Primitive Archer

Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: wvfknapper on December 25, 2007, 10:43:01 pm

Title: Locust Question Not Black and not honey ???
Post by: wvfknapper on December 25, 2007, 10:43:01 pm
OK, maybe some of you Eastern boys can answer this question for me......We have a locust wood here in WV that grows mostly on reclaimed strip mining sites, it grows all gnarly and twisted most of the time, kinda Short trunked like Osage,  has a tight bark and is always a yellowish green color inside, no thorns on the bark,, does anyone know what type of locust this is? Is it some type of hybrid locust they plant.

I know it's not Black Locust, we have black locust at our camp and it grows tall and as straight as poplar,  and is a brown color with a thick bark, and splits very straight,, it's not honey locust because it has no thorns.

I will try and post a picture of it tomorrow.

wvflintknapper
Title: Re: Locust Question Not Black and not honey ???
Post by: Ryano on December 25, 2007, 10:59:06 pm
Probally still black locust. It grows pretty gnarly like Osage. Ive never seen a "straight" black locust.....
Title: Re: Locust Question Not Black and not honey ???
Post by: wvfknapper on December 25, 2007, 11:17:33 pm
Ryano,,, We have a camp in the eastern part of WV and the Black Locust there is as straight as any poplar or sycamore,,, and at first when I saw one I was confused as to what it was, then when summer rolled around and the leaves came out I seen that it was locust,, it grows in abundance there and grows really big and straight, but it is a higher elevation 2500 - 3000 ft,  so that might be the reason for the straightness and size.......I had cut some when I was making bows before and it split super clean and straight.

This just looks different but as you said it could still be black locust.

Thanks

wvflintknapper

Title: Re: Locust Question Not Black and not honey ???
Post by: Hillbilly on December 26, 2007, 09:55:44 am
Yeah, black locust can grow pretty gnarly on poor soil sites. It's usually one of the first trees to colonize barren sites because being a legume, it's a nitrogen fixer and doesn't need nitrogen in the soil to grow. Does it have thorns on the twigs and locust-looking leaves?
Title: Re: Locust Question Not Black and not honey ???
Post by: tom sawyer on December 26, 2007, 09:56:47 am
Maybe Kentucky coffee tree?  I believe its also a legume like locust and has the same type of pinnately compound leaves (wife says the coffee tree has bipinnately compound leaves).

Our black lociust grows very tall and straight around here, the honey locust is shorter snd more gnarly.  The honey has the monster thorns and a reddish wood.  The black locust has the greenish brown wood.  I think they've bred the honey locust to not have thorns on the trunk.  And I understand that in some areas the black locust has thorns on the trunk though not around here.  Here thee are only thorns on juvenile branches.
Title: Re: Locust Question Not Black and not honey ???
Post by: Glenn R. on December 26, 2007, 05:37:12 pm
Here in Illinois on our farm the black locust grow as straight as lodgepole pine. Dad and I are getting ready to drop a few--can you believe I've never made a bow from black locust and have lived out here 15 years. Will take pictures when we drop the trees this winter.  Glenn.
Title: Re: Locust Question Not Black and not honey ???
Post by: wvfknapper on December 26, 2007, 06:27:34 pm
Here is a couple pictures of the Locust in question,, Not like the black locust I know to be Black Locust,  as the bark is thinner and the trees are not as tall and clear,, might be due to poor soil ?? Low elevation ?

wvflintknapper

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Title: Re: Locust Question Not Black and not honey ???
Post by: Ryan_Gill_HuntPrimitive on December 26, 2007, 06:46:32 pm
i have read of a honey locust that was used as an ornimental tree. it was some how changed so it wouldnt have thorns and then spead to  natural settings.i think disney world has some in frontier land.   but they wont let me cut any
Title: Re: Locust Question Not Black and not honey ???
Post by: carpenter374 on December 26, 2007, 07:27:10 pm
kinda looks a little like what i've been told is an acacia tree.
Title: Re: Locust Question Not Black and not honey ???
Post by: sonny on December 26, 2007, 07:36:59 pm
pics look like a black locust that my mother's neighbor cut a year or so ago.......grew so crooked that I gave up looking for even billet wood from it.
Title: Re: Locust Question Not Black and not honey ???
Post by: Coo-wah-chobee on December 26, 2007, 08:22:40 pm
...Like hillbilly an Sonny said....bob
Title: Re: Locust Question Not Black and not honey ???
Post by: wvfknapper on December 26, 2007, 08:31:24 pm
Hillbilly

