Primitive Archer

Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: adb on March 13, 2014, 02:47:42 pm

Title: 'Cold Snake' static recurve
Post by: adb on March 13, 2014, 02:47:42 pm
Well... finally got her all dressed up for the Prom! Finish is dry, snakeskins are on, grip is stitched... she's ready to go dancing!

Vitals: 60" NTN static recurve, maple backed ipe, with solid maple static tips. 1.5" at the fades, tapering to 3/8" tips. I called her 'Cold Snake' because I didn't use any heat to form her sexy curves. 45#@26". Osage tips and osage lam in the grip. Western Diamondback Rattler skins. 12 strand B&W FF string. Black calf hair arrow pass.

She shoots strong and sweet, and pulls smoother than silk pajamas. No hand shock or stacking. I think I'm in love!

I hope you enjoy...
Title: Re: 'Cold Snake' static recurve
Post by: adb on March 13, 2014, 02:50:33 pm
Couple more pics, plus money shots...
Title: Re: 'Cold Snake' static recurve
Post by: Onebowonder on March 13, 2014, 03:11:53 pm
SSSsssssspecial!

OneBow
Title: Re: 'Cold Snake' static recurve
Post by: PEARL DRUMS on March 13, 2014, 03:21:24 pm
Sweet rig Adam, sweet!
Title: Re: 'Cold Snake' static recurve
Post by: 4dog on March 13, 2014, 03:27:39 pm
niiiice!!...did i say niiiiice!
Title: Re: 'Cold Snake' static recurve
Post by: Parnell on March 13, 2014, 03:39:03 pm
That turned out beautifully.
Title: Re: 'Cold Snake' static recurve
Post by: adb on March 13, 2014, 03:40:37 pm
Thanks, guys! Appreciate it. I lightened the tips about 20% from the first (third) static, and it's made a big difference in shootability. Less handshock and faster.
I really think this is the nicest bow I've made so far. I'm very proud of this one! It's so smoooooth to shoot. The weight just comes on like syrup right to full draw.
Title: Re: 'Cold Snake' static recurve
Post by: Gsulfridge on March 13, 2014, 04:04:57 pm
Very nice.
Title: Re: 'Cold Snake' static recurve
Post by: Bowman on March 13, 2014, 04:08:33 pm
That's a very nice bow with sexy curves. Yes indeed. Seems to be fast.

Like it a lot. :-)
Title: Re: 'Cold Snake' static recurve
Post by: autologus on March 13, 2014, 04:15:25 pm
Awesome looking bow, I would love to see a close up of the static curves to see how you spliced them.

Grady
Title: Re: 'Cold Snake' static recurve
Post by: IdahoMatt on March 13, 2014, 04:18:00 pm
Top notch all the way.  That is one of those bows that looks like it belongs as a photo representation of a static all wood bow.  Great job
Title: Re: 'Cold Snake' static recurve
Post by: SLIMBOB on March 13, 2014, 04:20:27 pm
That is a real beauty.  Very nice Sir.
Title: Re: 'Cold Snake' static recurve
Post by: Pat B on March 13, 2014, 04:24:17 pm
Another nice one Adam. You're really getting into these static recurves lately.  8)
Title: Re: 'Cold Snake' static recurve
Post by: adb on March 13, 2014, 04:42:02 pm
Awesome looking bow, I would love to see a close up of the static curves to see how you spliced them.

Grady

I think maybe I should do a build along on this bow? I haven't done a build along in a long time.

The static tips are kinda just big tip overlays. I cut the tips from a 2" thick slab of solid wood (maple in this case) and then refine them done to almost finished shape, and glue them to the top surface of the belly wood. After that, I taper the ends of the backing wood, where it lays over the static tip, and glue that down. I basically have 4" of gluing surface above and below the tip. Horizontal kerf splice, I think it's called. From there, same as any other... glue up grip riser and lams, cut profile and sand edges, floor tiller and Bob's your uncle.
Title: Re: 'Cold Snake' static recurve
Post by: ajooter on March 13, 2014, 04:50:10 pm
That bow just looks too perfect!!! Smooth lines and curves.  I would love to see how those tips are constructed.  Nice bow sir!
Title: Re: 'Cold Snake' static recurve
Post by: kleinpm on March 13, 2014, 05:03:32 pm
They don't get much better than that! Perfect.

