Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: simson on April 04, 2014, 03:58:01 am
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I was busy in the shop the last weeks and made a lot of new bows since my last post. Here is a line of 5 with different design.
I found it interesting comparing the differnt tiller shapes. Hope you do also.
1. d-bow, simple straight stick, low quality yew
2. lever-bow (kinda „molly“), super nice black locust
3. working recurve, super nice dark osage
4. static recurve, slippery (?) elm: http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,46019.0.html
5. Static recurve, sinewed low quality osage: http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,45979.0.html
(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/1404%20A%20line%20of%20f-d%20pics/_DSC4905_zps09069413.jpg)
(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/1404%20A%20line%20of%20f-d%20pics/_DSC4913_zpsb893747e.jpg)
(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/1404%20A%20line%20of%20f-d%20pics/_DSC4900_zpsfbb93a8f.jpg)
(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/1404%20A%20line%20of%20f-d%20pics/_DSC4909_zps029cb9d0.jpg)
(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/1404%20A%20line%20of%20f-d%20pics/_DSC4898_zpsc7baf3d3.jpg)
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Absolutely stunning all of them. Nice to see all of the tiller shapes in one post too, will be a great reference.
Working recurves has to be my favourite.
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Good post all good examples.
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Whaaaa... makes me wanna give up ;)... they are all superb.
Del
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Beautiful stuff,you been busy. :)
Pappy
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Love the pics Sir. Very nice.
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Beautiful examples of what they SHOULD look like, Simon. 8)
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Thanks for posting these bows Simon. Should really help a person know what to aspire to. That Elm static is killer.
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very very cool, what does the front profile look like for each?
chuck
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very very cool, what does the front profile look like for each?
chuck
Ooooh, now look what you are going to start! :o
I wrote a whole post saying that they doubtless have very similar front profiles, which dissproves the "myth" (IMO) that front profile has anything to do with tiller shape (except for bows of constant thickness).
I didn't post it as I thought it would stir up controversy ::).
But seein' as how you've started ... I'll jump in. >:D
Del
(scampers off to hide in secret cat nest)
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Like everyone else said.....beautiful in all respects. Simon, ya got major talent there, bud.
rich
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Not only do you make some of the finest bows, you do it 5 at a time! :o Always love seeing your bows. Hope you post more pictures of each.
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Great job! All are nice looking bows.
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Nice
while you have them all together why not do pics of them
at rest , at brace, and front
you do good work and good pics so lets see it all together
Thanks
Guy
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Awesome bows simson, I am continually impressed with the bows you make.
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I would be proud to hunt with those bows.. The osage and elm recurves have especially nice eye appeal overall..
The tiller on all looks outstanding, I'm jealous..
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Wow Simon. That's a great group right there. I sure hope you do individual stats and pics of each. I love that elm static. Great job on all of them. I'll be saving some pics for tiller profiles.
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well i will be odd man out...since im not a great fan of recurves...im picking that molly/holmie style...working on one of em now...but the bend on yours.....breathtaking...you should submit this to PA the magazine...dont know if they have ever done anything showing the different tiller shapes.
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Hope we will see full pictures of each when you manage to fit some photography inbetween all that bow making!
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very very cool, what does the front profile look like for each?
chuck
Ooooh, now look what you are going to start! :o
I wrote a whole post saying that they doubtless have very similar front profiles, which dissproves the "myth" (IMO) that front profile has anything to do with tiller shape (except for bows of constant thickness).
I didn't post it as I thought it would stir up controversy ::).
But seein' as how you've started ... I'll jump in. >:D
Del
(scampers off to hide in secret cat nest)
I agree with you Del. it's a myth right up there with the "don't draw over your target weight".
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Man, I'd take any of em, even the low quality yeller wood. Very nice man!
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They are all great, but the more bows I see, the more I am in love with the simple D bows...that first one is calling to me! Beautiful work as always.
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I agree with 4dog, that would make an interesting article comparing and contrasting the designs.
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Outstanding! Those are beauties. Jawge
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Good examples of well tillered bows
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Great Reference! Spot on examples.
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If front profile has no bearing on tiller profile, does that mean you tiller a Mollie the same as a pyramid? Fine examples Simon. I'm hoping that more pics and stats are coming soon! Josh
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Sorry to break in to this thread but we have a new member that just posted for his first time and it's not me. ??? This new guy is "PatB.", with a period after. Pat, welcome to PA.
