretty tough stuff.
Glad you had fun. :)
Hamish.
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*tick tick* ;D
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I never have broke one on purpose while drawing the bow, had several over the years surprise me and break. That surprised me, it was a pretty gentle break.
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Great vid. It's weird hearing someone's voice for the first time :). Ballsy for sure, pulling on that thing. 8)
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I agree completely with the "no bandaids" statement. If a piece of wood doesn't want to be a bow, trash it, and NEXT! There will always be more. Cool video. That was about as dramatic a break as white oak will make. It usually just folds up, breaking down in compression till it's in a knot.
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........ :laugh: to funny, as long as its not your face. ::) Ya think backing it with something like sinew or 1/8" would of helped...?
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Cool video, it had a good old bend on it before giving way.
On the subject of 'band aids' I think it depends on the wood and the philosophy.
Ages a go I visited a private bow museum. It was a real eye opener, a lot of Victorian target bows, mostly Yew, they had tiny nocks and some had Yew backs on Yew bellies, many had belly patches.
What is the difference between a band aid, a belly patch, a back patch and a backed bow?
Is plugging a knot a band aid?
What about a crack across the belly? The bow will draw up fine even with a crack half way through! But it's prudent to patch it. I think the ability to make effective well thought out repairs is a vital part in the bowyer's armoury.
Not everyone has a huge stash of seasoned Osage to choose from! Sometimes you have to work with what you have, and that's the challenge.
It's also that trade off between the slightly obsessive compulsive that makes us take on those character staves, the desire to finish what we started tempered with wanting perfection. Bow making like life is a compromise, just 'cos something isn't perfect you don't just chuck it....else Mrs Cat would have ditched me long ago >:D
I think each bow is unique, breaking one on purpose is fine, I'm all for experimenting and pushing the boundaries, but I also feel that experimenting with what a fix will acheive is also valid.
I had a long running debate with a respected bowyer as to whether a thin linnen binding soaked in glue did anything to support a chrysalled area. We remained in dissagreement, and that's part of the fun. I argued that next time he fractures his arm, he shouldn't bother with the plaster cast ;)
Anyhow, I'm not trying to argue, but to maybe open up a discussion or a can of beer.
Cheers
Del
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Del a full linen backing applied evenly will actually put more stress on the chrysal >:D
Hey Blackhawk i'm glad somebody else does this sort of thing. Pulling any bow until it breaks teaches you an awful lot. Especially on a bow with perfect tiller. I don't get precious about bows anymore even if it's a good un! How can you learn where the limits are if you don't explore how far you can go.
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Cool video Chris,enjoyed that. ;)
Pappy
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Del a full linen backing applied evenly will actually put more stress on the chrysal >:D
Ooooh, you tease monkey! I said binding not backing.
Not that it's something I make a habit of. I consider a bow with chrysals a 'give away', experimental or an illustration of what chrysals look like. They make me sick to my stomach dirty nasty horrid things >:(
If you tease I'll tell Mrs Cat of you, then you'll be in trouble :laugh:
Del
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Lol Greg :laugh:
Dooby I'm just holding more up n down,and not leaning my head into it,and not pulling it into my anchor point(aka my face)
Badger I was glad to see it go gently ;) how a wood breaks can tell you a lot about the wood as ya know
Pretty cool the belly didn't wanna give huh Howard :)
I have no idea bow101...can't say for sure one way or another...Ive had a couple "repaired" ones still let loose under the repair,and some are OK. And sinew backing it would've been a waste of MY time to find out one way or another
Glad ya enjoyed it to pappy!! ;)
Del...this one was a "gonner" and not worth the try IMHO...I wished y'all coulda seen the crack in the video but it didn't show up well...like I said to someone else I have had a couple still fail under a sinew wrap,or a rawhide patch with a rawhide backing over the top of that...as bad as that crack was there was not even consideration for it based on my experiences with fixes...I'll plug a knot if the wood and or bow shows promise...but like i said this one showed none of that....I'd rather be done with it and move on cus I DO have osage ;) Also since I'm a bowyer myself I can make another one,and also have plenty of good and better bows....your points are valid tho...especially back then and even now because not everyone is/was a bow maker...if a person wasn't then yes its worth trying to patch it....its like getting a flat tire on the car...your not gonna throw your car away and buy a new one when you can pay way less to fix it...and yes your right incouldve experimented the other way and do a repair and see how long and if it holds...but whos got time for that? Not me ;) I'd rather be shooting a bow I enjoy...either way tho I and we can still learn from the choice I did make with it...and here's some food for thought....