Patrick
Title: Re: 'Cold Snake' static recurve
Post by: missilemaster on March 13, 2014, 05:11:48 pm
That thing is sweeeeeet!
Title: Re: 'Cold Snake' static recurve
Post by: Marc St Louis on March 13, 2014, 05:54:56 pm
Very nice Adam.  I would have to point out though that is is tillered to bend a bit too much in the outer limbs.  This shows in the fact that it has taken some set there.
Title: Re: 'Cold Snake' static recurve
Post by: Badger on March 13, 2014, 06:04:17 pm
  Beautiful bow Adam. I can see that style getting more popular. Great job on those curves. I know from experience how smooth that style shoots but would have given it just a tad more work inner limb. I would be curious if you ever test it for flight how it does. My guess is that it would do very well.
Title: Re: 'Cold Snake' static recurve
Post by: adb on March 13, 2014, 06:11:45 pm
Very nice Adam.  I would have to point out though that is is tillered to bend a bit too much in the outer limbs.  This shows in the fact that it has taken some set there.

I have to respectfully disagree.

Set? It has 1/2" of set, and that's freshly unbraced. In a short time, it settles out to none. But, I did tiller it on purpose to be doing more work in the mid to outer third. I wanted performance, and to take every advantage of the static tips.

I tillered the first static to do more work at the fades, but I wanted all I could get out of this design. I wanted the tips of this bow to be as 'whippy' as possible. Not whip tillered, but fast tips. I don't have a chronograph, but for these bows being the same draw weight, this bow is noticeably faster. It is 2" shorter, mind you.
Title: Re: 'Cold Snake' static recurve
Post by: adb on March 13, 2014, 06:18:56 pm
I think it's doing some serious bending deep in the middle/outer of each limb, but that's what I wanted. Is my thinking flawed?
Title: Re: 'Cold Snake' static recurve
Post by: Badger on March 13, 2014, 06:39:13 pm
           Looks pretty close to perfect. I think that tiller shape is the sweetest thing going. If it wouldn't have been so close to perfect I wouldn't have even mentioned what looks like just a slightly extra bend just inside the curves.
Title: Re: 'Cold Snake' static recurve
Post by: PatM on March 13, 2014, 07:30:40 pm
I think your tiller choice might have been risky but well worth taking. The slightly increased bend towards the outer limb effectively makes your short bow even shorter.
Title: Re: 'Cold Snake' static recurve
Post by: adb on March 13, 2014, 07:31:49 pm
That's what I was thinking. This bow was all about performance. Kinda the point with this design anyway, isn't it?
Title: Re: 'Cold Snake' static recurve
Post by: lesken2011 on March 13, 2014, 07:38:00 pm
I really like it, Adam. The finish is smooth, too. Oh yeah, I vote yes on the build along.
Title: Re: 'Cold Snake' static recurve
Post by: Marc St Louis on March 13, 2014, 07:44:05 pm
I am thinking as Steve is that this bow might do quite well in flight shooting. 

If your bow would have been made with anything else besides Ipe, or any other very elastic wood, the tiller shape would have been problematic.  I've seen many bows, recurves and flatbows, with such a tiller shape, yes including some of my own, chrysal and/or take excessive set over time in the outer limbs.
Title: Re: 'Cold Snake' static recurve
Post by: Badly Bent on March 13, 2014, 07:49:05 pm
 :) Most Excellent  :)
Beautiful bow, love the wood combos, the skins and the profiles. Looks fast and smooth for sure.
Title: Re: 'Cold Snake' static recurve
Post by: adb on March 13, 2014, 07:50:07 pm
I am thinking as Steve is that this bow might do quite well in flight shooting. 

