Primitive Archer

Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: DuBois on April 16, 2014, 09:16:15 pm

Title: Any shame in backing?
Post by: DuBois on April 16, 2014, 09:16:15 pm
I have been thinking. Dangerous I know but, I have only completed 4 unbacked bows and 2 were kids bows. I find myself wondering if it is too easy to just decide to back a bow and if that is a cop out in some way?

Is it a better bowyer that can pull off more unbacked bows without relying on a backing, or is it just smart and safe bow making to back when there is a bit of doubt?

I seem to doubt myself on every bow and could easily back them all for safety.

What say you?
Title: Re: Any shame in backing?
Post by: mullet on April 16, 2014, 09:26:16 pm
If you put a lot of work in a bow and for some reason you think it might break because of a flaw in the wood, why not back it? Or if you are giving/trading and you question the integrity, or the person skills with self bows, I'd back it. To me making bows is my hobby and worrying what other people think about why I tried something they are not doing doesn't even come into the picture.

Do what you are comfortable with.
Title: Re: Any shame in backing?
Post by: JW_Halverson on April 16, 2014, 09:36:20 pm
I've backed when I had a question about bow integrity/grain runouts.  I've also backed because I just felt like having a plain looking rawhide back on the bow. 

But remember, rawhide is not kevlar.  If the grain is bad enough or the tillering far enough off, it can still blow on you!
Title: Re: Any shame in backing?
Post by: Joec123able on April 16, 2014, 09:46:15 pm
I've only backed one bow. I just prefer the raw wood and simplicity but I don't think backing bows makes you any less of a bowyer that's for sure
Title: Re: Any shame in backing?
Post by: PEARL DRUMS on April 16, 2014, 09:49:00 pm
Its a lame azz excuse for not taking the time to learn how to tiller/build a bow properly, I should know....:) Unless of course the wood/style demands it. Those are easy to pick out.
Title: Re: Any shame in backing?
Post by: adb on April 16, 2014, 09:56:04 pm
I think a 'good' bowyer will make both with ease, and know when to apply each.
Title: Re: Any shame in backing?
Post by: Badger on April 16, 2014, 10:09:16 pm
  I can build about 5 backed bows for the price of an osage self bow. I prefer self bows but my budget likes backed bows.
Title: Re: Any shame in backing?
Post by: Zion on April 16, 2014, 10:18:07 pm
I wouldn't know cuz I've never made a backed bow  ;D
Title: Re: Any shame in backing?
Post by: adb on April 16, 2014, 10:24:15 pm
I certainly don't feel any shame when I make a backed bow. If I'm making it for someone else, I usually sleep better at night.
Title: Re: Any shame in backing?
Post by: adb on April 16, 2014, 10:27:04 pm
Its a lame azz excuse for not taking the time to learn how to tiller/build a bow properly, I should know....:) Unless of course the wood/style demands it. Those are easy to pick out.

Lookin' down your nose again there mister snooty pants?? I think we should have a build off... your best selfie against my best laminate. Similar style... similar specs. Huh? You up for it? Hello? Christopher? Pwuuuck-puk-puk.
Title: Re: Any shame in backing?
Post by: lostarrow on April 16, 2014, 10:34:09 pm
   Sometimes the backing is not to hold the bow together , but to protect a softer wood from damage............................ I wish I would have backed that sweet shooting Elm  before I dropped it and dented the back. :( Fatal mistake.   

 Break a couple bows, then you will get a better picture of just how much  a piece of wood can take. Just think of it as another tool that will allow you to make a great bow  instead of firewood.
Title: Re: Any shame in backing?
Post by: adb on April 16, 2014, 10:39:56 pm
Yup... couldn't agree more. John Strunk is famous for backing his yew selfbows with rawhide for that very reason.
Title: Re: Any shame in backing?
Post by: Hrothgar on April 16, 2014, 11:07:55 pm
Shame? maybe, but not regret. I've had a couple bows break or crack that were backed with linen or burlap (not yet from rawhide) and I feel it was likely the backing that allowed the bow to break rather than explode.
Title: Re: Any shame in backing?
Post by: zenart on April 17, 2014, 12:35:10 am
Easy enough to get the protection thing. Wouldn't performance be a part of the equation? I mean, aesthetics aside, from the onset the bowyer is making key design decisions based on the bow's intended final use. From this perspective, the bow may require a back, it may not. Has nothing to do with shame unless you make it so.
Title: Re: Any shame in backing?
Post by: Pat B on April 17, 2014, 12:53:14 am
I love selfbows...but if the back is iffy because of very thin rings, knots or swirls, etc.  I'll add a rawhide backing. I don't think I would decrown a stave just to add a hard backing but I have made lots of hickory backed bows.
 Many of folks think I'm nuts anyway so I really don't care what they think about me backing a bow.  ;D
Title: Re: Any shame in backing?
Post by: DGF on April 17, 2014, 02:34:38 am
I'm just putting the final touches on my first rawhide backed bow and feel no shame. The design doesn't call for it however I put a small divot in the back while heat straightening. The rawhide gives me peace of mind and one more experience to learn from.