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Great to see the variety all together.
you should submit this to PA the magazine...dont know if they have ever done anything showing the different tiller shapes.
1+
Maybe also a little on what each tiller profile would be most likely used for (horse, blind, flight...)
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very nice work..all very good examples of their tiller and good to see together....I think many will keep this post for reference....oh where is the reflex deflex to make it complete?? :laugh:
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overrated Dragonman...overrated...lol
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Haven't thought this post gets so much interest ...
Many thanks to all of you guys!
Some of you asked for more pics. I will do so, but it will take some time.
I think it is the best to post the pics in extra threads. I have pics from bow No. 5 which I post now. The others came in a few days (I'm not at home this weekend).
Thanks again!
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Simson, Those are all beauties and I can't find a flaw in your tiller as usual...Wonderful work, and I think this would be an excellent "Sticky note" at the top of the page for reference to tiller...Enjoyed looking
Don
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If front profile has no bearing on tiller profile, does that mean you tiller a Mollie the same as a pyramid?
Of course you don't...
BUT...
The different tillering is because the outer limb is is left thick and unbending... not because it is narrow.
The curve tiller shape isn't because of the front profile.
If it was because of the front profile a Molly would have a horrible hinge at the start of the lever and be hugely whip tillered.
Thickness is self evidently 8 times more important than front profile as stiffness is proportional to the cube of thickess.
Thus you could make a bow with any front profile and still achieve any shape of curve you wanted by tillering thickness.
The Mollys and paddle bows actually prove my point rather than showing the opposite.
I could make a bow 1" wide in center tapering out to 2" wide at the nocks tillered full compass :o, if I could be bothered! >:D
Del
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The Cat must build it...The Cat must build it!!!!! >:D
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We are discussing two different things Del. I misunderstood what you were saying. Of course you can tiller it to what ever side profile you want regardless of front profile. I completely agree on that. My point was to maximize the efficiency of the bow, you need to adjust the tiller profile to match the front profile. That's why I used the comparison of the Mollie and the pyramid. They both perform great if the tiller matches the design. If you were to tiller a pyramid bow with a Mollie tiller or vice versa, they probably wouldn't work so well. Josh
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Anyhows, I've done it... :laugh:
Here:-
http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,45989.0.html (http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,45989.0.html)
@Gundoc, I wasn't having a go at you, it's just I've heard the 'front profile' thing so many times and I think it causes huge confusion and missunderstanding.
Del
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There is a bow with that profile in the Western Indian bows of TTBB.
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Some of you brought an interesting discussion:
Should the front profile match with the side profile?
IMO yes, but it is no dogma.
Here are my thoughts:
When we build a bow, we make it only that long as necessary to save limb mass. To make it as short as possible we should get all parts of the limb working (= bending). Bending wood means getting stress on belly and back. Of course it is the best to spread the stress all over the limb from tip to handle and also sideways from one edge to the other. The best design is to get equal stress on each wood cell, but the farther you come away from the neutral plane, the stress you get (increasing exponentially). In other words: the goal is to minimize set/stringfollow.
Of course you can make a bow with parallel limbs, or even with an inverse side taper as Del (http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,45989.0.html) made. You can get bending these experiments quite fine, but ….
you will get bows with very narrow parts near the handle
narrow limb causes thicker limb
thicker limb = more stress
more stress = more set in these parts
To get set here near the handle is the worst thing, because the effect on the whole bow is the strongest.
Hope I could explain that with my crude English.
Thanks all for your input!
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@Gundoc, I wasn't having a go at you, it's just I've heard the 'front profile' thing so many times and I think it causes huge confusion and missunderstanding.
Del
I never took it as such Del. If I post up something that is questionable, I welcome those questions. If I'm wrong, by all means correct me. This not only helps the beginners, but helps the community as a whole IMO. I'm here to accomplish two things, help others where I can and improve my own craft as well. I knew there was some confusion on the front profile/tiller subject. What I didn't understand is where that confusion came into play. Now I understand. Some were under the impression that the front profile created the tiller, when in actuality the tiller should be adjusted to get the most from the front profile design. Josh
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Some were under the impression that the front profile created the tiller, when in actuality the tiller should be adjusted to get the most from the front profile design
Very well put, clear and concise :)
Del
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Uooops, now I see what you have meant, Del.
Excuse my silly words. If I have read it closely ...
Thanks for clarifying this