Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Arrows => Topic started by: beartail on May 26, 2014, 10:54:51 pm
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I got 9 shafts straightened knocked. I plan on ordering some feathers soon as I can.i haven't had much luck with wood stains on cane because of the natural sheen on it.I have used shoe die and it dos a little better.i plan on getting black feathers and dyeing both ends of the shafts and leaving the middle natural.kinda fadeing the black toward the middle.i think that will look cool.im gonna make my points out of 20 penny nails.witch would you use,dye or stain.and how would you seal them.would you use no sealant? like I mentioned,river cane has a waxy like coatin. would that be suffishant?
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You need to scrape and sand the shiny rind off if you want it to take a stain at all, this rind is not water proof, I don't make many arrows but I seal with poly and haven't had problems
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I've just made myself 6 hill cane arrows. After straightening I scraped the rind off and sealed with 2 coats of Tru-Oil. I like cane arrows natural color or scorched decoration.
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I have never sealed cane..it has a waxy rhine which is good enough for the Indians ..well its good enough for me... no need to seal it anyway...quit trying to make something so simple complicated... over analyzing .. have fun and Keep it simple...
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I scrape all mine clean and seal with tung oil, tru oil or just paste wax. I have left some raw and found that if lost for a night, they get all spongey and crappy fast. Hence why I over-complicate them with a sealer.
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thats odd cause even the standing dead cane I find isn't spongy.... I have had cane out over a month..where the deer toted off shaft and dropped it..found later..still not spongy but was broken....where you at Pearl?...another thing..this cane I got is purple some green too hardens yellow still...great stuff...
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I would not use standing dead cane. It takes on rot very quickly.
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Im in Michigan, but my Hill cane comes from NC.
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never said I use standing dead cane..I don't..its just not spongy unless its been on ground a while..
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I have never used Hill cane..but would assume properties are the same..maybe just not as durable as river cane...I have spoke with many about my rivercane..being purple and no one has ever heard of purple cane..lol...its tough stuff...
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Id bet standing dead doesn't absorb the moisture a shaft lying on the ground would. Ive never used river cane but have been told my many that Hill cane is much, much stronger and has thicker walls. I cant confirm that. I can say Ive shot the same 4 hill cane arrows for two years running with no breaks, and Im one sucky shot! Just ask my friends who help find my arrows every other target.
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interesting....one of the many great things about river cane is spine tolerance..I can shoot cane with 15 lb range and fly perfect...of course they are foreshafted... tough as carbon, lightweight (one reason foreshafting improves penetration and FOC) water resistant naturally, easily straightened , and quite honestly the easiest type of arrow to make... plus NOTHING looks cooler than a foreshafted cane arrow with turkey feathers tied with sinew...and a stone point...it is the epitome of primitive.. gut
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.I have spoke with many about my rivercane..being purple and no one has ever heard of purple cane..lol...its tough stuff...
I've seen it. Even some pink stuff out there when it's younger. I gathered some last time I was in GA.
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what part of Ga. did you find it?..Im in Newnan..west central close to bama..
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I recently made 6 hill cane arrows from cane that was cut in 2006, 30" long, 5/16" at the nock, 3/8" at the point with 125gr points and they weigh between 552gr to 606gr. These were sealed with 2 coats of Tru-Oil, have self nocks(no inserts) with sinew wrap and the forward end of the fletching has sinew wrap.
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I recently made 6 hill cane arrows from cane that was cut in 2006, 30" long, 5/16" at the nock, 3/8" at the point with 125gr points and they weigh between 552gr to 606gr. These were sealed with 2 coats of Tru-Oil, have self nocks(no inserts) with sinew wrap and the forward end of the fletching has sinew wrap.
Boy.. I'd like to see those....what kind of point did you put on them, Pat.... glue on field??
DBar
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Field points for now, DBar. I can add stone, trades or commercial points for hunting easily enough.
I'll get a few pics and post them.
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...and here they are. I bare shaft shot these (a first for me) and the ones with the white fletch hit the target broadside at about 10 yards. The ones fletched with barred turkey feathers all shot straight when shot bare shaft. After fletching they all fly well but the white fletched arrows have a bit of wobble. They are a bit too stiff. The barred feathers are secondary precuts that someone sent me. They are a bit noisy but it doesn't affect the flight.
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/2014hillcanearrows003_zpsf4f06932.jpg) (http://s5.photobucket.com/user/PatBNC/media/2014hillcanearrows003_zpsf4f06932.jpg.html)
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/2014hillcanearrows001_zpsa9408da2.jpg) (http://s5.photobucket.com/user/PatBNC/media/2014hillcanearrows001_zpsa9408da2.jpg.html)
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/2014hillcanearrows002_zpsde3ec448.jpg) (http://s5.photobucket.com/user/PatBNC/media/2014hillcanearrows002_zpsde3ec448.jpg.html)
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Thanks Pat, those look really nice.
"hit the target broadside at about 10 yards" Ha, I've had some that was fletched do that! :o ;D
Really like your nocks, I've heated some with a candle that was shaped like yours and pinched the tips together just a bit, made self "snap on" nocks. Works well when hunting.
Thanks again for posting pics
DBar
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Bill try drilling a small 3 or 5/32 hole a 3/8" down the nock end. Then cut in the groove. It will create a snap feel without heat. Learned that from staring at Artsy's work. Mr Butner builds one of the best arrows Ive seen.
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Bill try drilling a small 3 or 5/32 hole a 3/8" down the nock end. Then cut in the groove. It will create a snap feel without heat. Learned that from staring at Artsy's work. Mr Butner builds one of the best arrows Ive seen.
