Primitive Archer

Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: PAHunter on May 13, 2014, 05:49:09 pm

Title: Powerful wood scraper?
Post by: PAHunter on May 13, 2014, 05:49:09 pm
I'm currently using a Banco 5'' scraper.  it works but removes very little wood per scrape.  it can literally take several 100 scrapes to change the tiller of a bow, so I usually end up doing some rasping first.  I'm looking for a scraper that removes a larger amount of wood, so that I can do say 20 scrapes per side instead of 200.  Thanks!
Title: Re: Powerful wood scraper?
Post by: BOWMAN53 on May 13, 2014, 06:04:37 pm
Just use a rasp if you need to remove that much wood. honestly i do most of my tillering with a rasp but you have to be really careful.
Title: Re: Powerful wood scraper?
Post by: huisme on May 13, 2014, 06:05:13 pm
I use my machete with a fresh edge.

Edit: sorry, it's a Khukri. Allows me to control the shape of the belly pretty well.
Title: Re: Powerful wood scraper?
Post by: Onebowonder on May 13, 2014, 06:09:06 pm
I find a good compromise between a scraper and a full out rasp is a Shinto Rasp.  Cuts very evenly and has both an aggressive side and a finer side.  Several places carry them.  They look like they are made from hacksaw blades...

OneBow
Title: Re: Powerful wood scraper?
Post by: Pat B on May 13, 2014, 06:38:56 pm
Have you dressed the edges of your scraper? That will make a big difference. IMO, a scraper shouldn't remove too much wood anyway but a good edge will give you a good curl of wood with each scrape.
Title: Re: Powerful wood scraper?
Post by: scp on May 13, 2014, 06:58:20 pm
I would use a block plane and/or a Mora Woodcarver's Draw Knife as a scraper.
Title: Re: Powerful wood scraper?
Post by: Weylin on May 13, 2014, 08:56:10 pm
Have you dressed the edges of your scraper? That will make a big difference. IMO, a scraper shouldn't remove too much wood anyway but a good edge will give you a good curl of wood with each scrape.

This. I finally learned how to do the edges right on my scraper and it makes a WORLD of difference. I do it a couple of times per bow, more with harder wood.
Title: Re: Powerful wood scraper?
Post by: George Tsoukalas on May 13, 2014, 08:59:43 pm
Rasp and then scrape. That way you won't have much cleaning up to do at the end. Jawge
Title: Re: Powerful wood scraper?
Post by: DarkSoul on May 13, 2014, 09:00:21 pm
A good edge and burr on your scrapers is essential. It does make a world of a difference.
Myself, I started using a paint scraper with handle, like this:
(http://www.stortz.com/Portals/92/SmithCart/Images/352_a.jpg)
I can hold it much better than a card scraper and hence I can apply a lot more pressure. It also needs a good edge, but if it does have the proper edge, it works very fast and can make enormous wood curls.
Title: Re: Powerful wood scraper?
Post by: Newindian on May 13, 2014, 09:53:24 pm
I have two scrapers one is a store bought card kind the other is a small kitchen knife which leaves a little less fine of a finish but removes a bit more material.for most of the more major wood removal I use a Shinto. So try out a cheap knife and if that doesn't work get a Shinto,  or get one anyways they along with the scrapers have improved the quality of my bows more then any other tool
Title: Re: Powerful wood scraper?
Post by: toomanyknots on May 13, 2014, 10:01:59 pm
I use my machete with a fresh edge.

Edit: sorry, it's a Khukri. Allows me to control the shape of the belly pretty well.

I got a beautiful meat cleaver which I adore. It holds a razor sharp edge. I use it mostly though for roughing out staves after switching from a hatchet. I never had any problem with a scrapper not removing enough material. Make sure you do a good job of rolling the bur, it's important.
Title: Re: Powerful wood scraper?
Post by: toomanyknots on May 13, 2014, 10:04:28 pm
A good edge and burr on your scrapers is essential. It does make a world of a difference.
Myself, I started using a paint scraper with handle, like this:
(http://www.stortz.com/Portals/92/SmithCart/Images/352_a.jpg)
I can hold it much better than a card scraper and hence I can apply a lot more pressure. It also needs a good edge, but if it does have the proper edge, it works very fast and can make enormous wood curls.