Yeah it's got thorns on the limbs and right now they have little buts on the limb tips ,, it is some type of locust,, just didn't know if it was something the coal companies came up with or what,,, they appear to be planted along with some other tree that gets a worm looking fruit and also a tiny pine cone looking thing on the same tree..... I suppose they plant them to hold the ground good and because of the poor high acid soil.

wvflintknapper
Title: Re: Locust Question Not Black and not honey ???
Post by: Hillbilly on December 26, 2007, 09:27:38 pm
Yeah, looks like regular black locust (Robinia psuedoacacia-we call it yaller locust here  :) ). It's the same way here, it grows tall and straight in good soil, and scrubby and gnarly in infertile, scalded spots. Seems like I spent half of my formative years either sawing and splitting it for firewood or splitting it into fence posts. The other trees would be something in the birch family-sounds like tag alder. They have wormy-looking catkin blooms in late winter and little cone-like seed pods.

Quote
have read of a honey locust that was used as an ornimental tree. it was some how changed so it wouldnt have thorns and then spead to  natural settings.i think disney world has some in frontier land.   but they wont let me cut any

There's a whole bunch of thornless honeylocust cultivars-Shademaster is one of the popular ones that's sold a lot in the nursery trade.
Title: Re: Locust Question Not Black and not honey ???
Post by: richpierce on December 27, 2007, 01:42:58 pm
When a stand of locust is dense they are straighter.  Lone trees are more crooked as they do not have to strain upward fro the light.
Title: Re: Locust Question Not Black and not honey ???
Post by: wvfknapper on December 27, 2007, 01:55:01 pm
Rich

Thats why the locust grow taller and straighter at out camp,, the mountains are high and the valleys are deep so the trees tend to grow straighter , plust the growing season is shorter.

wvflintknapper
Title: Re: Locust Question Not Black and not honey ???
Post by: Sidewinder on December 28, 2007, 01:23:19 am
I have read that the some Indian tribes, aside from Osage, valued Black Locust as well. It looks like its naturally camoflaged and stained. As I understand it is worked like Osage in following the single ring on the back. Very cool looking wood and that particlular log looks like it has nice growth rings.  Danny
Title: Re: Locust Question Not Black and not honey ???
Post by: richpierce on December 28, 2007, 02:13:50 pm
Rich

Thats why the locust grow taller and straighter at out camp,, the mountains are high and the valleys are deep so the trees tend to grow straighter , plust the growing season is shorter.

wvflintknapper
Sounds wonderful, God's country.  Course, it's all God's country!
I have been very impressed with my first 2 locust bows.  Both came out lighter than I intended because I am new at bow building and learning how to tiller a flat bellied bow.  But the one for me is 48# at 29" and is a pretty quick shooting bow.  I found that even if the log looks straight, the grain can have a mind of its own, but can be worked well with heat.  I have one half log left that I am trying to decide how to work.  It has a branch about 3/4" in diameter right in the middle of where one limb would be, but the rest of the stave is great.
Title: Re: Locust Question Not Black and not honey ???
Post by: carpenter374 on December 28, 2007, 05:42:33 pm
Posted on: December 27, 2007, 10:34:07 PMPosted by: Sidewinder 
Insert Quote
I have read that the some Indian tribes, aside from Osage, valued Black Locust as well


Cherokee longbows were mostly d tillered black locust.
Title: Re: Locust Question Not Black and not honey ???
Post by: Sidewinder on December 28, 2007, 06:19:45 pm
I thought I had read that somewhere but didn't want to  get specific on the tribe in case I was wrong. Thanks for the info Carpenter. Danny
Title: Re: Locust Question Not Black and not honey ???
Post by: wvfknapper on December 28, 2007, 08:11:24 pm
Rich

Thats been my statement since we bought the property 15 years ago,, The mountains are very tall over 3000 ft (High for wv) Trout stream in the back yard,, 25000 acres of National forest within walking distance.

Dont get any better

wvflintknapper