I will echo what pearly said especially about Art's arrows I have one and it amazing.
Grady
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I like to leave the rind on when possible, but if the arrow needs lightened in spine, I'll scrape it without any worries. I also barrel taper them after the last node.. which of course takes the rind off... I don't seal any of my cane arrows and I have only on one occasion had them go crooked. It was a night that was hot and humid, then in poured all night and I left them under the fly of my tent, but with the hard rain, they got soaked anyways, then a cold front came in... by morning they were very warped. So rule #1, don't leave them outside the tent..lol ever since I have brought them inside with me and that day still remains the only day that I had any problems from not sealing. I can hunt in the rain without any problem, so long as i bring them in at night to dry. I think the temperature swing was as much at fault as the moisture.
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pat not sure how well the feathers are gonna stay and I guess if I just glued my feathers on I would scrap rine off...but I peel my feathers and leave a tab on front and back and sinew wrap them on...I never lose any feathers...looks like yours are already coming off.. nice looking arrows bro...
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Gut, where the feathers go over the nock at the rear they seem to be lifting a bit. I used fletch tape to mount the fletching. When I have left the rind on I would lightly sand the area with very fine emory cloth before fletching. The forward end of the fletching has been wrapped with sinew.
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Good question and answers. Recently I had some unsealed shafts split in several locations after getting wet from rain and then drying in the sun. I didn't even think to look at the cane until several days later because the rain came and went so fast that I didn't think it would matter.
Lesson learned. I always seal my rivercane shafts with paste wax now. I peel the rind off and dry the shafts completely (air dry) before sealing, though. I also paint or stain the shafts before sealing: the wax will not allow anything to stick.
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Jack those shafts appear to of been sanded down and not sealed...that is probably why you had issues..I have hunted in wet conditions..( not a great idea with selfbows anyway..) and never had a problem with my cane arrows warping or splitting. My cane arrows are over 7 years old......of course they are in a plains style quiver that keeps them out of the elements too... bottom line and back on topic...I have found it unnecessary to seal cane... but to each his own...not saying its a bad idea just sayin I find it unnecessary...btw great topic great question and good opinions on both sides.... gut
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Gut, yeah, they were raw shafts and not sealed. And the rind was completely scraped off. I don't leave them in that raw state for very long anymore, and definitely not on a finished arrow.
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Sealed or not? Its hard to beat a cane arrow for durability, spine tolerance and weight. Love 'em. I make them quite plain. Usually 3 whites wrapped on or 3 naturals wrapped on. Cut a nock in a shoot!
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Jack had you not scraped the rhine off and they got wet I honestly don't think you would of had an issue.... and Pearl I agree cane is by far the best IMO for primitive arrows... can't disagree with that bro...gut
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Yep, the cane I have that is unpeeled is fine and never had a problem with cracking or splitting with it. I just like the clean look of the peeled cane. :)
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I like the how the cane ages to. It turns to a caramel'ish color as it ages. Love the stuff! I guess I could be labeled a "Canehead":)
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Patrick, are those hill cane? they look like it. Probably your dry climate has a lot to do with them cracking(I guess checking).
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I like to scrape the rind off because it gives it more of a wood grain look. Lately I've been experimenting with putting burn marks on the cane.
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Those burn marks looked cool Clint. I am going to do that with my hunting arrows.
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Ive been burning my cane since day one..and yes it looks cool too...lol.. gut
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Nice batch gut.
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Thanks... 8)
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(http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r55/clintanders/Snapbucket/5E623B71.jpg)
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Show off.......
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lol... what is that orange thingamabob on the end...lol...sweet arrows
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That makes it easier for ME to find his arrows behind the target gut:)
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The wheelie guys have the little flashing lights in their nocks. Maybe the next step is nocks with sirens and maybe ones that shoot off flares ;D ;D
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Those are easy nocks ;D They save me a lot of time.
Pearly usually finds my arrow while he is looking for his behind the target.
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interesting....one of the many great things about river cane is spine tolerance..I can shoot cane with 15 lb range and fly perfect...of course they are foreshafted... tough as carbon, lightweight (one reason foreshafting improves penetration and FOC) water resistant naturally, easily straightened , and quite honestly the easiest type of arrow to make... plus NOTHING looks cooler than a foreshafted cane arrow with turkey feathers tied with sinew...and a stone point...it is the epitome of primitive.. gut
What does FOC mean?
Cipriano
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front of center, by adding a foreshaft it moves your FOC forward .. so for example your balance point is let's say mid shaft..adding foreshaft move the balance spot forward ... or FOC
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Cane and hardwood shoot arrows are FOC by their tapered nature.
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I think cane makes the toughest arrow of any material. At the classic, I shot that steel fox twice and missed the hole twice (can you imagine that :D).... It makes a nice ringing sound when a field point hits it announcing to all of Twin Oaks that someone just missed the bonus points again. Pretty cool. There are broken parts of arrows laying all around the steel fox and a log with a row of broken arrows as a testament to how many folks have broken arrows on it. I rang the bell twice with a glue on field point on a river cane arrow. The second shot the, point glue broke loose. I had to reglue the point when I got home. That arrow is still in my quiver. I acquired some of Pat B's hill cane and look forward to making some arrows with it. If it is tougher than our river cane, then it is some really tough stuff. I think cane is more durable than aluminum. I don't put a foreshaft in my arrows either. I wrap a little thread and glue behind the point and the self nock and they seem to hold up fine.
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dang!!a bunch of answers !! I agree too that you just cant beat cane as an all around awesome primitive shafting with its ease of straightning in combonation with its toughness.only thing that beats it in toughness is privet.