Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Red Dwarf on December 31, 2007, 09:08:59 pm
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Could one of you experienced guys please define a "selfbow" for me?
Red Dwarf
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A bow that has not been laminated, A board bow or bow made from a log or limb. Usually made with white wood by removing the bark and shaping the bow. With Osage or wood with sapwood,chasing a single growth ring and then shaping. Or you can leave the sapwood on in some wood.
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What about backing??
Red Dwarf
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My personal opinion is a backed backed with anything,sinew,hide ,or bark is backed. For Bow of the Month,hide and sinew backed qualify as self bows.
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....................As Eddie said. Ifn ya want a pure definition it has ta be a single piece of wood NO billets. .................bob
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I'm like Eddie, I consider sinew, rawhide, and such backings, I wouldn't consider something like a snakeskin or thin bark just for cosmetic purposes to be a backing.
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I agree with mullet. no backing of any kind.
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Same as hillbilly, decorative backings may be considered a finish, but if the backing is protecting the bow from blowing it is backed. Billets are totally acceptable as self bows as well as built up handles and tip overlays. Extended kerfing on recurves may eliminate a bow as a selfbow even though it really is a self bow. This is the defination used by the flight committees. Steve
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In my humble, somewhat inexperienced yet observational opinion a self bow in its purest form would be a single piece of wood with no laminations or structuraly relevent backings. I think a semi modified definition would include built up handles cut from the same stave/board.... Danny
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The standard definition for a selfbow is that it is one piece of wood or 2 spliced at the handle. No backing of any sort. If it is backed it is a backed bow.
Jawge
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The term "backed bow" has led to confusion.
Perhaps the term as used for "Backed" Bow of the Month should be Laminant Bow of the Month. ie., ElBow or LBow, LBOM, whatever >:D
Seriously, though, Mullet, and the rest have a good point about what is a "backed bow".
I must say, though, that if bows from billets are not self bows then I'm out of the self bow business. Because of the less-than-desireable wood I find in Western Montana, I have come to use billets, frequently.
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I could be wrong but I think many of the TBB authors refer to them as selfbows /backed selfbows-----seems pretty simple. Also backed selfbows are nothing NEW. Chasing to one ring? Thats not the oldest style of selfbow either----get my point?
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Selfbow- a chunk of wood whitteled into a bow :)
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Seems like there is a little confusion out there.
Who, or what organisation should we be looking to for a definitive answer?
Red Dwarf
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Red Dwarf----How far back in history do you want to go? What region? Are you sure theres only one defined answer? ;)
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"Selfbows" are made using a wide range of tools...from stone tools exclusively, to purchased tools such as bandsaws and beltsanders. In my opinion unbacked wood bows from billets should be considered selfbows even though typically a modern type tool such as a bandsaw is used for the splice. The majority of us use some form of modern tool in the building of a one piece selfbow. If billet bows were excluded from the selfbow category, you potentially exclude many people from participating due to their lack of access to quality full length staves.
I agree that "decorative" materials such as snake skins and thin barks (birch bark for instance) should be considered a selfbow still. The debate gains momentum when decussing from what point a glued material on the bows back crosses the line from "solely decorative", to adding some level of protection for the bow against breaking. A sinew backed bow adds protection as well as potential increased strength and performance, but is still considered a selfbow and is also an example of primitive construction. Some fish skins and rawhide most likely add some protection to the bow although not usually increased performance. With the almost unlimited range of potential backings, it could be a long winded debate as to where the line is drawn. Maybe the process involved in attaching the backing itself should be considered as a deciding factor between selfbow and backed bow. If the back of the bow is left in its natural shape with dips and uneven surfaces prior to applying the "plyable" backing, then it is still considered a selfbow. If the back of the bow is worked full length of the limbs to attain an even surface required for the gluing of a laminate, then it is considered a backed bow or laminated bow. I agree with Oldbow that perhaps the wording should be changed to "laminated bow" to help cut down on confusion. :)
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I guess that, primarly, I was curious to learn if there was a "standard" recognized definitation used by Archery Clubs etc. for organized events.
When is a backing not a backing.....?
Red Dwarf
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Nope, LOL, no confusion here. Just that nobody wants to accept it. I gave you the standard daffynition. Let me elucidate it one more time. The term "self" refers to a homogeneity of materials. Thus, any other material but 1 piece of wood (or 2 joined at the handle) makes it something other than a "self" bow. The snakeskin does nothing to protect the back; nevertheless it is the back. Therefore, it is a backed bow. Back with hickory, sinew, silk, linen, rawhide - it is a backed bow. Glue on 3 different lams of wood and make it a laminated bow. 3 different materials, not wood, -say sinew, wood, horn- make a composite bow. :) Jawge
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Jawge is absolutely right, the only item I am aware of that is up for some debate is weather or not snake skin should be considered a finish or a backing. I rechecked my primitive flight rules and presently snakeskin is recognised as a backing but could be changed in the future. Tip overlays less than 1 1/2" long of any natural material do not disqualify a selfbow. Steve
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I agree, Badger. Tip overlays and horn nocks still make a selfbow a "self"bow. Jawge
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As for organised events, most 3D shoots and such usually just have a "primitive" class-natural material bows meaning no fiberglass and wood/cane arrows. Some allow synthetic strings and commercial field pointsin the primitive class, some don't.
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George, I stand corrected----went back and checked my TBB's and they refer to it as unbacked 'wood' bows and sinew/rawhide/snakeskin backed 'wood' bows. And while their examples are of a one piece homogeneous bow, they don't refer to it as 'self', even before the backing was applied.
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No problem, Glenn. :) Jawge