-Dan
Title: Re: Any shame in backing?
Post by: dbb on April 17, 2014, 05:05:29 am
The only shameful thing about a backing is if its poorly done.
On the other hand a hard backing with perfect gluelines is in my book a testament of skill and patience.
You never know what you find digging in to a stave..so if a backing is needed for some reason just do it...but do it well ;)
Title: Re: Any shame in backing?
Post by: Del the cat on April 17, 2014, 07:04:36 am
The only shame should be felt by those who have never even tried to make a bow!
Del
Title: Re: Any shame in backing?
Post by: Pappy on April 17, 2014, 07:19:08 am
No shame here,if it needs it then I back it. :) I don't do hard backs but no shame it that either,I just don't do them.  :) in fact after thinking about it their is no shame in anyone building ANY kind of bow. ;) :)
   Pappy
Title: Re: Any shame in backing?
Post by: PEARL DRUMS on April 17, 2014, 07:23:39 am
Its a lame azz excuse for not taking the time to learn how to tiller/build a bow properly, I should know....:) Unless of course the wood/style demands it. Those are easy to pick out.

Lookin' down your nose again there mister snooty pants?? I think we should have a build off... your best selfie against my best laminate. Similar style... similar specs. Huh? You up for it? Hello? Christopher? Pwuuuck-puk-puk.

Not at all Adam. Im talking about perfectly good boards or staves getting backed rather than chased clean or bought straight because its easier, or because an individual wont take the time to learn the skills needed to make that board or stave into a bow without a backing. Like I said, in the right situation or build you have to have a good backing for a bow to bow. Let me think about that build off over the summer!
Title: Re: Any shame in backing?
Post by: Gsulfridge on April 17, 2014, 07:54:44 am
Its a lame azz excuse for not taking the time to learn how to tiller/build a bow properly, I should know....:) Unless of course the wood/style demands it. Those are easy to pick out.

Lookin' down your nose again there mister snooty pants?? I think we should have a build off... your best selfie against my best laminate. Similar style... similar specs. Huh? You up for it? Hello? Christopher? Pwuuuck-puk-puk.

Not at all Adam. Im talking about perfectly good boards or staves getting backed rather than chased clean or bought straight because its easier, or because an individual wont take the time to learn the skills needed to make that board or stave into a bow without a backing. Like I said, in the right situation or build you have to have a good backing for a bow to bow. Let me think about that build off over the summer!
Fight! Fight!  Fight! >:D
Title: Re: Any shame in backing?
Post by: PEARL DRUMS on April 17, 2014, 08:48:59 am
Nope! My dad taught me when I was very young to not pick on those poor nookers up nord Greg! Plus, Adam is "ok"....I guess...
Title: Re: Any shame in backing?
Post by: missilemaster on April 17, 2014, 09:12:21 am
Its important not to get into the "fiberglass mentality" when building all wood bows, but just as important is not to get into the "anti everything having to do with fiberglass mentality". Do whatever you feel most comfortable shooting. I love self bows, but there is nothing that says you must only build self bows. Try your hand at some backed bows, you may gain insight into the magical realm of the self bow! ;)
Title: Re: Any shame in backing?
Post by: dwardo on April 17, 2014, 09:13:24 am
I use silk quite a bit as I like the look. On bows I should add  ;D

The osage I did a while back had some drying checks on the back and whilst they should not affect the life of the bow they looked ugly so I backed it. Also backed a few cherry bows just incase. I like the piece of mind that a backing gives, not so much to prevent an explosion but more to keep the shrapnel spread down.
Title: Re: Any shame in backing?
Post by: Marc St Louis on April 17, 2014, 09:47:17 am
If you started the bow as a selfbow in mind then every effort should be made to keep it that way but sometimes it just doesn't work out that way.
Title: Re: Any shame in backing?
Post by: George Tsoukalas on April 17, 2014, 10:05:27 am
Good comments above. Always a good idea to back your first few bows. As you proceed the unbacked bows will come. Jawge
Title: Re: Any shame in backing?
Post by: adb on April 17, 2014, 10:55:56 am
Nope! My dad taught me when I was very young to not pick on those poor nookers up nord Greg! Plus, Adam is "ok"....I guess...

Snif, sniff... and I thought we were friends Chris. Or should I call you Christopher? Fine. Be that way. I didn't really like you anyway.  ;D ;D ;D ;D

All kidding aside, I'd like to do a bow trade or build off with yah Chrissie. I think it would be cool!