If your bow would have been made with anything else besides Ipe, or any other very elastic wood, the tiller shape would have been problematic.  I've seen many bows, recurves and flatbows, with such a tiller shape, yes including some of my own, chrysal and/or take excessive set over time in the outer limbs.

I will have to respectfully disagree again  ::).

I think this would work well with osage, and a bow with this design in osage is in the works. I also think the right piece of yew would work with this design too. I'll make updates as I make progress.  ;)
Title: Re: 'Cold Snake' static recurve
Post by: JW_Halverson on March 13, 2014, 07:59:50 pm
I so appreciate the polite discourse between Adam and Marc.  THIS is why I keep coming back, people comparing experience and knowledge politely, with me being the ultimate winner because I learn something in the end!  Well, usually I learn something.

In this case we have people with some serious experience and expertise hashing it out.  Forget the popcorn, I'm feeding  the brain on this one!  Thanks guys!
Title: Re: 'Cold Snake' static recurve
Post by: Marc St Louis on March 13, 2014, 08:01:35 pm
I am thinking as Steve is that this bow might do quite well in flight shooting. 

If your bow would have been made with anything else besides Ipe, or any other very elastic wood, the tiller shape would have been problematic.  I've seen many bows, recurves and flatbows, with such a tiller shape, yes including some of my own, chrysal and/or take excessive set over time in the outer limbs.

I will have to respectfully disagree again  ::).

I think this would work well with osage, and a bow with this design in osage is in the works. I also think the right piece of yew would work with this design too. I'll make updates as I make progress.  ;)

You are well within your right to do so  ;)

If you re-read what I said though you will see that I was saying that it would work with elastic wood, such as Osage and Yew.
Title: Re: 'Cold Snake' static recurve
Post by: Trapper Rob on March 13, 2014, 09:46:28 pm
Sharp looking bow.
Title: Re: 'Cold Snake' static recurve
Post by: Arrowind on March 13, 2014, 10:07:32 pm
I ALWAYS love seeing your bows and that one is awesome!  I really like the way you did the statics and love the contrast of light and dark woods.  A build along would be sweet!
Title: Re: 'Cold Snake' static recurve
Post by: Will H on March 13, 2014, 10:11:49 pm
Nice bow, not really my cup of tea but well done none the less.  :laugh:

just kidding! That is an all around impressive work of art! Way to go adb!

Title: Re: 'Cold Snake' static recurve
Post by: snag on March 13, 2014, 10:17:10 pm
I really like the design. Really stores up energy. Well done.
Title: Re: 'Cold Snake' static recurve
Post by: soy on March 14, 2014, 12:03:11 am
yet another one of your Bows I would really like to grab a hold of and shoot! Sharp ;)
Title: Re: 'Cold Snake' static recurve
Post by: adb on March 14, 2014, 12:55:41 am
I am thinking as Steve is that this bow might do quite well in flight shooting. 

If your bow would have been made with anything else besides Ipe, or any other very elastic wood, the tiller shape would have been problematic.  I've seen many bows, recurves and flatbows, with such a tiller shape, yes including some of my own, chrysal and/or take excessive set over time in the outer limbs.

I will have to respectfully disagree again  ::).

I think this would work well with osage, and a bow with this design in osage is in the works. I also think the right piece of yew would work with this design too. I'll make updates as I make progress.  ;)

You are well within your right to do so  ;)

If you re-read what I said though you will see that I was saying that it would work with elastic wood, such as Osage and Yew.

I don't think I'm completely following your point, Marc. I don't consider ipe one of the more elastic woods, like yew. It is extremely dense and heavy, and very strong in compression.
What I really got from your message was: "If your bow would have been made with anything else besides Ipe, or any other very elastic wood, the tiller shape would have been problematic." Are you saying that the only reason this bow survived is it's made from ipe? I'm confused, cuz I don't think ipe is overly elastic.
Title: Re: 'Cold Snake' static recurve
Post by: blackhawk on March 14, 2014, 07:16:52 am
Looks like its about time for me to make another cookie cutter recurve ;)
Title: Re: 'Cold Snake' static recurve
Post by: Pappy on March 14, 2014, 07:59:23 am
Beautiful bow. ;) :)
   Pappy
Title: Re: 'Cold Snake' static recurve
Post by: Marc St Louis on March 14, 2014, 08:57:04 am
Adam
That's why I said "or any other elastic wood".