You wouldn't have to worry about it getting hot either like a card scraper.
Title: Re: Powerful wood scraper?
Post by: osage outlaw on May 13, 2014, 11:09:51 pm
My scraper can hog off a thick ribbon of osage.  I made it out of a circular saw blade.  I put a good burr on it 3-4 years ago and haven't had to touch it up since.  I use it on every bow.  I think the secret to a great scraper is the quality of the metal and the quality of the burr you put on it.
Title: Re: Powerful wood scraper?
Post by: Badger on May 13, 2014, 11:23:50 pm
My scraper can hog off a thick ribbon of osage.  I made it out of a circular saw blade.  I put a good burr on it 3-4 years ago and haven't had to touch it up since.  I use it on every bow.  I think the secret to a great scraper is the quality of the metal and the quality of the burr you put on it.

    I wish I could get my edge to last that long! I do all my tillering with a flat cabinet scraper but usually have to sharpen it a couple of times on each bow. I like the amount of wood it removes.
Title: Re: Powerful wood scraper?
Post by: Pat B on May 13, 2014, 11:25:07 pm
Get a cheap pair of scissors, remove the rivet and you have 2 good scrapers.
Title: Re: Powerful wood scraper?
Post by: H Rhodes on May 13, 2014, 11:41:05 pm
My favorite tool lately has become a Glock field knife....  I had the thing for years laying in my junk drawer.  It really was an odd sort of a knife and I never found much use for it.  A while back I put a burr on it with my belt sander and started using it as a scraper.  It works great and holds an edge through several bows.  Since that time, I have started using it in place of a hatchet for some of the finer roughing out stages.  That works good for me, especially with seasoned osage, which loves handtools more than any other wood.  I have also used it to make belly splits on osage staves, hammering the blade down through a stave from end to end.  The doggone knife is really proving to be a pretty good bow building tool for me and tougher than i expected.  I have beat on the back of the blade with a 1 1/8th lb Ball peen hammer splitting out belly splits and it is no worse for the wear.  Glock ought to be proud!   Osage bows usually only see four tools used by me - hatchet, knife, farrier's rasp and a rat tailed file for the string nocks.   
Title: Re: Powerful wood scraper?
Post by: arachnid on May 14, 2014, 12:29:39 am
I made a "bowyering scraper" from a putty knife. Very easy to make and very efficient. But, as the guys here said, you have to have the right edge and burr.

I posted a build a long on youtube. It's in hebrew, but it's easy to understand what to do.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LRWylnSawGQ
Title: Re: Powerful wood scraper?
Post by: Badger on May 14, 2014, 01:04:55 am
My favorite tool lately has become a Glock field knife....  I had the thing for years laying in my junk drawer.  It really was an odd sort of a knife and I never found much use for it.  A while back I put a burr on it with my belt sander and started using it as a scraper.  It works great and holds an edge through several bows.  Since that time, I have started using it in place of a hatchet for some of the finer roughing out stages.  That works good for me, especially with seasoned osage, which loves handtools more than any other wood.  I have also used it to make belly splits on osage staves, hammering the blade down through a stave from end to end.  The doggone knife is really proving to be a pretty good bow building tool for me and tougher than i expected.  I have beat on the back of the blade with a 1 1/8th lb Ball peen hammer splitting out belly splits and it is no worse for the wear.  Glock ought to be proud!   Osage bows usually only see four tools used by me - hatchet, knife, farrier's rasp and a rat tailed file for the string nocks.   