I've always had a theory about this,but can't prove it positively...I think sometimes when a splinter,crack pops on a bow it can weaken the area bending wise(almost a hinge but not quite a huge noticeable one)....meaning it can cause it to put more stress on the belly...if ya think about it that splinter is now unattached to the wood now and becomes a much thinner area....I don't think it happens in every case and scenario,but I have seen it happen...so I have been studying this pretty intensely... I swear I can almost see the tiller very subtlety changing right when those ticks happen....it looks like that area weakened by a smidgen...thoughts from anyone else on this possible phenomena, or concur or disagree with me..I could be wrong?
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I have noticed that also Chris,especially if the splinter is in a stressful area, if I hear the dreaded tick and can't see the splinter as is sometimes the case I always look at the brace tiller first and it will sometimes show where to look harder. :)
Only make sense. :)
Pappy
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So if we do locate the area by either means pappy...wouldn't it make sense and be wise to scrape above and below the area and reduce its weight to now alleviate that area some and patch it of course along with that...that's if one would want to save the bow and or continue on with it....so shouldn't we be telling folks who have splinters pop to scrape above and below the area,and reduce the weight down as well as telling them to patch it? Makes sense to me...and would give it a better chance of surviving...
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Good thoughts,never really thought about that. ??? I would suspect your best chance for it to make it and the patch/wrap to hold would be to treat it like a hinge or fret. :)
Pappy
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4 words.................Long Live the King!
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4 words.................Long Live the King!
Sorry pal,but osage ain't immune to splinters either :P :-X 8)
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Good thoughts,never really thought about that. ??? I would suspect your best chance for it to make it and the patch/wrap to hold would be to treat it like a hinge or fret. :)
Pappy
Looks like you can teach an ole dog new tricks... ;) I know I learned something today...it only makes sense to my pea brain...why did this break? It couldn't take the load I was asking of it...so reduce the load on it
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That was fun to watch! When it comes to lifting splinters...gotta go with Hickory. Too bad it turns into a wet noodle this time of year, down here.
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Bet you loved that! Would you say it was that piece that was no good or are you critical of all white oak now? ::) Of course, we all know you to be critical of anything that isn't yellow. Long live his excellency. :)
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I would have broken it on a tillering tree. I had my share of broken bows, mostly white oak and I still have several more white oak bows with tiny cracks, I might try to repair. I must have done something wrong with those white oak staves. Not sure if that's possible but they might have been frozen because I kept them outdoors over the winter.
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I've had 3 or 4 hickories pop splinters on me as well Parnell,and all were from different sources and trees...so from my experiences with it I don't put as much stock into it as some other people do... :-\
Just a bad piece maybe Cody...the oaks have been funny to me...some have been excellent,some so so n just ok-ish,and some suck or are brittle like...I'm starting to not care what color the wood is anymore....they all can break....lol. :laugh:
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Loved the intro....
This,Is a piece of crap bow.LOL!!!!!
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That was fun to watch.
Thanks for sharing.
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Thanks for sharing that Chris. I think you are on the right track when you suspected heartwood isnt as strong in tension as sapwood in white oak.
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Nice video Chris, and funny. I think I heard a couple ticks, but could not see the crack in the close-up. The end result was plane enough.