Ipe is elastic.  It's very hard to chrysal Ipe even with a Bamboo backing. 

Steve (Badger) sent me a BBI glue up years ago that had fully 1/4" Bamboo  on a 1" wide, 64" long ALB blank.  What a nightmare to tiller and lateral stability was nowhere to be seen.  The bow hardly lost any of the glued in reflex and had fantastic string tension  The Bamboo put a lot of stress on that Ipe but it did not chrysal, in fact how often do you hear about chrysals in Ipe, and that tells me it is a very elastic wood.
Title: Re: 'Cold Snake' static recurve
Post by: blackhawk on March 14, 2014, 09:23:04 am

Ipe is elastic.  It's very hard to chrysal ipe

The Bamboo put a lot of stress on that Ipe but it did not chrysal, in fact how often do you hear about chrysals in Ipe, and that tells me it is a very elastic wood.

I've had it fret on me....jus saying.....but it was early on in my bow making adventure and a couple years before I was around these forums,n wasn't very good at this(not that I am now,but better than I was then....lol),and so you could say it was my fault and not the woods....but it wasn't that badly hinged,n I've seen woods like osage have worse hinges and not fret....I wouldn't say ipe is as elastic as osage tho...but it def has plenty for bow making obviously
Title: Re: 'Cold Snake' static recurve
Post by: adb on March 14, 2014, 10:59:23 am
Adam
That's why I said "or any other elastic wood".

Ipe is elastic.  It's very hard to chrysal Ipe even with a Bamboo backing. 

Steve (Badger) sent me a BBI glue up years ago that had fully 1/4" Bamboo  on a 1" wide, 64" long ALB blank.  What a nightmare to tiller and lateral stability was nowhere to be seen.  The bow hardly lost any of the glued in reflex and had fantastic string tension  The Bamboo put a lot of stress on that Ipe but it did not chrysal, in fact how often do you hear about chrysals in Ipe, and that tells me it is a very elastic wood.

I've just never considered ipe one of the more 'elastic' woods. Dense, heavy, very strong in compression yes... but elastic has never come to mind. Yew, on the other hand, is. It just wants to bend... it's just begging for it. You can feel it itching to bend.

I did a bit of digging on wood-database.com. Elastic Modulous (with the higher number meaning the less easily a wood will bend): EM of ipe 3,200,000 lbf/in2, EM of yew 1,320,000 lbf/in2, EM of osage 1,689,000 lbf/in2. Looks to me like ipe in about 3X harder to bend than yew. That's why I'm a bit confused by your statement.

Anyway, I don't want to be a dog with a bone. Thanks for your input, it's always appreciated! I saw your maple backed HHB recurve in another thread. Nice bow!
Title: Re: 'Cold Snake' static recurve
Post by: ohma2 on March 14, 2014, 11:15:51 am
nice
Title: Re: 'Cold Snake' static recurve
Post by: JW_Halverson on March 14, 2014, 01:06:54 pm
elasticity

Houghton Mifflin

n.noun

1.The condition or property of being elastic; flexibility.


2.The property of returning to an initial form or state following deformation.


3.The degree to which this property is exhibited.