  Someone gifted me a glock knife and I have been considering doing the same thing, I would feel awful embarrassed if I got caught though.
Title: Re: Powerful wood scraper?
Post by: H Rhodes on May 14, 2014, 01:18:42 am
What else are you gonna use it for?  The blade on mine is a quarter inch thick!  Start scraping and chopping with that bad boy and you will find something it is good for.  :)  I don't do a lot of knife fighting, so a "fighting knife" just doesn't get too much use around the Rhodes' place (and that's a good thing).  Badger, if yours is like mine, you can misuse it all you want to and it will be fine.   Chopping out the side profiles and prying off little chunks of wood to get down to following the grain on character bows is one chore where the glock knife really shines.  It is just barely heavy enough to chop with and light weight enough to where you have a lot of control with how much wood you remove, and the blade is heavy enough that you can pry with it.   
Title: Re: Powerful wood scraper?
Post by: AH on May 14, 2014, 02:16:03 am
Skissors have done real well for me. That's basically all I use for fine tillering.
Title: Re: Powerful wood scraper?
Post by: Pappy on May 14, 2014, 06:36:46 am
Probably just need to sharpen the one you have,they do get dull over time.  :)
   Pappy
Title: Re: Powerful wood scraper?
Post by: PAHunter on May 14, 2014, 12:39:59 pm
@Bowman: That’s what I’m doing but I was looking for a tool somewhere in between for those tillering nights when I stay up a bit too late and want something a tad less risky than the rasp that doesn’t leave many tool marks
@Huisme: hmm that was my first tillering tool ever actually.  I may have to give it another try.
@Onebow: I think I used one of those at blackhawk’s place.  I might pick one up.
@PatB/Weylin/Pappy: Yes I dress it about once a bow.  The metal is just flexible and thin.  The shavings are super thin.  Perhaps I’m not dressing it properly. 
@spc: I had a cheap block plane and it was very difficult to get it set to cut consistently thick shavings.  I like the look of the Mora Woodcarver's Draw Knife though.
@Jawge: that’s pretty much what I do.  Just when I’m down to those last 8’’ of tiller I’d like to leave the rasp behind and go with a decent scraper, that makes a difference but is still relatively low risk.  Something between my farrier’s rasp and too thin scraper.   
@DarkSoul: I like it!  This might be the winner.
@NewIndian/toomanyknots/hrodes: I’ll try a few knives.  Yes that card scraper gets hotter than heck! 
@osageoutlaw: that seems to be a theme with great scrapers I see people using; that they are homemade. 
@PatB/livefortheoutdoors: I like the cheap scissors idea! 
@arachnid:    cool thanks for the link!  I see he set the burr with a file and screwdriver. 

All: How do you recommend setting burr on a scraper?    I have a tool that looks like a screwdriver without the head that I use.  Do any of you use a belt sander or file to get a good burr?

Thanks for all the input, this gives me a lot of great options!
Title: Re: Powerful wood scraper?
Post by: PAHunter on May 14, 2014, 12:54:02 pm
Here is my scraper and a large knife that I have that I used to debark my first stave ever but have not used since (since I got a draw knife). I'm thinking I may be able to make a good scraper out of the knife if I can give it a burr.
Title: Re: Powerful wood scraper?
Post by: TRACY on May 14, 2014, 12:55:26 pm
Put your scraper in a vice with edge up and use a metal file and file the edge flat working the file at a 45 for the length of the edge. Once new metal is exposed, use your burnishing tool and apply pressure too the new edge flat first and then angled left and right create a sharp edge for both sides. You will feel the edges roll over. May take some practice but not too hard to do.

I recently started using big band saw blade segment and they work great for scraping.


Tracy
Title: Re: Powerful wood scraper?
Post by: osage outlaw on May 14, 2014, 12:55:44 pm
Here is the how-to I followed to put a burr on my scraper

https://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,1237.0.html
Title: Re: Powerful wood scraper?
Post by: PAHunter on May 14, 2014, 01:33:24 pm
Here is the how-to I followed to put a burr on my scraper