Could we then redefine this within the confines of bowmaking as to be the ability of the wood to return to the initial form without fretting?
Title: Re: 'Cold Snake' static recurve
Post by: Marc St Louis on March 14, 2014, 01:30:15 pm
Resistance to bending is not what we are talking about here but how much a wood can bend without being adversely affected.  Black Cherry has a modulus of elasticity comparable to Yew but will chrysal if you look at it wrong and Osage's numbers are high yet we all know it is very elastic.
Title: Re: 'Cold Snake' static recurve
Post by: PatM on March 14, 2014, 01:46:01 pm
I think we can definitely divide bow woods up into hard elastic woods (Ipe,Snakewood.Osage, HHB) and soft elastic woods (Yew, Elm, Juniper). Elm is probably one that spans both extremes but is generally elastic either way.
  Certainly there are hard and soft non-elastic woods as well. Brazilian Cherry, Purpleheart. Pine etc.
Title: Re: 'Cold Snake' static recurve
Post by: adb on March 14, 2014, 02:00:27 pm
I think we can definitely divide bow woods up into hard elastic woods (Ipe,Snakewood.Osage, HHB) and soft elastic woods (Yew, Elm, Juniper). Elm is probably one that spans both extremes but is generally elastic either way.
  Certainly there are hard and soft non-elastic woods as well. Brazilian Cherry, Purpleheart. Pine etc.

Good way to put it. Never thought of it in that regard.
Title: Re: 'Cold Snake' static recurve
Post by: Scottski on March 14, 2014, 08:17:47 pm
Very nice bow, I like that. I'm digging that arm guard also pretty kool.
Title: Re: 'Cold Snake' static recurve
Post by: adb on March 14, 2014, 08:39:27 pm
The arm guard was made by the very talented Cameroo. If memory serves, I traded it for a stave last summer. I think it's cool... My wife says it looks 'evil.' That's why I like it!
Title: Re: 'Cold Snake' static recurve
Post by: Danzn Bar on March 14, 2014, 10:03:26 pm
I think we can definitely divide bow woods up into hard elastic woods (Ipe,Snakewood.Osage, HHB) and soft elastic woods (Yew, Elm, Juniper). Elm is probably one that spans both extremes but is generally elastic either way.
  Certainly there are hard and soft non-elastic woods as well. Brazilian Cherry, Purpleheart. Pine etc.

Very interesting ....thanx
Title: Re: 'Cold Snake' static recurve
Post by: Wiley on March 20, 2014, 11:32:32 am
I really liked this one. Would definitely be interested to see a build along. I feel like i'll have a better understanding of the process. I followed your explanation up until the kerf splice, but a how-to with pictures would definitely inspire more confidence. Mostly curious because I want to get myself an ipe board, saw it up into bow belly sized pieces and and get some white oak or hickory to back it. I've read ipe isn't one that likes to be bent with heat but knowing how your static recurves were attached would offer some more design flexibility.
Title: Re: 'Cold Snake' static recurve
Post by: PAHunter on March 20, 2014, 04:50:04 pm
It's a work of art man!  And I bet it's fast as all heck!  Great job!!
Title: Re: 'Cold Snake' static recurve
Post by: burchett.donald on March 20, 2014, 05:46:42 pm
Work of functioning art adb, your talented buddy...Really nice 8)
                                                                                               Don
Title: Re: 'Cold Snake' static recurve
Post by: adb on March 20, 2014, 07:17:12 pm
Thanks everyone for the compliments! I really appreciate it. Sadly, this bow is off to it's new home tomorrow morning. I think I'm going to have to build one of these for myself! It's just so (in your best Scottish accent) 'drop dead sexy'.  ;D
Title: Re: 'Cold Snake' static recurve
Post by: Wiley on March 20, 2014, 07:20:21 pm
Build along on the next one?
Title: Re: 'Cold Snake' static recurve
Post by: adb on March 20, 2014, 07:22:55 pm
Maybe  ;)
Title: Re: 'Cold Snake' static recurve
Post by: Shamusrobert on March 20, 2014, 08:12:41 pm
I'm thinking I might try this design on my next lam bow, looks good.
Title: Re: 'Cold Snake' static recurve
Post by: Aaron H on April 09, 2014, 12:50:48 pm
Wow, that is beautiful. Well done
Title: Re: 'Cold Snake' static recurve
Post by: ohma2 on April 09, 2014, 01:24:41 pm
had to look again  just beautifull :-X
Title: Re: 'Cold Snake' static recurve
Post by: Jesse on April 09, 2014, 05:12:12 pm
Very nice. I know that wasn't easy.