https://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,1237.0.html

Perfect, thanks!!  Should have searched first.  :)  You know if this works I'm gonna kick myself for doing it the "wrong" way so many times. 
Title: Re: Powerful wood scraper?
Post by: George Tsoukalas on May 14, 2014, 06:50:00 pm
I use a Swedish push knife as a scraper. For years I used an old mead cleaver. Jawge
Title: Re: Powerful wood scraper?
Post by: George Tsoukalas on May 14, 2014, 06:51:20 pm
Torges has a nice tutorial in TBB1 on sharpening scrapers. Jawge
Title: Re: Powerful wood scraper?
Post by: Little John on May 18, 2014, 12:30:41 pm
For my powerful scrapers I use worn out chain saw blades. They are free, hefty to get a good hold  of with both hands and not flex under pressure, have the burr already in place, made of tough steel. You also need small scrapers but for me I also like the powerful ones. Old planner blades from a saw mill are also excellent.     Kenneth
Title: Re: Powerful wood scraper?
Post by: Badger on May 18, 2014, 01:14:41 pm
Ken, do you mean a bandsaw blade?
Title: Re: Powerful wood scraper?
Post by: autologus on May 18, 2014, 02:22:36 pm
Ken, do you mean a bandsaw blade?

I think he talking about the chain saw bar.

Grady
Title: Re: Powerful wood scraper?
Post by: Jim Davis on May 18, 2014, 02:41:54 pm
Sharpened paint scraper. I use one hand on the handle and one just over the blade.
Title: Re: Powerful wood scraper?
Post by: Del the cat on May 18, 2014, 02:49:02 pm
IMO a cabinet scraper (to give it its full name) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Card_scraper (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Card_scraper) is a finishing tool designed to remove tool marks not a stock removal tool.
Using a scraper for early tillering is like cutting your lawn with nail scissors >:D
Just 'cos a load of other people do it, doesn't make it right!
Del
Title: Re: Powerful wood scraper?
Post by: Badger on May 18, 2014, 02:54:33 pm
Ken, do you mean a bandsaw blade?

I think he talking about the chain saw bar.

Grady

  Us city boys just aint that familiar with chain saws LOL.
Title: Re: Powerful wood scraper?
Post by: H Rhodes on May 18, 2014, 09:36:36 pm
IMO a cabinet scraper (to give it its full name) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Card_scraper (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Card_scraper) is a finishing tool designed to remove tool marks not a stock removal tool.
Using a scraper for early tillering is like cutting your lawn with nail scissors >:D
Just 'cos a load of other people do it, doesn't make it right!
Del
  I agree!  I use the farrier's rasp mostly.  Rough side for hogging wood off.  Lots of tillering with the smoother side of the rasp, which I alternate with the scraper.  When I am scraping with the cabinet scraper exclusively, I am almost finished.   I am not patient  enough to cut grass with nail trimmers.
Title: Re: Powerful wood scraper?
Post by: Little John on May 18, 2014, 11:45:54 pm
Oh I am sorry, yes I mean a chain saw bar. The more worn out the better.
Title: Re: Powerful wood scraper?
Post by: lebhuntfish on May 19, 2014, 12:50:50 am
Someone mentioned a band saw blade. I use a heavier band saw blade made for cutting steel. You can normally get them for free at metal shops after they get dull. I just treat the back of it, side without teeth, like a card scraper and burnish a nice edge on it, both sides. So I can use it in both directions. Now the tool that holds the blade is special made by a friend of mine. It's pretty much just two pieces of steel with 2 bolts welded to one piece with holes drilled to match on the other one. Then two bolts welded on each end with elk horns for handles. Its awesome! You can take a large curle off or just a very fine one. The saw blades are easy to cut and a small piece is really nice for working around knots on Osage.  I also just today used a piece of the blade in a paint scraper that takes replaceable blades.

 (http://i1335.photobucket.com/albums/w668/lebhuntfish1/Mobile%20Uploads/IMAG1066_zpshsoeqoe7.jpg) (http://s1335.photobucket.com/user/lebhuntfish1/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMAG1066_zpshsoeqoe7.jpg.html)

Here are the results!
 (http://i1335.photobucket.com/albums/w668/lebhuntfish1/Mobile%20Uploads/IMAG1155_zpsxrrvzluw.jpg) (http://s1335.photobucket.com/user/lebhuntfish1/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMAG1155_zpsxrrvzluw.jpg.html)